Chicony KB-5191 (MX Blue). Some thoughts.

[deeyay]

I have recently acquired a Chicony KB-5191 from user davkol from this forum (he still has at a few left for sale i believe).

My initial impressions about this keyboard is good. The MX Blue switches in it differs a little in feel from my three other modern keyboards with the same switches. The difference is mainly on the release of the keys. While modern MX Blues tend to "get stuck" pretty noticeable halfway where the activation point is when releasing a key slowly, these older switches does not seem to get stuck at all in comparison. They travel back up a lot more easily which adds to a smoother feel.

I also think that they feel a little bit lighter overall to activate them when typing and as a result they feel a bit smoother and easier to type on. The click seems more low pithed also and is not as disturbing as on my newer ones that have a much higher pitch when typing on them.

As for the keyboard itself. It does feel a little lighter and more cheap than my newer boards. The PCB seems very soft and if you press the keys hard you can see the whole PCB bend around the key that you press. It also feels more plastic than newer ones with metal plate but I still think it sounds good when typing on it. It has that typewriter kind of feel to it.

The worst part of this keyboard is the small backspace key. It takes some getting used to and in the beginning I hit the wrong key pretty often. However after just 24 hours I seem to have adapted quite well to it and it will only go better from now on. I do not really have a problem with the big ass enter key. The spacebar made a bit too much noise for my taste so I lubed it and now it is much more quiet.

All in all the typing experience on this keyboard is in fact excellent thanks to the overall smooth feel of the keyboard and the lower pitched audible feedback. Another thing that I really appreciate with this keyboard is that it comes with a plastic roof like the Filco boards. This is excellent as I usually put it on at nights to make the keyboard more dust free.

[Muirium]

If you seldom type backslash and rarely make mistakes, Big Ass Enter is for you.

Anyone?

[deeyay]

The main difference for me with the big ass enter that use scandinavian layout is that the * and ' signs are moved from beside the enter key. They now sit on the same key beside the backspace instead which is thanks to the small backspace key otherwise I don't know how I would access them. I use them booth pretty often.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

If you seldom type backslash and rarely make mistakes, Big Ass Enter is for you.

Anyone?

Depends on your operating system and work/hobbies — backslash is used a lot in Windows, and it's also used a fair amount in programming and UNIX/Linux command lines. You'll also need it if you make use of regular expressions (which I do, a lot). I find it to be a pretty important key and don't care for it being relocated.

For most people, it's the key they go looking for when you say "slash" and vice versa …

[Muirium]

I know, I assume most people here are coders of various persuasions! (Even I use regex a bit and know of escape characters.) That's why I asked it in the negative.

Big Ass Enter is one of the strangest things in layouts. Didn't IBM invent it with the AT? Or inflict it, I should say! Losing a whole key's worth by combining ANSI and ISO Return keys was plumb daft. You'd think that Big Ass was the primordial ancestor of both ANSI and ISO, but it was a newcomer, from what I know. IBM created it, and mercifully killed it with the Model M. Though many others took their sweet time to follow.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

There are more styles of cursor keys than enter keys, and I drew lots of diagrams of them:

[wiki]Cursor keys[/wiki]

Both cursor keys and enter/return keys could be made the subject of research topics, along the lines of [wiki]Keyboards and switches by year[/wiki] — cursor keys by keyboard and year and enter/return keys by keyboard and year.

A lot of interesting discoveries are made, but they're always constrained to topics that get forgotten.

[Findecanor]

IBM didn't invent "Big-Ass Enter". It existed before on several terminal keyboards, for instance.

I suspect that it could have been evolved from the vertical Return key. Some older keyboards have only one 1×1 key to the right of P and a larger rectangular Return key spanning two rows. To steal space from the Return key you would have to make it backwards-L shaped.

[jacobolus]

There were all kinds of weird enter key shapes in the 70s and 80s. But IBM is absolutely responsible for the popularity of the specific “bigass enter” shape, after putting it in the PC/AT keyboard.

People got used to the AT keyboard or various same-layout clones, and then many keyboard vendors kept using the same shape enter key even after IBM moved on with their 101-key “Enhanced Keyboard” design.

There are more styles of cursor keys than enter keys, and I drew lots of diagrams of them: [wiki]Cursor keys[/wiki]

There have been at least 20 different shapes for enter keys, over the years.

[jacobolus]

To the OP: yeah, Chicony boards used some okay switches, but their cases and keycaps are truly awful. I found with a KB-5181 (with clicky SMK switches) that when I replaced the keycaps with thick PBT caps and then pulled the whole keyboard out of its case and just set it on a wooden plank instead, the overall feel was much improved.

