Alps Appreciation

[Muirium]

What is the least invasive way to pull Alps switches from the metal plate after they are desoldered from PCB?

Been an age since I last pulled Alps—I hate desoldering—but as I recall, I used fingers and a plastic shim / spudger to get them free. Sometimes you're lucky and they rise up, ready for the plucking. Perhaps that's when your desoldering is better than mine! I had all kind of stuff still stuck to the legs, though, so they needed coercion.

Depends, but normally & escpecially when the pcb of the donor board is not as important, I pry them out. I stick this tool from my ifixit kit in between the bottom of the switches and the pcb and pry upwards, works like a charm. put a towel or your hand over the switch or it will fly through the room

Edit: Yes, I remember the Unidentified Flying Alps problem, now!

[engr]

Thanks. The desoldering is usually not an issue (although I have a desoldering gun, I found that Solderwick is cleaner). But I'd rather not damage the PCB, so prying tool is not a great option either.

[hellothere]

Just wanted to say thanks for the compliments on the 101. It was a lot of work.

[hellothere]

I'd like a darker grey lock lights sticker, but I can't have everything.

I've looked into making custom stickers for restoring Omnikeys, and I got some transparent and opaque slides that can be printed on with a laser printer, and that have an adhesive back surface. What I haven't been able to find is a thicker transparent "frosted" plastic to use as an overlay. If anyone knows where to find such a thing, please let me know.

What I'd really, really like is a good source for the mylar/plastic function key label.

[Polecat]

What I'd really, really like is a good source for the mylar/plastic function key label.

Bob Tibbetts had those made up, but his were in sections, four F-keys per section. Do you have a Tap Plastics near you? We had some mylar badges made up by them for a product at work, and I'll bet they could do the Northgate overlays too.

edit: a photo of Tibbetts' F-key overlays was posted here:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25150

[engr]

I think ultimately the solution is to find a vendor that can do this type of plastic printing and do a group buy for a bunch of overlays and function key labels. Unfortunately I don't have a Tap Plastics store near me. I would work on it but I don't have either spare time or money right now.

Either that or print the overlays on one of these vinyl adhesive labels (I have done it, doesn't look perfect but it's not horrible) and glue a self-adhesive transparent frosted vinyl cover on top of it (something along these or these lines). I'll give it a try and see what happens.

[Polecat]

I think ultimately the solution is to find a vendor that can do this type of plastic printing and do a group buy for a bunch of overlays and function key labels. Unfortunately I don't have a Tap Plastics store near me. I would work on it but I don't have either spare time or money right now.

Either that or print the overlays on one of these vinyl adhesive labels (I have done it, doesn't look perfect but it's not horrible) and glue a self-adhesive transparent frosted vinyl cover on top of it (something along these or these lines). I'll give it a try and see what happens.

Looks like Tap Plastics is left coast only. I could walk to their fabrication shop from where I live, but thanks to bad experiences in the past I am *not* getting involved in group buys or any other marketing fiascos. Hopefully someone will be able to do this. I'd like to buy a few of these myself, but only from someone who has the actual product in-hand.

[guidemetothelight]

Function key overlays for common vintage boards would really be a cool idea for a product !
On another note, what parts of SKCM switches do you generally lube ?

Alps_SKCM_Amber_--_click_leaf.jpg (230.25 KiB) Viewed 20797 times

I would have lubed the sides of the stem that come into contact with the upper housing, the uper housing slider recesses and the spring maybe to get rid of a bit of spring ping.
Also what parts do you throw into the ultra sonic cleaner ? I would have put in Slider, Upper & Lower Housing. Nothing else.
And does someone has a good ali express supplier for (two stage) springs for alps switches ?
I have some SKCM dampened Creams I want to experiment with. I´am talking Wax Boil, Spring Swap, Wet Lube & maybe a Paper Mod, just to see what you can get out of one of the cheapest alps out there

[podgen]

what parts of SKCM switches do you generally lube ?
Alps_SKCM_Amber_--_click_leaf.jpg
I would have lubed the sides of the stem that come into contact with the upper housing, the uper housing slider recesses and the spring maybe to get rid of a bit of spring ping.
Also what parts do you throw into the ultra sonic cleaner ? I would have put in Slider, Upper & Lower Housing. Nothing else.
And does someone has a good ali express supplier for (two stage) springs for alps switches ?
I have some SKCM dampened Creams I want to experiment with. I´am talking Wax Boil, Spring Swap, Wet Lube & maybe a Paper Mod, just to see what you can get out of one of the cheapest alps out there

The couple times I've lubed alps I've just gone for the sides of the slider that makes contact with the rails after ultrasonically cleaning the stem and upper housings, and it seeeeeems to work alright, though I've never tried your type of method to compare. I hate the sluggishness that lube sometimes brings, so i tend to be a bit lighter on the lube side of things. Regarding springs though, call me insane but i kinda like ping in vintage switches???? Alps boards seem to suit it, and it adds a bit of interest to the overall sound. I wouldn't say the same about MX switches though, as i think custom MX boards are generally pretty clean sounding and ping can mar that.

