Purchased a Realforce 87U. It's ok, but rather underwhelming

[Muirium]

I actually like the screws. They give that perestroika look to the keyboard. Aaanyway I'm trying to build myself a CNC... ('nuf said)

Yes, the exposed screw design is my preference too. (Weren't you working on another version that had them concealed?)

As for the potential CNC … muah-ha-ha! … I've some ideas if you're interested.

[matt3o]

Yes, the exposed screw design is my preference too. (Weren't you working on another version that had them concealed?)

yeah it was 100% acrylic though, not sure I like it...

As for the potential CNC … muah-ha-ha! … I've some ideas if you're interested.

speak your mind! (maybe in a new thread? we threadcrapped this quite a bit )

[abhibeckert]

I actually like the screws. They give that perestroika look to the keyboard.

Fair enough. I don't care what something looks like, my only interest is functional design. Usually if you take away everything designed to make it look good and are left with the minimum necessary components, it still looks pretty good.

I like glue because it's smaller and lighter. Not only are screws big and heavy, but they need something big and heavy to screw into.

[ShivaYash]

Bump alert... I have the same disease Hypersphere speak of, and can't stop reading keyboard reviews. I type this on my new 87u with 55 gram switches. Its great, I really really love it, but I think my quest for the perfect board sadly ended some time ago. The HHKB Pro 2 really just works, especially on the Mac. It feels nicer than the RF I have in front of me right now. Its smaller too. But as others have said, its just a matter of getting use to things. I will persevere with this new investment of mine for some time to come, before giving the final verdict. And I have a SSK en route. Its a tough life.

[Hypersphere]

Bump alert... I have the same disease Hypersphere speak of, and can't stop reading keyboard reviews. I type this on my new 87u with 55 gram switches. Its great, I really really love it, but I think my quest for the perfect board sadly ended some time ago. The HHKB Pro 2 really just works, especially on the Mac. It feels nicer than the RF I have in front of me right now. Its smaller too. But as others have said, its just a matter of getting use to things. I will persevere with this new investment of mine for some time to come, before giving the final verdict. And I have a SSK en route. Its a tough life.

When Trev started this and another thread on his quest for the perfect keyboard, he thought he had found it in the HHKB Pro 2, but he ultimately went back to the RF 87u variable and as far as I know settled on the larger keyboard.

As for me, I continue to go back and forth. I much prefer the 60% form factor, layout, and attendant symmetry of the HHKB Pro 2, but I also like the more solid sound and feel of the RF 87u and the heavier switches in the RF 87u 55g.

What is it about the feel of the HHKB that you prefer to the RF? Sometimes I prefer the HHKB feel as well -- it seems sprightlier than the RF, and perhaps owing to its case-mounted switches, it seems to cushion my keystrokes, whereas the RF with its plate-mounted switches feels unyielding.

[ShivaYash]

I've just switched back the HHKB Pro 2 to write this reply, I am finding the 55 grams rather heavy on my dainty fingers. Its all just a matter of getting use to something new. The RF definitely feels more solid but sometimes this isn't always a positive. It is almost as if getting a new Topre board has made me realise just how good the HHKB Pro 2 is. It wasn't love at first sight though. I hated it for months and tried several times to part with it, but when it received interest, I had a change of heart - read weakness. It took months of trialling to finally fall for the little beast. For me, I think the fact its customised for the Mac and has keys to reflect this is a winner. The size is wonderful, I think this will be my new travel board, but that means getting a case for it. More money and more stuff to house. My previous travel board was the Poker II with browns, but since the additional of a metal case, I think that is more just a novelty item now. Its weight does put me off a little.

It isn't just one thing about the HHKB that wins for me however one thing I can say, I try to replicate the HHKB layout on all my other boards, so far as possible. This I think speaks volumes.

When I was starting out, I made the mistake of buying two ISO units. Its not a big deal, I am in the UK after all, but the HHKB hit my sweet spot, and I find ISO annoying and its not possible to get the backslash to delete, because it does not exist on the ISO. Ideally I'd like to swap these for ANSI variants but having just parted with a bucket full of cash in the past month alone, I am just trying to avoid any more expenses of this nature.

Here is my board of choice, with its new key caps.

IMG_1043.jpg (679.01 KiB) Viewed 3487 times

Bump alert... I have the same disease Hypersphere speak of, and can't stop reading keyboard reviews. I type this on my new 87u with 55 gram switches. Its great, I really really love it, but I think my quest for the perfect board sadly ended some time ago. The HHKB Pro 2 really just works, especially on the Mac. It feels nicer than the RF I have in front of me right now. Its smaller too. But as others have said, its just a matter of getting use to things. I will persevere with this new investment of mine for some time to come, before giving the final verdict. And I have a SSK en route. Its a tough life.

