click-modding experience

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//gainsborough
ALPSの日常

18 Feb 2017, 02:34

Hello once again, DeskThority forum readers!

I didn't know whuch subforum I should post this in, so I figured keyboards works - I am talking about a keyboard, after all, haha. This is my first keyboard write-up since joining the community back in June of ’16! I’ve acquired a good number of keyboards during my stay here, and today I’ll be talking about the Apple m0116.

In the seemingly unending search for a blue alps keyboard, I started doing some “click-mods” on a few of my tactile alps boards after watching Chyros’ video on how to do it. I started with an ALPS branded keyboard that looks similar to the AT101W but not as big – it had black tactile alps switches, so I removed the four tabs on the click leaf of each alpha-block switch to make them all clicky. It instantly became my favorite switch at that point.
I have a few white alps boards, but I don’t think I have any “good condition” white alps, so it’s hard to compare, but to me the clicky black alps were superior. The ALPS board was pretty so-so as far as build quality, so I knew my next click-mod had to be one something that felt a little bit more solid, and with a different switch.

Enter orange alps.

Surprisingly inexpensive on ebay, I picked up an m0116 and an m0115. After typing on them for a day or so, I decided that didn’t want to destroy the integrity of the two Apple classics I had just purchased. Luckily about a month later, another cheap m0116 came up so I snagged it for the sole purpose of click-modding it.
I wish I had thought of taking pictures to document the progress of the board, but unfortunately, out of pure oversight, I ended up just diving into the project that night as soon as my kiddo fell asleep. 77 switches (I left the spacebar, power button thing, and caps lock keys alone), a can of compressed air, some spray paint, and 308 metal tabs later – the board was done!

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The paint job definitely sucks – let’s just get that out of the way. It was the first time I’ve ever painted a case – and actually, the first time I’ve ever spray painted anything… I don’t know if I want to fix it, though, I think it really gives off the novice vibe, with an ambitious undertone. Also, I didn’t want to remove the apple logo because I wasn’t sure If I’d be able to put it back on correctly, so I just taped over it with a thin strip of tape. I’m going to affectionately refer to the result as the “vintage stripe” – I actually kind of like it, haha.

The most interesting thing about the whole process was that the particular board I was working on had inconsistent switchplates. Most of the switchplates were white, which is what I expected, but some of them were the gray-colored ones that I assumed were only found on older alps switches – like SKCL green or SKCM blue. They seemed to be randomly placed in the board as well – I’m very curious if it was manufactured like this or if in its lifetime some switches had to be replaced.

As for my analysis for switch feel… 100% this is my new favorite switch. Hypersphere was saying something earlier this week about how when you put work into a project it makes the result that much more enjoyable, and I couldn’t agree more with that statement. I think even if I had won the auction for that ANSI blue alps board that sold for like $335 on ebay the other week, it wouldn’t have meant as much as this m0116 does now. Even If I try to be a little more objective with my opinion of this switch, I think typing feel and sound would still come out on top – but again, I base this only on the boards that I have, which doesn’t include a blue alps board. I honestly really want to compare the two sounds – but for now I’ll just keep bugging Chyros’ to click-mod a board full of orange alps and make a video comparing them to blues. =)

Thanks for reading! I’ve included an oddly-cropped video below that compares my two m0116s “side-by-side.” I should also mention that both boards seemed to have comparable switch quality at the start. Orange alps in general are awesome.

i don't know how to embed videos apparently

またね。
//gains.

codemonkeymike

18 Feb 2017, 02:53

Sounds divine! I will be doing the same just a few days from now. The Ultrasonic cleaner is coming in tomorrow ala xmits recommendation on his alps restoration thread. Glad to hear you liked it.

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Chyros

18 Feb 2017, 04:29

It's hard to know for sure, but that definitely does appear to sport some characteristics of blue Alps sound. Not as bassy, I think, but it does seem to have that "punch-through-the-table" noise that blue but not white Alps have. Of course, the sound will never be the same between click-modded oranges and blue Alps, because the click leaf is a different shape, and oranges don't have a knocker. But still...

I'll happily do a click-mod on an orange Alps board if I get one that's superfluous ;) .

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//gainsborough
ALPSの日常

18 Feb 2017, 04:35

Chyros wrote: It's hard to know for sure, but that definitely does appear to sport some characteristics of blue Alps sound.
Right?! I thought that exact same thing when I started typing on it!
Chyros wrote: I'll happily do a click-mod on an orange Alps board if I get one that's superfluous ;) .
Looking forward to it.

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Applet

18 Feb 2017, 15:43

I also have click-modded oranges, but in an alps64 60% keyboard. I''m really liking them, but they are a bit worn and thus a bit inconsistent (clead in ultrasonic cleaner and regular washing detergent). The only other clicky apls I've tried are click modded damped creams, which feel quite bad in comparison.

