Cherry ML, does it deserve the hate?

[kbdfr]

[…] Anything that keeps slowing you down? Program it away!

… and assign it to a dedicated key so you won't have to remember which is the layer for é, which for è, which for ê, which for…

[Muirium]

I type è by pressing Control E. It's as much of a "layer" as Shift is for typing capitals! I type é the usual Mac dead-key way—Option E then E—because I don't need it nearly as often in my typing.

You're right about more abstract things, though. I do a bunch of text manipulations with keystrokes like Control L for transform to lowercase, Shift Control 9 to enclose the selected text in brackets, and Control hyphen for replacing spaces in selected text with hyphens. Those all take memorisation. They would not if I had a great big keyboard with relegendable caps.* Personally, I prefer doing it all from the 60% block and my own memory, but sure enough that's not for everyone.

*I would still have to figure out some way to represent them, on the keys! Whatever would a "capitalise first selected word" legend look like? (For me this is Control Q.) Versus "capitalise all selected words, following standard title case rules." (Control W.) Something legible, recognisable, understandable and fitting into less than 9 mm squared?

And yes: Control is available for all this because I'm a Mac user. Command is the key used for all the regular stuff like copy and paste and firing commands from the menus. On a PC, I suppose I'd try putting the Windows key to macro use.

[mmm]

Oh that seems quite nice. One day I might notice all the redundant stuff I do manually but that can be automated with {TQZ}MK. Currently I use hyper, bound on caps lock on keyboards that has it, for special functions on my mac, which are all related to the window manager. I use control too much in the terminal.

[Muirium]

Sneaky Karabiner can leave your Control key untouched in Terminal. Running host-side, it knows what app is foreground, a power I use quite a bit with it. I’ve many app-specific shortcuts, too.

I’ve been making keyboard shortcuts on the Mac since 2003, using System Preferences to assign them to menu items. (A system which is inherently app specific.) So I’ve already assigned a lot of ⌃ Control ⌥ Option ⌘ Command combos, as they’re almost never taken. Control is fresh terrain for me, and plays nicely with and without Shift.

Many of my macros actually press Control A and E and such behind the scenes. Control T is a favourite of mine. So I added Shift Control T for that same transposition magic on words around the cursor instead of merely letters.

What can I say: I’m kinda into keyboards.

[thefarside]

Now, having given it a minor clean and some use I've come to the conclusion that I don't actually mind it? Now don't get me wrong, compared to any (MY excepted) full size switch I've used it feels significantly scratchier and lowkey unpleasant. But it doesn't feel offensive! It's entirely livable and frankly, in my opinion, nicer than most membranes I've used.

Completely agree! Much better than rubber domes and a nice little size with all the necessary keys.

The ML4100 was my first mechanical keyboard. I picked up the one below from a scrapheap that was heading to the trash.

[wobbled]

Now, having given it a minor clean and some use I've come to the conclusion that I don't actually mind it? Now don't get me wrong, compared to any (MY excepted) full size switch I've used it feels significantly scratchier and lowkey unpleasant. But it doesn't feel offensive! It's entirely livable and frankly, in my opinion, nicer than most membranes I've used.

Completely agree! Much better than rubber domes and a nice little size with all the necessary keys.

The ML4100 was my first mechanical keyboard. I picked up the one below from a scrapheap that was heading to the trash.

Not all rubber domes are made equally! And I don't just refer to Topre.
A lot of dome w/ slider switches feel much better to me than mx switches.

[thefarside]

Not all rubber domes are made equally! And I don't just refer to Topre.
A lot of dome w/ slider switches feel much better to me than mx switches.

I’ve been wanting to try Topre, along with a BTC slider. I was also considering a Focus FK-9200. Wasn’t there a poor man’s version of Topre?

[Elrick]

Wasn’t there a poor man’s version of Topre?

Sometimes you have to get the Topre outright and decide for yourself why it's a unique switch with it's typing feel.

Buying cheap copies denies you the outright feeling of using Topre from the get go, it's like pretending to have hardcore sex with your girlfriend and only kissing her instead.