Recently i did have the pleasure of getting some oa2 alps clones pre-desoldered though, so i whacked the top & bottom housings along with the sliders in for an ultrasonic clean (5 min time usually) and I did my first wax mod on them. It pretty much cleared up all of the pretty bad binding they had pre-mod, and i would be hesitant about lubing on top of a wax mod but that's unfounded caution. Some of the click leaves were also pretty dirty, so i took a cotton bud and IPA to them to clean them up.

[guidemetothelight]

The couple times I've lubed alps I've just gone for the sides of the slider that makes contact with the rails after ultrasonically cleaning the stem and upper housings, and it seeeeeems to work alright, though I've never tried your type of method to compare. I hate the sluggishness that lube sometimes brings, so i tend to be a bit lighter on the lube side of things

After yesterday´s testing, veery light lubing of the indicated spots makes the switches a fair bit smoother, but now I want to try waxboiling and wet lubing to see how much further that would get me.
I removed the dampeners of all the skcm creams to give them some of their sound back.

Regarding springs though, call me insane but i kinda like ping in vintage switches???? Alps boards seem to suit it, and it adds a bit of interest to the overall sound.

Thats a fair point. I tried it without the spring lube, which didnt really help anyway & I must say, I like it more that way as well.
Only problem is that the dampened cream springs are pretty inconsistent, so I want to swap the springs to some (lighter) two stage srpings. Around 55 grams would be great I think, the 70 of the dampened creams are a tad bit too much for me.

[podgen]

The couple times I've lubed alps I've just gone for the sides of the slider that makes contact with the rails after ultrasonically cleaning the stem and upper housings, and it seeeeeems to work alright, though I've never tried your type of method to compare. I hate the sluggishness that lube sometimes brings, so i tend to be a bit lighter on the lube side of things

After yesterday´s testing, veery light lubing of the indicated spots makes the switches a fair bit smoother, but now I want to try waxboiling and wet lubing to see how much further that would get me.
I removed the dampeners of all the skcm creams to give them some of their sound back.

Regarding springs though, call me insane but i kinda like ping in vintage switches???? Alps boards seem to suit it, and it adds a bit of interest to the overall sound.

Thats a fair point. I tried it without the spring lube, which didnt really help anyway & I must say, I like it more that way as well.
Only problem is that the dampened cream springs are pretty inconsistent, so I want to swap the springs to some (lighter) two stage srpings. Around 55 grams would be great I think, the 70 of the dampened creams are a tad bit too much for me.

Wait, do you get doublestage Alps springs???? I love MX double/triple stage, but on Alps they'd be phenomenal. I also have some ivories lying about that I'm going to experiment on, so lighter springs could be part of that

[guidemetothelight]

Wait, do you get doublestage Alps springs???? I love MX double/triple stage, but on Alps they'd be phenomenal. I also have some ivories lying about that I'm going to experiment on, so lighter springs could be part of that

Yeah , there are springs on ali express you can use. The store I used back in the day doesnt ship to germany anymore So iam looking for a good dual stage spring seller that ships to europe & sells alps compatible springs.

[podgen]

Wait, do you get doublestage Alps springs???? I love MX double/triple stage, but on Alps they'd be phenomenal. I also have some ivories lying about that I'm going to experiment on, so lighter springs could be part of that

Yeah , there are springs on ali express you can use. The store I used back in the day doesnt ship to germany anymore So iam looking for a good dual stage spring seller that ships to europe & sells alps compatible springs.

Awwwww, I'm UK based so I doubt I'll be able to get any shipped. Let me know if you ever manage to find another seller!

[engr]

Since I couldn't get the PCB on my Ultra-TP to work properly, I ended up transplanting the good parts from it - a very clean plate, case top, and double-shot keycaps - into an Avant Stellar, along with some NOS blue Alps. Best of all - the programmability features in the Avant still work, and the EEPROM chip now sits inside a DIP socket so it's easy to replace if needed. I think this board will be my daily driver from now on, unless I manage to find a black Avant Stellar by some freaking miracle (then I'll just swap the case and the keycaps). Thanks to Polecat, Karolus and Alectardy98 for their help with this project.

The only things (beside black color, lol) that could make this board better would be a badge from an old Northgate Ultra (the one with a thick transparent overlay) and a case bottom from a Gen 3 Northgate with detachable cable socket.

Another interesting project would be to find a 102P (I know they exist, but I have yet to see one for sale) and outfit it with blue or Amber Alps, a gold badge from an early 102, and a detachable cable. Granted, it would have no dedicated macro buttons, but what a beauty it would be!

P.S. I still think that FK-8200 would have been the perfect Alps keyboard... had Focus not decided to replace the Alps switches with a freakin' rubber dome design and add that ridiculous space bar. Why, Focus, why????

[engr]

Looks like the person who bought Bob Tibbetts' inventory has a web site up and running.