Would be interesting with a comparison to blues :)

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Hypersphere

19 Feb 2017, 00:21

When I "click mod", rather than clipping 2 or all 4 tabs on a tactile leaf, I replace the tactile leaf with a click leaf from a white or blue Alps switch. Likewise, when I click mod a linear Alps switch, given that these have no tactile leaf, I necessarily install a click leaf along with replacing the top housing with one from a tactile or clicky Alps switch. If the donor parts are from white Alps, I use only "pine" switches with the slits in the top housing. I found that I got better and more consistent results with an actual click leaf as opposed to a tactile leaf with its tabs clipped.

Recently, I "click modded" a Zenith 163-73 with linear yellow Alps by installing top housings and click leaves from white (pine) Alps. I kept the yellow sliders and springs. I enjoy typing on the hybrid switches much more than on the original linear ones.

I am typing this with an Alps64 that originally had SKCM brown Alps, which were delightfully tactile but a bit too heavy for long typing sessions. So, I replaced the top housings, sliders, springs, and tactile leaves with the corresponding parts from blue Alps switches. The result is essentially blue Alps switches, making the board much easier to type on for prolonged periods. However, with its stainless steel plate and TEX CNC aluminum case, the board lacks resilience and resonance, so it sounds a bit flat and feels somewhat harsh when bottoming out. However, I just now compared typing on the hybridized Alps64 to typing on my KBP V60 with Matias Click switches. I like Matias Click switches, but the modified Alps are so much better -- smooth, elegant, and comparatively quiet.

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//gainsborough
ALPSの日常

19 Feb 2017, 07:03

I think I want to try your click-mod next, probably on some salmon alps. Although I have a zkb-2 with yellow alps that I wouldn't mind making clicky - I'm not particularly fond of linear switches, although I do really like green alps. In any case, I don't think I want to destroy anymore tactile leaves - plus clipping them is really tedious... I am very happy with the result it produced though. It would be interesting to hear the difference between the two click mods.

Your modifying sounds like a fun science - one day I'll have enough alps boards to do some experimenting like that! I'm pretty jealous =P

Also! If anyone has any alps clicky leaves lying around, I'm interested!

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macboarder

19 Feb 2017, 12:17

M0115/6 are swell keyboards, they really make the switches sing.
A while ago I was playing around with some Alps boards in a similar fashion - shuffling the leaf springs about. As a result, Orange Alps with click leaves from White Alps are now my favorite clicky switches (to the point where I stopped using Blues). I got great results with similar wide click leaves from some clone switches as well.

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Hypersphere

19 Feb 2017, 15:41

Has anyone here tried putting click leaves from Matias Click switches into any linear or tactile Alps switches? (Of course, to install a click leaf in a linear Alps switch, it is also necessary to install a top housing from a tactile or clicky Alps switch).

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keycap

21 Feb 2017, 18:45

I've tried click-modding Orange Alps by using a click leaf from White Alps.

Worth it.

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fohat
Elder Messenger

21 Feb 2017, 19:25

keycap wrote: I've tried click-modding Orange Alps by using a click leaf from White Alps.

Worth it.
I put orange tactile leaves and springs into white Alps.

Also worth it.

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Chyros

21 Feb 2017, 19:42

With regards to swap-modding, I'd suggest making combinations that have as many first-generation parts in them as possible, because they're all better.

cumwagondeluxe

21 Feb 2017, 19:48

What's the difference between oranges with a white click leaf, and oranges alps that've had the tabs on the tactile leaf removed? I modded a loose cream damped switch I had lying around by removing the tabs on the leaf and bending it forward a bit more for some added tactility/clickiness and have really enjoyed playing around with it so far. Kind of tempted to do something similar with some oranges I have lying around but I'll probably hold off if swapping in a white click leaf is superior to just breaking the tabs.

codemonkeymike

21 Feb 2017, 20:19

Whites wiki/File:Alps.tw_Type_BA1_--_Alps_whit ... icated.jpg
Oranges wiki/File:Alps.tw_Type_BA2_--_Alps_orange.jpg

Look at the click leaf in the picture you will notice on the whites that they have a little bump on the back of the click leaf

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//gainsborough
ALPSの日常

22 Feb 2017, 06:38

codemonkeymike wrote: Whites wiki/File:Alps.tw_Type_BA1_--_Alps_whit ... icated.jpg
Oranges wiki/File:Alps.tw_Type_BA2_--_Alps_orange.jpg

Look at the click leaf in the picture you will notice on the whites that they have a little bump on the back of the click leaf

I assume this is the "knocker" Chyros was talking about?