When Trev started this and another thread on his quest for the perfect keyboard, he thought he had found it in the HHKB Pro 2, but he ultimately went back to the RF 87u variable and as far as I know settled on the larger keyboard.

As for me, I continue to go back and forth. I much prefer the 60% form factor, layout, and attendant symmetry of the HHKB Pro 2, but I also like the more solid sound and feel of the RF 87u and the heavier switches in the RF 87u 55g.

What is it about the feel of the HHKB that you prefer to the RF? Sometimes I prefer the HHKB feel as well -- it seems sprightlier than the RF, and perhaps owing to its case-mounted switches, it seems to cushion my keystrokes, whereas the RF with its plate-mounted switches feels unyielding.

[ShivaYash]

PS. I should say the key caps are not meant to make it look pretty, they are out of necessity. The black on black was annoying me so much so, that I nearly threw the whole thing out of the window one evening when trying to input some numbers. I touch type at a reasonable rate, varying between 60-80 wpm, but the numbers were just impossible to see. I'm not sure about the white on black but I have no other option. The black diamond is useful to me as I do mainly editing work on MS Word.

[Hypersphere]

I use a similar color scheme on my black RF and black HHKB. However, I leave the modifiers and spacebar black and change the alpha and number keys to white or blue. I also use white or blue for the cursor diamond, which has become second nature to me now, but I need the legends for the non-cursor functions of these keys.

BTW, speaking of blue, there are other keycap options for the RF and HHKB. There is a Korean vendor on eBay (widebasket) who sells Topre keycap sets. They fit both, the RF and the HHKB. I like the blue ones. They are pricey at 150 USD shipped, but Topre dye-sub PBT caps are exquisite.

Like you, I also remap my non-HH keyboards to something as close as possible to the Mac/HHKB layout. The HHKB Pro 2 has had a profound influence on my typing habits.

[HzFaq]

Agree with you about the black on black caps, I couldn't use my HHKB for exactly the same reason until I got the black on white caps.

Still, I'm at just over a year of ownership (6-7 months with caps I can see now) and I'm still not a massive fan and don't often use it for more than a few days at a time and never for any serious work.

I think the big problem I have with the HHKB isn't a problem with the board itself, but that I have been over the last 2 years or so developing my own FN layer that is catered specifically to my habits and working requirements which makes it very difficult to use another physical/FN layout.

On all my custom boards, I have arrows/nav keys on/around the home row, accessed using what would normally be the control keys - keys that don't exist on the HHKB...My virtual numpad is accessed using the ISO key next to left shift which also doesn't exist. I've got a replacement controller from hasu to see if porting my FN layer(s) over (somehow, seeings as 3 physical keys are missing), makes any difference, but at what point does it stop being a HHKB and start being Hz's 60% Topre board.

I do like the control and backspace placement (not that I often use the physical backspace key, FN+spacebar is my preference), split right shift and split "backspace" though. It's one of those boards that I'm really hesitant to get rid of and really do feel like I should give more of a chance, but I've ruined myself by becoming too dependant on my own layout now!

[ShivaYash]

I use a similar color scheme on my black RF and black HHKB. However, I leave the modifiers and spacebar black and change the alpha and number keys to white or blue. I also use white or blue for the cursor diamond, which has become second nature to me now, but I need the legends for the non-cursor functions of these keys.

BTW, speaking of blue, there are other keycap options for the RF and HHKB. There is a Korean vendor on eBay (widebasket) who sells Topre keycap sets. They fit both, the RF and the HHKB. I like the blue ones. They are pricey at 150 USD shipped, but Topre dye-sub PBT caps are exquisite.

Like you, I also remap my non-HH keyboards to something as close as possible to the Mac/HHKB layout. The HHKB Pro 2 has had a profound influence on my typing habits.

Could you post a photo please? Perhaps this will be better for me too.

[Hypersphere]

@ShivaYash: You can take a look at the blue Topre set on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/REALFORCE-Key-C ... 418519d4f0

My RF with the blue set is in the other office and I don't have pics. When I get a moment, I will bring the camera and post a pic.

Caps from the Topre sets fit either the HHKB Pro 2 or RF 87u/104u, just as selected caps from the HHKB Pro 2 sets available from EK fit any of these keyboards.

