Post a picture of your ideal keyboard layout!

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Telstar

18 Apr 2019, 09:37

Here I go again. :)
This is my own 75% with revised Italian layout and operational symbols grouped together like in a numpad.

Image

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BloodyKafir

18 Apr 2019, 20:12

Chyros wrote:
03 Jun 2015, 20:45
If you could have any keyboard layout, what would it be? Post a picture (doesn't have to be pretty, doesn't have to specify keys that are obvious if you don't want to), and give a little description.

Layout could be as simple or as complicated as you wanted it to be. 1% to 2000%, ISO, ANSI or neither, tertiary, quaternary or duodenary legends, joysticks, trackballs, whatever you want. Of course, whatever you pick has to fit on your desk!

Personally, mine would be extremely huge. Because more bigger is more better, right? xD

Image

ISO with big-ass enter key and 2u backspace, fun cluster on the left, one winkey on the right, screenshot key on the left, 12 PF keys on top of the F keys, full nav cluster and a calculator on top of and using the numpad, which includes an equals key. Bam!

What would yours be? GOGOGOGO
I know this is a fairly old post, but do let me know if you would want a custom board done in this layout. I have the capability to create something like this, and would love to make something super custom like this! If you have a discord, let me know, and we can start working on something!

User avatar
depletedvespene

18 Apr 2019, 20:15

BloodyKafir wrote:
18 Apr 2019, 20:12
I know this is a fairly old post, but do let me know if you would want a custom board done in this layout. I have the capability to create something like this, and would love to make something super custom like this! If you have a discord, let me know, and we can start working on something!
Are you actually talking about a custom case, a custom PCB or what exactly? Inquiring layouter wants to know. ;)

User avatar
Chyros

18 Apr 2019, 22:00

BloodyKafir wrote:
18 Apr 2019, 20:12
Chyros wrote:
03 Jun 2015, 20:45
If you could have any keyboard layout, what would it be? Post a picture (doesn't have to be pretty, doesn't have to specify keys that are obvious if you don't want to), and give a little description.

Layout could be as simple or as complicated as you wanted it to be. 1% to 2000%, ISO, ANSI or neither, tertiary, quaternary or duodenary legends, joysticks, trackballs, whatever you want. Of course, whatever you pick has to fit on your desk!

Personally, mine would be extremely huge. Because more bigger is more better, right? xD

Image

ISO with big-ass enter key and 2u backspace, fun cluster on the left, one winkey on the right, screenshot key on the left, 12 PF keys on top of the F keys, full nav cluster and a calculator on top of and using the numpad, which includes an equals key. Bam!

What would yours be? GOGOGOGO
I know this is a fairly old post, but do let me know if you would want a custom board done in this layout. I have the capability to create something like this, and would love to make something super custom like this! If you have a discord, let me know, and we can start working on something!
Image !

samuelcable

19 Apr 2019, 18:45

I realize that I have posted in this topic atleast twice already but this community keeps coming out with nice layouts. I tried an Alice at the Columbus meetup and fell in love. I struggle with 60 percents but this layout was beautiful for me
274e646f08a4d1c397bd19b578721685.jpg
274e646f08a4d1c397bd19b578721685.jpg (411.46 KiB) Viewed 1429 times
Now affording one to use is a different story :( I believe they range above 500 often for the kit only

Findecanor

19 Apr 2019, 22:37

There are some alternatives to Alice with a similar (or identical) layout. One GB closed the day before yesterday after having been open for only a couple of days (what the hell!). One has been in a IC stage for several months.

Personally, I think the right Space and Alt are too much too the left.