[deeyay]

To the OP: yeah, Chicony boards used some okay switches, but their cases and keycaps are truly awful. I found with a KB-5181 (with clicky SMK switches) that when I replaced the keycaps with thick PBT caps and then pulled the whole keyboard out of its case and just set it on a wooden plank instead, the overall feel was much improved.

I have already removed the bottom part of the plastic case earlier today and glued the PCB together with the top part of the case. That improved the feel of the keyboard and it sounds better. It also got a bit more low profile. However I also glued the legs on the top part of the case and now the angle feels more perfect than it was with the legs either in or out while the bottom of the case was used.

[deeyay]

Here's a picture:

[Daniel Beardsmore]

There have been at least 20 different shapes for enter keys, over the years.

Which won't ever get documented, naturally.

[jacobolus]

There have been at least 20 different shapes for enter keys, over the years.

Which won't ever get documented, naturally.

I’ll try to start grabbing screencaps whenever I see a weird one on ebay from now on.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

There's tons of material in topics, but trying to remember what was posted where and when is virtually impossible. After a few years of this extended game of Chinese whispers, you have no idea what to believe, as people pass on just as many mistakes as they do correctly-remembered facts. Hoarding screenshots on your hard drive won't help.

[davkol]

Thanks.

Have you considered remapping Caps Lock to Backspace Colemak style?

[cherry-jade]

I got one KB-5181 1989. Which with MX white.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Vintage Cherry MX White Type B—the one that's the same as Cherry MX Blue—was supposedly introduced in 1989. The wiki is still pretty vague on such matters and offers very little evidence to support any claims. It does note "A few early OEM keyboards such as various Chicony keyboards have also been using Cherry whites" but doesn't say which switch (type A or B) — your find is the first time I've seen any suggestion that this claim can be verified.

I assume that your KB-5181 uses the Type B MX White, that feels and sounds the same as Cherry MX Blue? (The Type A feels a lot stiffer.)

[deeyay]

Thanks.

Have you considered remapping Caps Lock to Backspace Colemak style?

Ah thank you I have done that before with another keyboard but kind of forgot about that whole idea. Might be a better solution in the long run. Thanks for reminding me. Though I must say I have adapted quite well to the 1x1 backspace already.

[cherry-jade]

Vintage Cherry MX White Type B—the one that's the same as Cherry MX Blue—was supposedly introduced in 1989. The wiki is still pretty vague on such matters and offers very little evidence to support any claims. It does note "A few early OEM keyboards such as various Chicony keyboards have also been using Cherry whites" but doesn't say which switch (type A or B) — your find is the first time I've seen any suggestion that this claim can be verified.

I assume that your KB-5181 uses the Type B MX White, that feels and sounds the same as Cherry MX Blue? (The Type A feels a lot stiffer.)

Yes.Mine is much more like the mX blue.Not so stiff.

[deeyay]

At the moment this is really my prefered board with MX Blues of the ones I have. The smoothness of the switches is really nice and they do feel a bit lighter than my other Blues so it feels like I can type a little bit faster on it also without as much effort in the finger movements.

Also I have a thing for older beige colored keyboards specially without the windows keys.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

cherry-jade: Maybe you should be our Cherry MX researcher — I don't think we have one at the moment :)

[deeyay]

Hmm these switches must be several grams lighter to activate than my newer ones. The difference is really noticeable now when I go back to my newer ones. You can easlily feel that they are "heavier" and more stiff.

[Ander]

I realize this is an old thread—and ridicule me as you will about that—but I had to add that anyone considering buying one of these vintage boards, assuming it's in decent shape, should not hesitate.

No, it's not as heavy as many vintage boards, but this can actually be an advantage. Think about it: With heavy boards, all you feel is the switches; the board itself is immobile and inert. With lighter boards like the KB-5191 (one of which I'm typing on as we speak, BTW), the board itself is part of the experience, in sound and feeling. This, IMHO, is swell.

Also, vintage MX Blues are sublime. They're not in-your-face clicky, but nonetheless are the archetype mechanical switch, the one many of us seem to remember from our computing youths.

So don't let these intimations of shoddy build quality dissuade you. Get a Chicony KB-5191 with vintage MX Blues, and be a witness to keyboard history. You won't be sorry. (Besides, most of you are Europeans—so if you are sorry, you can just break out some good wine and cheese and be philosophical about it.)

And yes, I admit I also posted this so I could italicize several words. It happens to the best of us. Ça marche.

[rich1051414]

Man! Look at that white. I am going to have to give my KB-5191 another retrobright treatment...

PS: Mine does not have blues, neither do most(?). I think Chryos had one with Mitsumi yellows, and mine has Cherry MX compatible Futaba MA clicky switches.

[amospalla]

I own this keyboard and is the most silent Cherry MX one I've used, has very silent space bar and enter keys. Combined with vintage black stems this board is incredibly silent and soft.