XT Zenith Z-150 converter?

User avatar
itzmeluigi

19 Feb 2016, 20:07

I was curious if anyone has been able to get their black label XT Zenith Z-150 to work with a converter such as a Teensy with soarer firmware or Orihalcon's XT to USB adapter. I was going to purchase Orihalcons XT to USB adapter but he tested it on his black label XT Zenith Z-150 and it made a single beep and the numlock LED was light up. I've been searching to try and find if someone has successfully converted a black label Z-150 to work over USB or PS/2 but i havent been able to find anyone who has done it. Everyone who uses a Z-150 over USB seems to have the beige label AT compatible version. Other than rewiring the whole board, does anyone know of a way to convert the XT Z-150 to USB or PS/2?

Thanks

User avatar
XMIT
[ XMIT ]

19 Feb 2016, 20:12

Try making your own Soarer's Converter using a Pro Micro or similar, and try these two things:

1. Use a pull-up resistor on the data and clock lines. I don't know if orihalcon's converter does this.
2. Wire in the reset line. Orihalcon's converter certainly does not do this.

These two things will "fix" Soarer's Converter on many ornery boards (IIRC the Leading Edge DC-2014 is one of them).

If that doesn't work then it will take some protocol reverse engineering.

User avatar
ohaimark
Kingpin

29 Feb 2016, 17:24

So you need to bridge a resistor from the +5v line to the data and clock lines?

Edit: I have the requisite 1/2 watt 1K Ohm resistor.

Edit 2: image.

Edits 3+: fixed image.

Edit: This is a view from the MALE side of the connector.
Attachments
Capture.JPG
Capture.JPG (48.17 KiB) Viewed 3385 times
Last edited by ohaimark on 07 Jan 2017, 05:53, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
itzmeluigi

01 Mar 2016, 09:10

This is all fantastic information thank you so much both of you. I just tested Orihalcons adapter with soarer firmware v1.12 and it didnt work with the black label Z-150 and it didnt work either on the beige label Z-150's. I have another Orihalcon adapter with soarer firmware v1.03 on the way, so maybe that might help.

I have five Arduino Nanos coming soon, just waiting for them to arrive from China. Once i get them ill try and build a soarer adapter with the bridged resistor and reset wire.

User avatar
ohaimark
Kingpin

01 Mar 2016, 11:44

You'll want to use two separate 1K Ohm to 10K Ohm resistors on the data and clock lines, not one like I had before.

The TMK firmware recommends 1K Ohm, so that's what I'm using.

Just remember not to actually put the resistors inside the DIN connector -- the image is meant to show what lines need to be connected in an easy way.

User avatar
XMIT
[ XMIT ]

01 Mar 2016, 13:53

ohaimark wrote: You'll want to use two separate 1K Ohm to 10K Ohm resistors on the data and clock lines, not one like I had before.
This is what I recommended, just to be safe. ohaimark, did you manage to get this working?

User avatar
ohaimark
Kingpin

01 Mar 2016, 13:58

Still waiting on a few parts. Will likely begin building tonight.

User avatar
Chyros

01 Mar 2016, 14:39

Would be good if there would be a definitive procedure on how to get these converted and then wikify it. Hopefully I'll sport one of these myself one day :D .

User avatar
ohaimark
Kingpin

01 Mar 2016, 19:44

ARGH! The Leonardo clone I received has, from what I can tell, a defective power supply. When I wire a DIN or PS/2 connector to it properly (using the 5v and ground pins only to isolate the issue) the power led dims and the board slowly shuts down.

User avatar
ohaimark
Kingpin

02 Mar 2016, 17:18

Just ordered a Teensy 2.0, which will hopefully nip any further problems in the bud.

My enclosure is going to be grossly oversized now... But at least the pinout will be easy to match with Soarer's documentation.

More updates when it arrives.

User avatar
Chyros

02 Mar 2016, 18:44

So would it be possible to make one of these work with the PCB still in place you think or would it all have to be desoldered and hand-wired?

User avatar
ohaimark
Kingpin

02 Mar 2016, 19:48

At the time I didn't have the know-how to trace the matrix. I think it could definitely work with the PCB still in place.

Edit: I think the most likely culprit for its misbehavior is the thick, long, coiled cable that the keyboard uses. Option 2 is that it needs the reset line to function. Option 3 is that the protocol is different.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

02 Mar 2016, 23:43

Reset… its been a while since I read Soarer's docs. Does his converter even have a pin for that?

