Blocked by Cherry G80-2551 Ebay seller

[derzemel]

There is a Cherry G80-2551 (one of the most attractive keyboards ever made) on ebay and I wanted to place a bid on it:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cherry-PC-Tasta ... kette&rd=1

I sent a mail to the seller and asked him if he ships to Romania (initially it was not clearly specified on the item's page). He said that he does not deliver outside Germany.

Ok, no problem I have a German friend that can proxy for me and he gave me his Berlin address, which I then set as my Primary Shipping Address. I then placed a bid on the keyboard (fuck, I would have paid 50Euro for it).

The next day, the seller canceled my bid with this comment: Käufer mit Lieferadresse ausserhalb Deutschland (Buyer with a delivery address outside Germany).

WHAT!!!!! ... MY PRIMARY ADDRESS IS IN GERMANY, BERLIN, IN THE SAME CITY AS THE SELLER!!!!!!!

I then sent 2 messages to the seller (2 days apart, last one on Monday) telling him in German and in English that my primary shipping address is in Berlin, Germany (I even provided the address) and I asked him if I can bid again. He replied yesterday with one word "sorry"

Ok, I assumed it would be ok to bid and about 5 hours ago, when I wanted to do it again, I received and message that "the seller is not accepting bids or offers from you at this time."

WHAT!!!!!! WHYYYYYYYYY!!!!

I tried to find out the reason, sent a message again to the seller (but with the way he has been answering, I do not see any chance of receiving anything before the bid ends), searched information on the net, nothing...

I also called my friend to ask him to bid for me, but he gets home after the bid ends.

I finally decided to call Ebay support to as them what I should do. They did not have any solution either to "unblock" me before the bid ends also they dod not see any reason entered on why the selled has blocked me (which seems to be against the rules)... so I decided to report the seller.

Anyway, if any of you, Germans around here get it, enjoy it and love it and cherish it... I'm just going to crawl into a corner now and cry myself to sleep.

P.S.: sorry if this irritated any of you, I just felt the need to vent.

[scottc]

I wanted to buy that board too... it's probably going to be too expensive by the time the auction ends, if that's any consolation

[Redmaus]

Not German, so I can't help you, but bumping thread so someone German can see!

[derzemel]

I wanted to buy that board too... it's probably going to be too expensive by the time the auction ends, if that's any consolation

Not German, so I can't help you, but bumping thread so someone German can see!

Thank you!

I have given up on trying to get it... I'll just keep searching and hoping that another one will show up someday, or a bird will shit on my head and I'll get lucky (Romanian saying) and find one in a flea market

[Sigmoid]

I think he just hates Romanians (or Eastern Europeans in general). The asshole.

EDIT: kbdfr is right of course that this might be too aggressive. It wasn't meant as an attack on the nationality of the seller, more against his behavior - which might be explained as kbdfr mentioned, but it still kind of smells of a "Romanian = flake or scammer" mindset.

[derzemel]

I think he just hates Romanians (or Eastern Europeans in general). The asshole.

I would have appreciated if he would have given me a reason.

I do not care if he dreams he still lives in 1942 and he sleeps with one arm stretched out in front, at least he should have told me something more than "sorry"

[seebart]

I think he just hates Romanians (or Eastern Europeans in general). The asshole.

Could be the case. I'd contract eBay and report the problem.

[XMIT]

We've got a bunch of Germans here, could one of them proxy for you?

[Bitsquid]

I could buy it for you guys. But it's at 50€ allready. Wouldn't pay that much myself so I'm a bit uneasy to bid my own money on it to proxy it away later.

[derzemel]

I could buy it for you guys. But it's at 50€ allready. Wouldn't pay that much myself so I'm a bit uneasy to bid my own money on it to proxy it away later.

Thank you man but I would not want anyone who does not know me personally to use his/hers money for me

Anyway, 50E would have been my limit as well, but my main issue is that i have been blocked without a clear reason.

[kbdfr]

Folks,

It would be nice if you (I mean those who did) could refrain from publishing such quite hateful postings
assuming the seller is an asshole or he doesn't like Romanians or he "sleeps with one arm stretched out in front".

Of course you're bothered, but you have no idea what his reason for blocking you really is.
I would think he just wants to make sure he's not going to get into trouble with his sale,
and the easiest way is to block bidders who may (in his eyes) cause such trouble,
like people from other countries with zero feedback suddenly claiming to have a German shipping address
(he cannot see the bidders' addresses, after all).