User avatar
Arjen

24 Apr 2019, 20:29

Hi, I'm new here but this thread seems like a good way to introduce myself. My main keyboard is a Kinesis Advantage 2 with Cherry MX browns originally, but which I converted to Cherry MX blues last week. I don't find the MX browns to be bad, but the blues are noticably better :D

43577279025_56aa5ef04c_c.jpg
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I use the Dvorak layout, but changed the mapping of the thumb clusters and some of the edge keys:

Kinesis Layout Small.png
Kinesis Layout Small.png (65.12 KiB) Viewed 1326 times

User avatar
ingmar

03 May 2019, 11:18

I was toying with the idea of a non-staggered, fullsize layout. A 100% Ortho, if you will, with a few nods to Ergodox. (Pardon the German layout, it should be easy to adapt to local needs.) All keys are 1U and 2U, with the exception of the Enter key which, to the best of my knowledge, does not exist. (ANSI users will simply use a 2U key.) Consider it a thought experiment for the time being :)

Image

ETA: I forgot abuot the split space bar. It's 2x3U, or a 7U if thats easier.

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Chyros

03 May 2019, 12:55

Liking the 2 u delete key, by the way. Fuck insert, it's anti-useful!

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depletedvespene

03 May 2019, 13:41

Chyros wrote:
03 May 2019, 12:55
Fuck insert, it's anti-useful!
Now, now, don't you say that kind of thing, as newbies might actually believe it. :roll:

User avatar
ingmar

03 May 2019, 13:49

Well, I do. (And I might be a newbie here at DT, but not to computing in general.) It's the most useless key on my keyboard by a wide margin, and that includes SysRq and ScrollLock, both of which have their uses. YMMV.

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depletedvespene

03 May 2019, 13:51

ingmar wrote:
03 May 2019, 11:18
I was toying with the idea of a non-staggered, fullsize layout. A 100% Ortho, if you will, with a few nods to Ergodox.
Interesting choices (there is one I really dislike, though — guess which). When I toyed with designing an ortholinear layout (before actually trying out one and deciding I didn't really like it), I went with a rather different look. I should dust it out and compare.

One thing, though: that 1U Alt and the "offset" split space bar strike me as needing a do-over.
ingmar wrote:
03 May 2019, 11:18
(Pardon the German layout, it should be easy to adapt to local needs.) All keys are 1U and 2U, with the exception of the Enter key which, to the best of my knowledge, does not exist. (ANSI users will simply use a 2U key.) Consider it a thought experiment for the time being :)
2U×2U Enter keys exist in POS keyboards; they're called (in jest) the "Latin Enter" key.

User avatar
ingmar

03 May 2019, 14:02

depletedvespene wrote:
03 May 2019, 13:51
(there is one I really dislike, though — guess which)
I dunno, the 2U Escape?
One thing, though: that 1U Alt and the "offset" split space bar strike me as needing a do-over.
I'm sure you're right. At this point I'm just throwing stuff around and see what sticks ... the idea was to have a fully symmetrical 22x6 matrix, with a mount (if not a switch) at every intersection. Given the right caps (and, obviously, programmability) this would eliminate the need for stabilizers (with the exception of the space key, I suppose.)
2U×2U Enter keys exist in POS keyboards; they're called (in jest) the "Latin Enter" key.
That's nice to know, thanks; "POS" being the operative term here, a quick search has turned up a number of options.

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depletedvespene

03 May 2019, 14:32

ingmar wrote:
03 May 2019, 14:02
depletedvespene wrote:
03 May 2019, 13:51
(there is one I really dislike, though — guess which)
I dunno, the 2U Escape?
I actually like enlarged Esc keys. :mrgreen:

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depletedvespene

03 May 2019, 14:40

ingmar wrote:
03 May 2019, 14:02
depletedvespene wrote:
03 May 2019, 13:51
One thing, though: that 1U Alt and the "offset" split space bar strike me as needing a do-over.
I'm sure you're right. At this point I'm just throwing stuff around and see what sticks ... the idea was to have a fully symmetrical 22x6 matrix, with a mount (if not a switch) at every intersection. Given the right caps (and, obviously, programmability) this would eliminate the need for stabilizers (with the exception of the space key, I suppose.)
This design for an asymmetrically split ortholinear layout was what I was cooking up after learning the lessons from my SOLBUS experiment, but before I ditched the concept altogether. Take what you want from this:

07.png
Asymmetrically split ortholinear layout (DRAFT).
07.png (25.16 KiB) Viewed 1225 times

I have another draft, a bit more polished, for a layout to be done with a XD75RE PCB (a contiguous block of 15×5 keys), but I need to find it. I'll look for it and post it if you want to see it.

digmorepaka

03 May 2019, 14:48

Image

I like this layout. Compact and mostly fully featured. Found on xx10-xx20 Thinkpads.