Today I purchased a relatively new looking zkb-2 from a seller on mechmarket (shoutout to SJHL) with yellow alps (it has the tree logo though...) and also a cheap fk-2001 with, what looks to be, pine alps from ebay! I'm excited for my next click-modification project! This time I'll take pictures along the way, haha.

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Chyros

23 Feb 2017, 11:25

//gainsborough wrote:
codemonkeymike wrote: Whites wiki/File:Alps.tw_Type_BA1_--_Alps_whit ... icated.jpg
Oranges wiki/File:Alps.tw_Type_BA2_--_Alps_orange.jpg

Look at the click leaf in the picture you will notice on the whites that they have a little bump on the back of the click leaf

I assume this is the "knocker" Chyros was talking about?
Yes, that's what I call the knocker. It focuses the clicker on one specific point, rather than using the whole back of the leaf as click-modded tactile Alps would.
Today I purchased a relatively new looking zkb-2 from a seller on mechmarket (shoutout to SJHL) with yellow alps (it has the tree logo though...) and also a cheap fk-2001 with, what looks to be, pine alps from ebay! I'm excited for my next click-modification project! This time I'll take pictures along the way, haha.
Are you sure that's a ZKB-2? It sounds like a 163-73 ;) .

Also, was the Focus black by any chance? :p

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//gainsborough
ALPSの日常

23 Feb 2017, 19:38

Chyros wrote: Are you sure that's a ZKB-2? It sounds like a 163-73 ;) .

Also, was the Focus black by any chance? :p
I actually am curious myself, hahaha. It was $90 - and I figure, if it's a zkb-2 that's a great deal for an almost new one! If it's a 163-67 at least it has PBT caps, and it's still nice looking. I actually asked him if the back was metal, but he's been away from his home - hoping to hear back from him today, and hoping he gets around to shipping it today.

The focus was this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/152444311493?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT

looks like pine switches =)

Also, there's a black focus?! I want one!

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Chyros

23 Feb 2017, 22:56

//gainsborough wrote:
Chyros wrote: Are you sure that's a ZKB-2? It sounds like a 163-73 ;) .

Also, was the Focus black by any chance? :p
I actually am curious myself, hahaha. It was $90 - and I figure, if it's a zkb-2 that's a great deal for an almost new one! If it's a 163-67 at least it has PBT caps, and it's still nice looking. I actually asked him if the back was metal, but he's been away from his home - hoping to hear back from him today, and hoping he gets around to shipping it today.

The focus was this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/152444311493?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT

looks like pine switches =)

Also, there's a black focus?! I want one!
That's a nice price for sure.

I've been eyeing a black 2001, with the help of several forum members. TWICE one's slipped my hands now, apparently it's my unobtainium. I NEED it.

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//gainsborough
ALPSの日常

24 Feb 2017, 05:52

I'll keep an eye out for you!

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//gainsborough
ALPSの日常

24 Feb 2017, 20:53

So that focus came in the mail today. It was packaged super nicely and it looks almost brand new to me - save for the borken tabs on the bottom right-hand corner of the case, which honestly doesn't bother me that much. I bought the board it's switches mainly - the plan was to use the white alps click-leaves and top housing for my zkb-2 mod (whenever my zkb-2 gets shipped, that is...)

But upon typing on the focus, something immediately felt different..

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There was no bottoming out sound. It felt soft when I depressed keys all the way.

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Looks like white dampened alps!! And even cream dampened ones (?!) And wait, orange alps as well? What the hell is going on here!? As far as I've checked, this board has 3 different switches in it! But 4 different switch innards.

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The number keys on both the numbad and above the alpha block seem to all be cream alps (or ivory - I'm not sure what name these alps switches go by), and the alpha block is all white-dampened alps. the F-keys and nav-cluster are all click-modded orange alps (but not the way I did it on the m0116 - they seem to use hypersphere's click-mod, as the clickers have a knocker on them). All the keys click, actually - except for "print screen," "scroll lock," and "pause." Those 3 keys are linear modded orange - there is no tactile or click leaf in those switches.

I honestly want to keep the board how it is! I'm super excited about it, because I prior to this morning, I didn't have any dampened alps switches at all - so this was a very cool surprise! Obviously the previous owner (or the previous, previous owner) of this board custom made this board to his/her liking - or was simply experimenting with different switch mods. Either way, for $20 I would consider this an awesome pick-up!

Luckily, I also ordered a for-parts acer 6011 with white alps switches for $10 - so I'll use that board for the zkb-2 project!

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ohaimark
Kingpin

24 Feb 2017, 20:57

That is f'n bizarre, man. Cool find. I'd message the previous owner to chat about its history.