User avatar
ohaimark
Kingpin

03 Mar 2016, 01:52

Since version 1.1, yes.

User avatar
ohaimark
Kingpin

03 Mar 2016, 03:35

Here's the enclosure... It's huge, but that just leaves room for a switch and more ports later. 8-)

I want that Teensy here NOW.
Attachments
DSC01301.jpg
DSC01301.jpg (463.62 KiB) Viewed 3292 times
DSC01300.jpg
DSC01300.jpg (499.69 KiB) Viewed 3292 times

User avatar
itzmeluigi

03 Mar 2016, 05:30

ohaimark wrote: At the time I didn't have the know-how to trace the matrix. I think it could definitely work with the PCB still in place.

Edit: I think the most likely culprit for its misbehavior is the thick, long, coiled cable that the keyboard uses. Option 2 is that it needs the reset line to function. Option 3 is that the protocol is different.
Why do you think the long coiled cable might be causing the issues? Id like to change it out anyway since its way to bulky :lol:

Are you converting another black label or a beige label this time?

I should probably order a Teensy also since my Arduino Nanos are taking forever to arrive.

User avatar
ohaimark
Kingpin

03 Mar 2016, 12:51

Long,thin cables can have high resistance/impedance and coils can do weird things to electronic signals, though the latter effect would be minimal in such a low voltage/current application. I didn't measure the cable before or after conversion because I was an idiot.

There may be a 100-1886 in with my keyboard buy, but I won't be sure until it's in today. The seller didn't send me photos of the last two boards he threw in that resembled the 100-1860s.

User avatar
itzmeluigi

06 Mar 2016, 03:38

Oh i understand now, once i get it up and running i certainly want to change out the coiled cable for a straight one.

I just tested my black and white label Z-150's with orihalcon's adapter firmware v1.03 that arrived today and both of them refuse to work even when i tried force setting XT or AT mode in the config file. So i think that the Z-150's just refuse to work with orihalcons soarer adapters.

My Arduino Nano's arrived but still waiting on the DIN sockets and 1pin cables.

User avatar
ohaimark
Kingpin

06 Mar 2016, 04:37

I'll be soldering mine up and testing it tonight with the reset line and pull-up resistors. I'll include photos of the wiring job, as disorganized as it may be.

I tested both the white and black label versions with Orihalcon's Soarer's converter -- neither worked.

User avatar
itzmeluigi

06 Mar 2016, 04:47

Awesome looking forward to it :D

I talked to someone who said they use their white label Z-150 with this converter and that it works fine: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 8SV3807929 Its interesting why that converter would work but not orihalcons.

User avatar
ohaimark
Kingpin

06 Mar 2016, 07:15

After a finger of fine Scotch Whiskey (celebrated my 21st birthday today -- I'm legal to drink), some soldering, and a few tests I reached two unexpected conclusions:

1) With the reset cable and pull-up resistors wired, both of the "Black Label" Zenith 100-1886s work
2) Both of the "White Label" Zenith 100-1860s DON'T work

Elaborating on point two:

I tested the 100-1860s using a Blue Cube, Orihalcon's converter, and my converter. None of the three work. With my converter, the keyboards reach a point where the speaker inside can make clicking noises when keys are pressed for a few seconds. After that, however, the keyboard fails to respond in any way. During the few seconds when it can make clicking noises the computer doesn't register any keypresses. The fact that it can play clicks on its speaker tells me that power is probably not the issue, though it could be.

The fact that 1860s work with different controllers, as itzme mentioned, makes the following options likely:

1) The keyboards have a slightly different protocol that "dumber" or "less strict" converters can still use
2) The cords are still so stupidly long that it messes up the voltage/data
3) The keyboards have a part that has a high failure rate
4) Something else is going on (speculate, please -- I'd value some... input [dad joke] from other members)
Attachments
DSC01314.jpg
Note the two pull-up resistors wired to the back of the DIN connector.
DSC01314.jpg (456.12 KiB) Viewed 3248 times

User avatar
itzmeluigi

06 Mar 2016, 07:40

Nice happy 21 man congrats :D

Excellent job getting the 100-1886's to work, this is so great for anyone trying to get a 100-1886 up and running :) Cant wait to try this.