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kbdfr
The Tiproman

03 May 2019, 15:20

Chyros wrote:
03 May 2019, 12:55
Liking the 2 u delete key, by the way. Fuck insert, it's anti-useful!
Sorry to have to again disagree.
It toggles between Overwrite and Insert modes in Word, but also in other programs where it is even more useful.
If you ever had to write/edit film subtitles (where each line has a maximum length), you wouldn’t want to miss it.
Spoiler:
Am I the only one here who actually uses his keyboard for real work? :mrgreen:

davkol

03 May 2019, 15:37

Yeah, what if one doesn't use Word, though?

BTW
The Insert key, when pressed along with Control or Shift, can also be used to copy or paste in Microsoft Windows. This behavior comes from the Common User Access standard.

Screen readers use the insert key for hotkeys for reading text, speaking formatting information, or opening the screen reader's configuration menu or window.

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depletedvespene

03 May 2019, 15:43

davkol wrote:
03 May 2019, 15:37
Yeah, what if one doesn't use Word, though?
How about pretty much all other word processors, pretty much every text editor, and even Excel itself?

davkol wrote:
03 May 2019, 15:37
BTW
The Insert key, when pressed along with Control or Shift, can also be used to copy or paste in Microsoft Windows. This behavior comes from the Common User Access standard.

Screen readers use the insert key for hotkeys for reading text, speaking formatting information, or opening the screen reader's configuration menu or window.
CUA assignments for cut/copy/paste/clear may be "outdated" to some by today's standards, but do have the advantage of not depending on letters for their assignment (see the difficulties of inadvertently swapping Undo/Redo on the user manual for certain countries).

So, yeah, the Insert key is important and should not be erradicated (heck, Num Lock deserves it more... and even then, it should be only confined to an assignment in the Shift layer).

User avatar
AJM

03 May 2019, 15:56

kbdfr wrote:
03 May 2019, 15:20
.......
Am I the only one here who actually uses his keyboard for real work? :mrgreen:
Good Question. I too often get the impression, that a lot of "enthusiasts" here use their keyboard as a .......... keyboard: :mrgreen:
keyboardcat.gif
keyboardcat.gif (2.17 MiB) Viewed 1171 times

User avatar
ingmar

03 May 2019, 16:05

kbdfr wrote:
03 May 2019, 15:20
[Insert] toggles between Overwrite and Insert modes in Word, but also in other programs where it is even more useful.
Good for you. If you are using those programs, this is obviously an important key for you, and you will want to keep it in your layout. (Not that there weren't three or four other ways to switch between Insert and Overtype mode, but to each his own.)
depletedvespene wrote:
03 May 2019, 15:43
How about pretty much all other word processors, pretty much every text editor, and even Excel itself?
This being my fantasy layout, as it were, I get to decide :-) Seriously, the whole point of custom keyboards is, well, just that: "One size fits all" is not good enough, since everybody's needs and wants are different. There is no "right" or "wrong" here, just preferences. (I for one do most of my heavy editing in Vim, e.g., hence the big ESC key. Your needs may be different.)
davkol wrote:
03 May 2019, 15:37
The Insert key, when pressed along with Control or Shift, can also be used to copy or paste in Microsoft Windows.
I am fully aware of that, and still prefer Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V, respectively. But, again, that's a choice. If you need or want the INS key, by all means, keep it.
CUA assignments ... have the advantage of not depending on letters for their assignment (see the difficulties of inadvertently swapping Undo/Redo on the user manual for certain countries).
Copy, Cut and Paste use the letters C, X and V. I am not aware of a national layout that would position these letters in a different place. (Ctrl-Z is a different story, but that's got nothing to do with INS.)
Num Lock deserves it more... and even then, it should be only confined to an assignment in the Shift layer).
Num... what now? Long gone.