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Hypersphere

26 Feb 2017, 00:11

@//gainsborough: I see from your recent post that you will soon be getting an Acer 6011 for parts. I will also be getting one whose cable has been cut, but I am thinking of using the intact keyboard. If yours has an intact cable and if you can determine the pin assignments on the PCB header, please let me know. Thanks.

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Chyros

26 Feb 2017, 01:11

Are there any traces of re-soldering? If these are genuine factory-made then the 2001 might well take the lead as board with the most different types of switches it came with xD .

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//gainsborough
ALPSの日常

26 Feb 2017, 03:04

@hypersphere I'll let you know what I find when it arrives!

@chyros I didn't check that - I have company over for the weekend but I'll check it out when I get the chance - focus would be awesome if they customized their keyboards that much

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Chyros

26 Feb 2017, 03:05

//gainsborough wrote: @hypersphere I'll let you know what I find when it arrives!

@chyros I didn't check that - I have company over for the weekend but I'll check it out when I get the chance - focus would be awesome if they customized their keyboards that much
I was thinking more of a previous owner having customised it tbh xD .

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//gainsborough
ALPSの日常

26 Feb 2017, 03:23

That's my guess too - I fully expect to see resoldering evidence.

I forgot to mention, I took ohaimark's advice and emailed the dude I bought it from. He evidently picked it up at a recycling center, and only had it for a month before deciding to sell it. No mention of customizing it, so my guess is the person who had it before the recycling center fixed it up. My new question though: why would you spend time resoldering a bunch of switches but then decide to recycle it?

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dokyun

26 Feb 2017, 05:45

Hypersphere wrote: Has anyone here tried putting click leaves from Matias Click switches into any linear or tactile Alps switches? (Of course, to install a click leaf in a linear Alps switch, it is also necessary to install a top housing from a tactile or clicky Alps switch).
I decided to try this out since I've been wondering it myself and - yes, they went into some SKCM oranges. I've no blue Alps nearby to compare them to directly, but the sound is similar...maybe as loud as Matias. The springs will transfer as well, but at least with oranges they don't seem to make any appreciable difference in weighting.

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//gainsborough
ALPSの日常

02 Mar 2017, 00:16

(UPDATE)

My Zenith came today - and much to my surprise: it's a zkb-2! I started really thinking that it might actually be a 163-73 after Chyros had the same thought, which honestly would have been fine with me, since I don't have one of those, but the steel back-panel doesn't lie!

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So I broke out my older ZKB-2 (which is the first vintage mechanical keyboard I ever bought - it's the keyboard that honestly started this whole hobby) to compare them.

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They seem the same weight, but I don't have a scale to actually weigh them. They're only 11 months apart in age. The older logo board has a manufacture date of May 1989, while the newer logo board has a manufacture date of June 1990. The condition of the older logo board is very good. Since it was my first board I didn't do too much to it, other than attempt to retrobrighten the keycaps, which obviously failed. The condition of the newer logo board, though, is practically brand new and unused. It is, hands down, the best condition vintage board I own. I thought the switches would feel drastically different than the older logo board, but they feel almost identical. I'm gonna chalk it up to the assumption that the older logo board, while obviously yellowed, is just in great condition as well - though, this could just be a feature of linear alps (that they age better than tactile or clicky alps), I have no idea.

Here they are together:

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These are such great boards. Construction quality and all! I would love to have one with green alps. =)

So now I don't know what to do. I bought this board to click-mod it using hypersphere's method... but it's in such good condition! So here's my question to anyone who reads this: which one would you click-mod? The newer board is basically unused, and I don't know if I want to change anything about it - even the logo (while objectively shit when compared to the older one) has it's charm. At the same time, the older board is classic Zenith! Do I really want to strip an older-logo zenith of it's intended linear glory? I think I'm leaning towards actually modifying the older board - but I definitely would like to hear anyone's opinion on the matter!

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Hypersphere

02 Mar 2017, 00:28

@//gainsborough:

Click-modding is reversible and not as drastic as, for example, harvesting switches. So, I would go with your own preferences. If you will get more use out of either board by converting the linear switches to clicky ones, then go for it.

In my own situation, I have a Zenith 163-73 with SKCL yellow Alps. I converted these to hybrid clicky switches by swapping the tops for those from pine white Alps and installing click leaves from the same pine white Alps switches. It works great, and because I much prefer tactile/clicky switches to linear ones, I am getting much more use out it than I would have by leaving it unmodified.

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//gainsborough
ALPSの日常

02 Mar 2017, 16:54

@hypersphere - I think I've decided to mod the older logo one =) And your words of encouragement to mod things so that I would get more use has inspired me to do something with my black alps wang as well. Have you modded black alps before? I was thinking of doing something like using white alps click leaves with orange sliders.

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