My 100-1860s do the same exact thing, the speaker inside can make clicking noises for a few seconds then stops responding as well. I dont think any parts failing would be the cause since all five of my 100-1860s do the same thing consistently. Maybe it is the cord.

User avatar
ohaimark
Kingpin

06 Mar 2016, 16:32

I'll attempt a cord swap with a 100-1886 today to see if I get a different result.

Edit: cord swap had no impact. The cables have surprisingly low resistance, though, given their length.

User avatar
itzmeluigi

08 Mar 2016, 04:09

I took pictures of the controller chips on the black label Z-150's and white label Z-150s and the black label uses a different controller than the white labels. Even the white labels with different PCB revisions use the same controller so maybe this is why. Maybe TMK would work with with the white label Z-150?


Black label:
Image

White Label:
Image

White Label:
Image

User avatar
ohaimark
Kingpin

08 Mar 2016, 04:46

Try it. Until then we won't know. :lol:

User avatar
pr0ximity

08 Mar 2016, 12:23

itzmeluigi wrote: Awesome looking forward to it :D

I talked to someone who said they use their white label Z-150 with this converter and that it works fine: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 8SV3807929 Its interesting why that converter would work but not orihalcons.
Just thought I'd chime in and say that sounds like me :P

I have a beige-label, which is the AT model. It works fine with the linked PS/2 -> USB converter, after a DIN -> PS/2 converter as well of course. I can try to find the DIN -> PS/2 converter online if that matters, it looks very generic.

The only issue I've run into is that the F7 key only works over PS/2, the USB converter seems to prevent that specific key from being sent (the internal buzzer still beeps when it is pressed, the PC just never recieves the code). That's not the case for other PS/2 boards that I've used it with (namely my OTD, though it's not even close to similar).

I have tried a BlueCube and it doesn't work at all, strangely enough.

User avatar
itzmeluigi

13 Mar 2016, 02:02

pr0ximity wrote:
itzmeluigi wrote: Awesome looking forward to it :D

I talked to someone who said they use their white label Z-150 with this converter and that it works fine: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 8SV3807929 Its interesting why that converter would work but not orihalcons.
Just thought I'd chime in and say that sounds like me :P

I have a beige-label, which is the AT model. It works fine with the linked PS/2 -> USB converter, after a DIN -> PS/2 converter as well of course. I can try to find the DIN -> PS/2 converter online if that matters, it looks very generic.

The only issue I've run into is that the F7 key only works over PS/2, the USB converter seems to prevent that specific key from being sent (the internal buzzer still beeps when it is pressed, the PC just never recieves the code). That's not the case for other PS/2 boards that I've used it with (namely my OTD, though it's not even close to similar).

I have tried a BlueCube and it doesn't work at all, strangely enough.
Haha yup it was you :D

I ordered the same adapter you use and it arrived today and it works great, i got the same results as you, the F7 key doesnt work with the conveter but still beeps. It doesnt work with my BlueCube either. Other than the F7 key this adapter is really nice for only $5, if only it had the ability to remap keys it would be perfect. Im going to order a TMK to PS/2 adapter and see if that will allow the F7 key to work.

When i was testing all my AT Z-150's i noticed one of them had corrosion near the spacebar and on a few traces near it that prevented the spacebar, capslock and F8 key from working but after bridging some wires it works now.
Image

User avatar
itzmeluigi

29 Mar 2016, 03:00

I got my XT Z-150 up and running using a Pro Micro but it misses keypresses, im not sure if the Pro Micro is to blame or if its because the Z-150 has NKRO over USB with the soarer firmware. Is there a way to disable NKRO for keyboards that automatically receive NKRO over USB with soarer firmware?

Is there any better alternatives to a Pro Micro? I had to use a modified version of soarers firmware since the Pro Micro didnt support the reset pinout that soarers firmware uses.
workshop-f7/how-to-use-a-pro-micro-as-a ... 48-30.html

Edit: I just tried the AT Z-150 (white label) with TMK using PS/2 INT and it doesnt work.

User avatar
ohaimark
Kingpin

23 Jun 2016, 04:36

Using a teensy is the best way to go. Those things are reliable and fully supported; everything else isn't.

Looks like the only way to use Beiges is with that goofy no-name converter. -shrugs-

orihalcon

22 Jul 2016, 22:17

I am wondering if the person who used their white label one actually had a white label AT version/layout rather than XT. That would make a lot more sense to me.

Post Reply

Return to “Keyboards”