User avatar
depletedvespene

03 May 2019, 16:26

ingmar wrote:
03 May 2019, 16:05
depletedvespene wrote:
03 May 2019, 15:43
How about pretty much all other word processors, pretty much every text editor, and even Excel itself?
This being my fantasy layout, as it were, I get to decide :-) Seriously, the whole point of custom keyboards is, well, just that: "One size fits all" is not good enough, since everybody's needs and wants are different. There is no "right" or "wrong" here, just preferences. (I for one do most of my heavy editing in Vim, e.g., hence the big ESC key. Your needs may be different.)
Of course. As in the old joke about the doll's legs, you get to do whatever you want. Of course, it's not necessary to choose only between "one size fits all" and "mine and only mine" — a good design can perfectly well cater to all your needs and whims but still be usable for someone else.

ingmar wrote:
03 May 2019, 16:05
depletedvespene wrote:
03 May 2019, 15:43
Num Lock deserves it more... and even then, it should be only confined to an assignment in the Shift layer).
Num... what now? Long gone.
... as much as I'd like it to be otherwise, you're gonna need to keep Num Lock around (albeit as out of the way as feasible). Remember the status of the Num, Caps and Scroll locks CAN be changed by a program running in the computer, and therefore you need to have the three lock keys available under your fingers (not necessarily in the base layer, of course) to be able to correct their statuses if you need to.

samuelcable

03 May 2019, 16:29

depletedvespene wrote:
03 May 2019, 16:26
ingmar wrote:
03 May 2019, 16:05
depletedvespene wrote:
03 May 2019, 15:43
How about pretty much all other word processors, pretty much every text editor, and even Excel itself?
This being my fantasy layout, as it were, I get to decide :-) Seriously, the whole point of custom keyboards is, well, just that: "One size fits all" is not good enough, since everybody's needs and wants are different. There is no "right" or "wrong" here, just preferences. (I for one do most of my heavy editing in Vim, e.g., hence the big ESC key. Your needs may be different.)
Of course. As in the old joke about the doll's legs, you get to do whatever you want. Of course, it's not necessary to choose only between "one size fits all" and "mine and only mine" — a good design can perfectly well cater to all your needs and whims but still be usable for someone else.

ingmar wrote:
03 May 2019, 16:05
depletedvespene wrote:
03 May 2019, 15:43
Num Lock deserves it more... and even then, it should be only confined to an assignment in the Shift layer).
Num... what now? Long gone.
... as much as I'd like it to be otherwise, you're gonna need to keep Num Lock around (albeit as out of the way as feasible). Remember the status of the Num, Caps and Scroll locks CAN be changed by a program running in the computer, and therefore you need to have the three lock keys available under your fingers (not necessarily in the base layer, of course) to be able to correct their statuses if you need to.
Realforce r2 gets this right, it has a numlock key with scroll lock on fn layer even tho it's tkl. It's pretty nice to have

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depletedvespene

03 May 2019, 16:37

samuelcable wrote:
03 May 2019, 16:29
Realforce r2 gets this right, it has a numlock key with scroll lock on fn layer even tho it's tkl. It's pretty nice to have
I'd have done it the other way around: Scroll Lock in the base layer and Num Lock on the Fn layer (but WDIKAA).

User avatar
ingmar

03 May 2019, 16:48

samuelcable wrote:
03 May 2019, 16:29
... as much as I'd like it to be otherwise, you're gonna need to keep Num Lock around (albeit as out of the way as feasible).
I do? I mean, I suppose it could live in a secondary layer somwhere, but I really don't need it. I have long since configured my keyboards to output the exact same keys in both numlocked and unlocked states, using the numpad for number entry exclusively. (And should I really have the urge to switch the state of numlock at some point, I can do it in a heartbeat via the command line. Again, your needs may differ.)

That said, my Spacesaver actually uses Shift-Lock for Numlock, so why not?

davkol

03 May 2019, 18:33

depletedvespene wrote:
03 May 2019, 15:43
davkol wrote:
03 May 2019, 15:37
Yeah, what if one doesn't use Word, though?
How about pretty much all other word processors, pretty much every text editor, and even Excel itself?
"Word processor" is a fancy name for "virtual typewriter".