[hellothere]

Anyone else notice that the pictures for "Northgate Omnikey Keyboard Repair/Parts/Maintenance" aren't Omnikey keyboards? From left to right: probably a Dell bigfoot (black Alps), Wang (call it a 725), and a laptop PCB of some kind.

However, thanks for posting, engr. I do need some parts.

[hellothere]

Latest finished project:

Spoiler:

Full - Copy.jpg (758.82 KiB) Viewed 20382 times

toprustfree - Copy.jpg (1021.56 KiB) Viewed 20382 times

No retr0bright. No painting. Orange Alps are obviously not original, but they're quite nice in this keyboard's case.

[engr]

Latest finished project:

How do you like the sound on this chassis?
I have been thinking about outfitting an AT101W with blue or amber Alps.

[fohat]

I have been thinking about outfitting an AT101W with blue or amber Alps.

I have AT101Ws with both blue and orange, and both are excellent. But note that I focus on feel - and sound seems secondary.

[hellothere]

Latest finished project:

How do you like the sound on this chassis?
I have been thinking about outfitting an AT101W with blue or amber Alps.

I've not tried amber Alps. It's a switch I'd like to try sometime.

I don't care too much about sound, although I do like it when the keyboard sounds good, like the one I'm currently typing on: Box Jades. I care about feel. I always bottom out, so the sound is about the same as if I was using linearized black Alps.

I am going to fit a Dell case with white Alps, just because I think that'd be interesting. I may do something crazier and fit an Apple Extended Keyboard II with whites. PBT keycaps ...

I'm currently selling an untested NEC PC-8801 that has blue Alps. If I fail to sell it for the price I want, I'll definitely consider putting them in a Dell case. However, I do have an Omnikey Ultra that needs some work and that might be the winner.

[rezenew]

Just got done restoring my z150, and its awesome.
I finally got an alps keyboard that I can actually consider using over my model f xt.
Keycaps are all of the double shot abs variety. With green alps.
Lubed the springs, fully cleaned the top housings + sliders, as well as waxing the sliders. I found a very big impovement after the wax was applied, now these feel like brand new, they were in pretty nice condition before hand.
Only thing wrong with it is I notice when I type sometimes keys dont get sent, so I am asuming the switch plates are dying on me.. any suggestions to help revive these? Or should I just replace them?

[rezenew]

Another thought I had, is there any discernable rhyme or reason to why some of these had the Zenith in gold, while others had the data systems in gold? The ones with the gold on the Zenith seem much more rare, are they the earlier badge? Or maybe from a different PC / monitor, because it seems the badges were very interchangeable between models.

[TNT]

Another thought I had, is there any discernable rhyme or reason to why some of these had the Zenith in gold, while others had the data systems in gold? The ones with the gold on the Zenith seem much more rare, are they the earlier badge? Or maybe from a different PC / monitor, because it seems the badges were very interchangeable between models.

I never noticed that until now, holy cow! The badges on the AT (white badge) version ar all gold-white, so maybe those are actually a later version?

[engr]

This Datadesk Switchboard has an interesting description on the back of the box saying that they had additional modules, like 24 programmable macro keys, a trackball, and more: "Datadesk's Module Development Team is at work on still more input devices - a digitizer tablet, a numeric keypad especially designed for accountants and auditors, an LCD calculator and many more - designed to make the Switchboard ever more powerful and ever more flexible".

I guess Focus wasn't the only one interested in built-in calculators. I wonder if these modules "in development" ever came out? How nice would it be to have a complicated Alps board with programmable macro keys, a calculator and a build quality that's... better than a typical Focus board.

[Polecat]

This Datadesk Switchboard has an interesting description on the back of the box saying that they had additional modules, like 24 programmable macro keys, a trackball, and more: "Datadesk's Module Development Team is at work on still more input devices - a digitizer tablet, a numeric keypad especially designed for accountants and auditors, an LCD calculator and many more - designed to make the Switchboard ever more powerful and ever more flexible".

I guess Focus wasn't the only one interested in built-in calculators. I wonder if these modules "in development" ever came out? How nice would it be to have a complicated Alps board with programmable macro keys, a calculator and a build quality that's... better than a typical Focus board.

From what I remember about the Switchboard keyboards Focus put them to shame. With no real structure they were "squishy" and the modules did not want to stay in place. I'll take an early Focus over a Datadesk any day.

[Muirium]

Said image, as Ebay will delete it soon:

[phinix]

Are Alps Orange switches any good?
I understand that browns are best, but how about orange ones?

[fohat]

Are Alps Orange switches any good?

I love orange, they are definitely my favorite tactile Alps although I have never had any brown.

[phinix]

I wonder if its worth paying $200 for a keyboard to harvest them.

[photekq]

I wonder if its worth paying $200 for a keyboard to harvest them.

No.

Orange Alps are amongst the most common, as they're found in Apple keyboards - those being some of the most common vintage boards of all time.