To put things clear: I'm not defending "fellow Germans", being a a foreigner here myself,
and I have nothing to do whatsoever with the seller.

But suggesting Germans are nazis as soon as one has problems with them
is exactly what you are accusing him of: pure xenophobia.

Edit: added the passage in blue letters

[seebart]

Very well said kbdfr. No way of knowing why exactly he's blocking.

[derzemel]

Folks,

It would be nice if you (I mean those who did) could refrain from publishing such quite hateful postings
assuming the seller is an asshole or he doesn't like Romanians or he "sleeps with one arm stretched out in front".

Of course you're bothered, but you have no idea what his reason for blocking you really is.
I would think he just wants to make sure he's not going to get into trouble with his sale,
and the easiest way is to block bidders who may (in his eyes) cause such trouble,
like people from other countries suddenly claiming to have a German shipping address
(he cannot see the bidders' addresses, after all).

To put things clear: I'm not defending "fellow Germans", being a a foreigner here myself,
and I have nothing to do whatsoever with the seller.

But suggesting Germans are nazis as soon as one has problems with them
is exactly what you are accusing him of: pure xenophobia.

I am verry sorry for that comment!
I was too nervous and fed up with the fact the I keep hitting the "he is a Romanian (e.g. thief, stinky, gipsy, etc)" wall in almost every interaction I have with foreigners.

Once again, I am verry sorry

[XMIT]

FWIW one of the best math teachers I had in high school was Romanian.

[kbdfr]

[…] I am verry sorry

Thank you for reflecting on that.
Obviously there are stereotypes,
and the best way to get rid of them is to be aware of them and fight them

Sorry you didn't get the 2551, by the way.

[Bitsquid]

FWIW one of the best math teachers I had in high school was Romanian.

And sadly the news-media won't make a story about awesome romanian math teachers but plenty stories about romanians as illicity workers, beggers and scammers. If the seller is linking being romanian to potential trouble and won't thus allow derzemel to make a bid on his auction that doesn't make him a Nazi. But the fact remains that Derzemel was locked out of bidding for nothing he'd done wrong. For a reason that is very likely connected to common prejudices and trust issues towards romanians which is pretty much racial discrimination if you ask me. So, from my point of view he's got all reason to be frustrated and angry and that was how I read his post - not being hateful.

[kbdfr]

FWIW one of the best math teachers I had in high school was Romanian.

And sadly the news-media won't make a story about awesome romanian math teachers but plenty stories about romanians as illicity workers, beggers and scammers. If the seller is linking being romanian to potential trouble and won't thus allow derzemel to make a bid on his auction that doesn't make him a Nazi. But the fact remains that Derzemel was locked out of bidding for nothing he'd done wrong. For a reason that is very likely connected to common prejudices and trust issues towards romanians which is pretty much racial discrimination if you ask me. So, from my point of view he's got all reason to be frustrated and angry and that was how I read his post - not being hateful.

"very likely"? You're just assuming.

Imagine you are selling a nice rare keyboard on eBay with no shipping option outside of your country,
someone with zero feedback asks if you would ship to his country, you say no.
And then he contacts you again and says he now suddenly has a shipping address in your country.
How would you react?
After all, there are many other bidders and you know you are not going to sell under price.
So why take the risk of letting someone with no prior eBay transaction bid and perhaps not pay in the end,
or try to discuss the price once the sale has completed,
or insist on you sending the keyboard in his country after all?
Things would perhaps have been different if he didn't have zero feedback,
but well, why shouldn't I assume when you peremptorily do?

[XMIT]

Yeah I'm with kbdfr here, zero feedback is the key. Sorry. I sold a moderately valuable item to an overseas fellow earlier this year and it was a miserable transaction. Low feedback, didn't pay on time, asked me to lie on Customs forms (against eBay policies if nothing else). We're all friends here on DT but eBay is not so much like that. Sellers are already annoyed at the 10% gouge on sales and potentially sketchy sellers just make things worse.

I too am sorry you didn't get this keyboard. I don't have any like it. I do have some Computer Lab International 122 key boards with vintage MX Blacks. I'm an equal opportunity seller: you give me money, I give you keyboard. (No keyboards are currently for sale.)