[ShivaYash]

@ShivaYash: You can take a look at the blue Topre set on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/REALFORCE-Key-C ... 418519d4f0

My RF with the blue set is in the other office and I don't have pics. When I get a moment, I will bring the camera and post a pic.

Caps from the Topre sets fit either the HHKB Pro 2 or RF 87u/104u, just as selected caps from the HHKB Pro 2 sets available from EK fit any of these keyboards.

Look forward to it HS.

[Hypersphere]

@ShivaYash: I wasn't sure if you were more interested in seeing the RF 87ub 55 or the HHKB Pro 2 with blue keycaps, but here is a shot of my HHKB Pro 2 with blue alphanumeric keycaps. I added a blank red Esc, and a blank red key on the top right for symmetry. In addition, I like to set off the Fn key and so I used a red down arrow key, which has the correct profile for Fn. The surrounding modifiers including the spacebar are dark gray with black legends. In the usual dim light of my office, the black on dark gray looks like blank black, which is my preference for modifiers.

HHKB_Blue1.jpg (935.95 KiB) Viewed 3267 times

I've done essentially the same thing with my RF keyboards. In that case, I've left the top navigation keys in black, but I used blue for the arrow keys to match the alphanumeric keys and to make the arrow keys easy to find.

Whether I use white or blue, I prefer the keycaps from the Topre sets for the RF and HHKB, because they lack the auxiliary front-printed legends and therefore look less busy than the stock keycaps.

[Lunatique]

Agree with you about the black on black caps, I couldn't use my HHKB for exactly the same reason until I got the black on white caps.

Still, I'm at just over a year of ownership (6-7 months with caps I can see now) and I'm still not a massive fan and don't often use it for more than a few days at a time and never for any serious work.

I think the big problem I have with the HHKB isn't a problem with the board itself, but that I have been over the last 2 years or so developing my own FN layer that is catered specifically to my habits and working requirements which makes it very difficult to use another physical/FN layout.

On all my custom boards, I have arrows/nav keys on/around the home row, accessed using what would normally be the control keys - keys that don't exist on the HHKB...My virtual numpad is accessed using the ISO key next to left shift which also doesn't exist. I've got a replacement controller from hasu to see if porting my FN layer(s) over (somehow, seeings as 3 physical keys are missing), makes any difference, but at what point does it stop being a HHKB and start being Hz's 60% Topre board.

I do like the control and backspace placement (not that I often use the physical backspace key, FN+spacebar is my preference), split right shift and split "backspace" though. It's one of those boards that I'm really hesitant to get rid of and really do feel like I should give more of a chance, but I've ruined myself by becoming too dependant on my own layout now!

Based on what you described, you might be interested in the SpaceFN AHK script: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=51069.0

It's also available for TMK firmware.

I've customized it for my own use, with lots of navigation shortcuts at/around the homerow, and I've posted the customized script (and layout screenshot) here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=67 ... msg1588035

I'm going to be experimenting with changing the Fn key to Alt instead of spacebar, since I've been getting accidental activations with the spacebar.

[ShivaYash]

@ShivaYash: You can take a look at the blue Topre set on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/REALFORCE-Key-C ... 418519d4f0

My RF with the blue set is in the other office and I don't have pics. When I get a moment, I will bring the camera and post a pic.

Caps from the Topre sets fit either the HHKB Pro 2 or RF 87u/104u, just as selected caps from the HHKB Pro 2 sets available from EK fit any of these keyboards.

$150?? Wtf!?!

[Lunatique]

@ShivaYash: You can take a look at the blue Topre set on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/REALFORCE-Key-C ... 418519d4f0

My RF with the blue set is in the other office and I don't have pics. When I get a moment, I will bring the camera and post a pic.

Caps from the Topre sets fit either the HHKB Pro 2 or RF 87u/104u, just as selected caps from the HHKB Pro 2 sets available from EK fit any of these keyboards.

$150?? Wtf!?!

It's just a demand vs supply thing. Topre stopped making the keycap sets, so what's still available out there is very limited in supply.

Topre-related products tends to be overpriced due to being less popular than the much more ubiquitous Cherry MX stuff.

BTW, the fact that a RealForce numeric keypad costs half of a TKL RealForce keyboard, also boggles the mind.

[Hypersphere]

Yes, $150 seems a lot for a set of keycaps. However, Topre keycaps are difficult to find, and the genuine Topre sets are the nicest dye-sub PBT caps I have ever seen. Shipping is also included in the price. There are 104 caps in the set, so this works out to about $1.44 per cap (although, granted, some people only need 60 for their HHKB or 87 for their RF 87u). I do wish the sets were selling for less, but I can understand the high price.