Go all the way with Topre and don't accept any cheap substitutes.

[Muirium]

You managed to complete that metaphor without using "finger" as a verb?

I'd say it's more like a different partner, entirely. "Oh yeah, I know exactly what she's like, if you know what I mean…" says the young lad, fooling no one.

[The Laptop Lagger]

To bring the conversation back to Cherry ML
I just used my ML in a side by side comparison with both my unannounced new board (post coming soon!) and a "Microsoft All-in-One Media Keyboard"
And now I fully understand the existence of Cherry ML!
Their profile is nearly identical but ML is so much better than to Microsoft board that it's not even a competition!
The ML is leagues ahead of its rubber counterpart.

[Elrick]

The ML is leagues ahead of its rubber counterpart.

Clearly another person who hasn't tried a Topre keyboard .

[The Laptop Lagger]

The ML is leagues ahead of its rubber counterpart.

Clearly another person who hasn't tried a Topre keyboard .

I'm gonna quickly be "that one prick" and say I have 0 interest in Topre.
I like mechanical switches for their loud noise and their very defined click/thock. The bottoming out feeling of hitting a solid barrier is why I adore mechs.
Topre may surely not feel "mushy" like a basic rubber dome board
But what they set out to accomplish is essentially not what I am looking for in a keyboard switch.

[Muirium]

I dare say you'd be very surprised by a Realforce. It's got a lot of what you just described.

Which, incidentally, is (among the many reasons) why I prefer HHKB. The softer landing and softer sound are more my thing. I've IBM to turn to whenever I want the real noise!

[The Laptop Lagger]

I dare say you'd be very surprised by a Realforce. It's got a lot of what you just described.

Which, incidentally, is (among the many reasons) why I prefer HHKB. The softer landing and softer sound are more my thing. I've IBM to turn to whenever I want the real noise!

My last issue with Topre and their derivatives is that they're often cost prohibitive. My most expensive keyboard altogether was like €45 (excluding yet unanounced new board) for my AEKII and I don't see myself going very far beyond that budget unless it's something I am truly hunting for (ie a Blue Alps board or a Model M122 key or something along those lines)

[Bjerrk]

My most expensive keyboard altogether was like €45 (excluding yet unanounced new board)

I wish my keyboard life was interesting enough to have eagerly-awaited public announcements.

[Bjerrk]

As for Topre, my main complaint is always the same: Whenever I've tried them, they came across as a bit bland with a somewhat uninteresting tactility.
The reply is also usually the same: Yes, but the blandness grows on you after a while. Which is something I can neither prove nor deny, unless I borrow a Topre board for an extended amount of time at some point.

Edit: ... but I actually like BTC dome with slider well enough, if that's a predictor of anything.

[The Laptop Lagger]

My most expensive keyboard altogether was like €45 (excluding yet unanounced new board)

I wish my keyboard life was interesting enough to have eagerly-awaited public announcements.

I absolutely am 100% certain nobody is eagerly awaiting it. But it's funny to pretend there is at least one person going "ohh I wonder what it is"

[Muirium]

So… it’s 45 or less. It’s not Topre. And you don’t think it’s worth showing off but you do want to tease it? This is the keyboard equivalent of Wordle!

Is it a Model F AT? Mine was $25.

[Bjerrk]

Uncle Mu, Uncle Mu, please tell the story of the cheapest Beamer!

But kids, you just heard the stories of the Kishsaver and the cheap Model F AT!

[Muirium]

Four score and some or other years ago, y’see, was the day we first met Cindy…

[The Laptop Lagger]

So… it’s 45 or less. It’s not Topre. And you don’t think it’s worth showing off but you do want to tease it? This is the keyboard equivalent of Wordle!

Is it a Model F AT? Mine was $25.

Specifically 45 or more! But also darn you for getting an F AT at $25 I have never been this jealous!

[The Laptop Lagger]

I'll go make some pics and wirte a new post! Expect it to be entirely boring.

[Go-Kart]

I absolutely am 100% certain nobody is eagerly awaiting it. But it's funny to pretend there is at least one person going "ohh I wonder what it is"

I'm in.