[derzemel]

(No keyboards are currently for sale.)

I was getting excited there for a moment :-p

Sorry to hear that you had a bad experience with a buyer! I hope it never happens again.

I think I understand the feedback issue, it's almost like getting the fist job: you need x years of experience to get this student/graduate entry level job

[XMIT]

Yeah it's a bootstrapping problem. Find a couple of items for 0.99 EUR shipped to buy some feedback.

[Bitsquid]

Somehow I missed that zero experience detail. Yeah, I can see where that's making sellers wary. Sold a GPU just 2 weeks ago. Highest bidder contacts me 2h before bidding ends begging me to cancel his bid because he happened to have bought a different GPU in the meanwhile and wouldn't be able to afford a second one. Well... when I canceled his bid all bids only he outbid were canceled as well and the auction was back at 10% of the items worth. It was a zero-experience bidder.

[kbdfr]

Somehow I missed that zero experience detail. Yeah, I can see where that's making sellers wary. Sold a GPU just 2 weeks ago. Highest bidder contacts me 2h before bidding ends begging me to cancel his bid because he happened to have bought a different GPU in the meanwhile and wouldn't be able to afford a second one. Well... when I canceled his bid all bids only he outbid were canceled as well and the auction was back at 10% of the items worth. It was a zero-experience bidder.

Perhaps you don't know, but this is a popular trick
Two accounts are used to bid in alternance, this raises the price and other bidders loose interest.
Then one of the accounts retracts (or asks the seller to cancel his bid), and the price falls to the lowest bid of the second account.
Example (simplified): account A bids 10, then B 15, then A 20, then B 25 and so on until the price is, say, 50.
If account B now retracts, all his bids are cancelled and account A wins with 10 because no matter how high a bid is, the price paid is just what is necessary to outbid the second highest bidder.

[webwit]

I once read an article about eBay considering Romania as the "capital of eBay fraud".

It's racist!

[chzel]

Kbdfr you really need to make a series of Ebay mini-seminars! Things to avoid, search-fu, etc!

[Muirium]

Hear hear!

I'd also like to hear what you sound like, and whether you're quite as grumpy yet deliciously chocolatey in real life…

[kbdfr]

I once read an article about eBay considering Romania as the "capital of eBay fraud".

It's racist!

I would rather say the "capital of eBay fraud" is Luxembourg,
where they have their European financial headquarters,
while their operational headquarters are in Dreilinden near Berlin

[Redmaus]

Perhaps you don't know, but this is a popular trick
Two accounts are used to bid in alternance, this raises the price and other bidders loose interest.
Then one of the accounts retracts (or asks the seller to cancel his bid), and the price falls to the lowest bid of the second account.
Example (simplified): account A bids 10, then B 15, then A 20, then B 25 and so on until the price is, say, 50.
If account B now retracts, all his bids are cancelled and account A wins with 10 because no matter how high a bid is, the price paid is just what is necessary to outbid the second highest bidder.

Part of the reason why I have held off of ebay when selling my boards. I think I might try GH next, see where that gets me.

[XMIT]

Buy It Now reduces fraud. That way you can do a reverse auction, dropping the price every week.

For every infuriating eBay transaction I've had about 40 good ones, so, YMMV. It is a place of last resort for sure but it is a good way to move items.

[webwit]

I would rather say the "capital of eBay fraud" is Luxembourg,
where they have their European financial headquarters,
while their operational headquarters are in Dreilinden near Berlin

Good point!
I opened a paypal (=ebay) account after a few years boycotting because of an earlier bad experience, for my Exotics Boutique, but had to close it after they kept hijacking my money for 21 days. I asked them to name the part in the Luxembourg/EU bank laws which allowed them to this this. It's not their money. They said they wouldn't/couldn't disclose. End of. One doesn't use criminals for financial transactions.

[IanM]

...they kept hijacking my money for 21 days...
...It's not their money. They said they wouldn't/couldn't disclose...

I fell foul of that when I sold a games console "high risk item" they said, despite me having a perfect track record with similarly high risk items. I complained to the financial ombudsman but didn't get anywhere, the closest I could get to an answer from paypal was that they are "not a bank, but a money service" and since they aren't a bank they don't think the banking laws apply to them.

I say they're just greedy cunts looking for an excuse to hold money for as long as possible so they can earn the interest.