Say no to poor typesetting and poor machine-readability.

And Excel is what? A food?
ingmar wrote:
03 May 2019, 16:05
Copy, Cut and Paste use the letters C, X and V. I am not aware of a national layout that would position these letters in a different place. (Ctrl-Z is a different story, but that's got nothing to do with INS.)
F Keyboard
BDS 5237:1978
ANSI X4.22-1983

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ingmar

03 May 2019, 19:00

davkol wrote:
03 May 2019, 18:33
ingmar wrote:
03 May 2019, 16:05
Copy, Cut and Paste use the letters C, X and V. I am not aware of a national layout that would position these letters in a different place. (Ctrl-Z is a different story, but that's got nothing to do with INS.)
F Keyboard
BDS 5237:1978
ANSI X4.22-1983
Obviously I was talking neither about "alternative" layouts (such as Dvorak) nor non-Latin based ones (such as Bulgarian), but you made your point. They certainly are in the minority, though: QWERTY, QWERTZ, AZERTY etc all keep X,C,V firmly in the bottom row. There's actually a standard for that, too (ISO/IEC 9995-2:2009).

Lanrefni

03 May 2019, 19:03

depletedvespene wrote:
03 May 2019, 14:40
ingmar wrote:
03 May 2019, 14:02
depletedvespene wrote:
03 May 2019, 13:51
One thing, though: that 1U Alt and the "offset" split space bar strike me as needing a do-over.
I'm sure you're right. At this point I'm just throwing stuff around and see what sticks ... the idea was to have a fully symmetrical 22x6 matrix, with a mount (if not a switch) at every intersection. Given the right caps (and, obviously, programmability) this would eliminate the need for stabilizers (with the exception of the space key, I suppose.)
This design for an asymmetrically split ortholinear layout was what I was cooking up after learning the lessons from my SOLBUS experiment, but before I ditched the concept altogether. Take what you want from this:


07.png


I have another draft, a bit more polished, for a layout to be done with a XD75RE PCB (a contiguous block of 15×5 keys), but I need to find it. I'll look for it and post it if you want to see it.
A proper large split ortho should include a center Numpad-

Image

All the keys of a full size,but in a nice compact ortho layout,if you need insert/delete/etc they are on the Numpad where they belong.

davkol

03 May 2019, 21:30

ingmar wrote:
03 May 2019, 19:00
davkol wrote:
03 May 2019, 18:33
ingmar wrote:
03 May 2019, 16:05
Copy, Cut and Paste use the letters C, X and V. I am not aware of a national layout that would position these letters in a different place. (Ctrl-Z is a different story, but that's got nothing to do with INS.)
F Keyboard
BDS 5237:1978
ANSI X4.22-1983
Obviously I was talking neither about "alternative" layouts (such as Dvorak) nor non-Latin based ones (such as Bulgarian), but you made your point. They certainly are in the minority, though: QWERTY, QWERTZ, AZERTY etc all keep X,C,V firmly in the bottom row. There's actually a standard for that, too (ISO/IEC 9995-2:2009).
Turkish uses Latin script and F Keyboard is a hugely successful national layout. There have been attempts to replace it by Q Keyboard, specifically because of stuff like the aforementioned hotkeys, and that trend is a classic example of underlying imperialism that comes with US-exported computing technology. Especially East Asian countries have a long history of issues with that, but not only them: it already happened in the times of early typewriter technology (how foreign manufacturers w/ QWERTY-based layouts overran local designs, e.g., in France)... and now I wonder if this will totally derail the thread.

User avatar
depletedvespene

04 May 2019, 00:50

Lanrefni wrote:
03 May 2019, 19:03
A proper large split ortho should include a center Numpad-

Image

All the keys of a full size,but in a nice compact ortho layout,if you need insert/delete/etc they are on the Numpad where they belong.
This a pair of BFO-9000 PCBs? Those came out (or, more precisely, I learned they existed) after my time toying around with ortholinear stuff. The 15×5 matrix of the XD75 felt limiting (and so did the SOLBUS cluster), and sometimes I wonder what could have I done with a pair of those instead.

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