IBM Model-F-like keyboard designs

[wobbled]

Having never used anything past 100% those macros would be handy as hell, I've just never come across a board that I would enjoy using and that has multiple macro keys. F122 being the closest thing but it's still not ideal.

Also nothing wrong with your signature, I just found it hilarious that you remember to type it at the end of every message

[RickCHodgin]

F122 being the closest thing but it's still not ideal.

If the F122 were more like a traditional keyboard layout, such that you could just plug it in and it would workd like regular 104/107 key keyboards, then have the extra function keys and a few extra keys, then it would be great. But as it requires a completely different driver to use properly, it's much more difficult to use.

The UKM Model G keyboards will be more like the traditional keyboards, with the extra keys being defined into normal key space, so even if they don't translate to their exact functionality, the keystroke will be unique and it can be intercepted by apps.

Also nothing wrong with your signature, I just found it hilarious that you remember to type it at the end of every message

It's weird. I have signed so many things that way for so long it's really automatic. I'm also a very fast typist, so it doesn't take any effort. I'll try to remember though.

[wobbled]

Plus with the F122 you lose some keys because of the weird arrow key layour so then you have to remap some of the PF keys on the top row to make up for the loss of a standard layout and the top layer of PF keys is already reserves for F1-12. Anyway, looking forward to having a standard layout with available macro keys! good luck mate.

[RickCHodgin]

Anyway, looking forward to having a standard layout with available macro keys!

Me too.

good luck mate.

Thank you. I'm very excited to work on this project. I can only imagine the day I hold a 312-key production line product in my hands. It will be all shiny and have that new keyboard smell. LOL

[wobbled]

Anyway, looking forward to having a standard layout with available macro keys!

Me too.

good luck mate.

Thank you. I'm very excited to work on this project. I can only imagine the day I hold a 312-key production line product in my hands. It will be all shiny and have that new keyboard smell. LOL

Man 312 keys... Absolutely crazy. I can just have dedicated keys to open my most used websites, I have a feeling these keyboards will make me very lazy

I know exactly what you mean about the new product smell, I must've had my head inside the macbook pro box for a good half hour.

[RickCHodgin]

PMS: Sacrilegiously, I'm glad your F battleship bit the soldering iron in the name of UKM.

I was confused by this statement, but I think I may have it now. Do you mean that you're glad my initial attempted Model F-122 repair failed, and thus ultimately produced this entire new product endeavor with the Model G's and D's and E's?

If so, me too. Had I gotten that F-122 working, I might've been content.

I had planned to have the keyboard driver done by the end of June, but it's looking like the end of July now. I spent an inordinate amount of time trying to get the Lattice Semiconductor hardware working. Once I do though, I'll probably have about everything else in place.

[hoaryhag]

PMS: Sacrilegiously, I'm glad your F battleship bit the soldering iron in the name of UKM.

I was confused by this statement, but I think I may have it now. Do you mean that you're glad my initial attempted Model F-122 repair failed, and thus ultimately produced this entire new product endeavor with the Model G's and D's and E's?

If so, me too. Had I gotten that F-122 working, I might've been content.

I had planned to have the keyboard driver done by the end of June, but it's looking like the end of July now. I spent an inordinate amount of time trying to get the Lattice Semiconductor hardware working. Once I do though, I'll probably have about everything else in place.

Sorry for the silliness in my previous post, but ya that's exactly what I meant. I'm mostly a forums lurker, but when I saw your project I got excited and had to sign in and throw a post your way. I like the fact that you are going into production for yourself. I am not the type of person to get into group buys unless they are short. When I shell out the cash I want a product without having to wait six months to a year. Ellipse's Kishsaver and 77 key Model F repros are too long of a wait for me, and I missed out on the Model MF group buy project, that was then put on hiatus anyway. I realize your switches won't be exact IBM clones, but they may be close enough that it won't matter. I like your from the ground up thinking, and even though I've never met you, from your posts I believe you have the aptitude, diligence, and perseverance to get this thing done and give us something we've not seen before. All the best!

[RickCHodgin]

I realize your switches won't be exact IBM clones, but they may be close enough that it won't matter.

I have in mind to at some point use the original IBM key barrel design and full clicky sound. I would call them "Model Gb" and "Model Db" with the "b" added in there for "buckling spring" of course, but also to play off the musical not reference, like it's a G-flat and D-flat ... i.e. just a little off-tune behind the true sound of the UKM Model G's and Model D's.

That will be a year or so after I begin production using my own switches. I'm calling mine UKM "Glides," and they'll be available for sale independently of the keyboards as well fully assembled, ready to mount. I'll also sell my capacitance PCBs and controllers (which are fairly generic and just require some USB programming to set custom values). People can then manufacture any-sized custom-designed PCBs (up to 18" square) for any unusual key layout they'd like. Literally, using this UKM design and several hours of their custom research and design, buying the right parts, and they'll be able to hook their layout up and design a keyboard directly into my controllers, keyboard driver, and hardware, creating any keyboard they like for any custom application. I've also made the entire keyboard design modular, so any new custom add-ons can be created and plugged in to replace the standard UKM models, so long as they have the common mounts.

The software I'm using for my key codes allows for a unique text string identifier per key (like I use "L1" and "U8" and so on), but they can be labeled anything you like, allowing for a true potential for a robust experience where the keys coming back to the controller use text words like "Enable" and "EmergencyStop", etc.

I'd love to start taking pre-orders for these keyboards so I could quit my job and devote full-time to this project, but I don't have anything real to show for it yet, not even a working prototype ... just an idea, a belief, and an end goal that's slowly getting closer.

I like your from the ground up thinking, and even though I've never met you, from your posts I believe you have the aptitude, diligence, and perseverance to get this thing done and give us something we've not seen before. All the best!

Thank you. Everyone whose taken the time to hear me out on this project so far has sat there after I've finished the spiel ... their wheels churning for a moment. They ponder the ramifications of such a device and over the next five minutes ask me questions as they occur to them at a relatively slow cadence while they're taking it all in. I've come to identify it as "The UKM Moment." LOL

It's been really nice to have such positive feedback from many people from different backgrounds.

[RickCHodgin]

Finalized keyboard dimensions:

Code: Select all

Model G1 Ultralight -- 17.3" x 7.9"
Model G2 Purelight --- 18.9" x 8.7"
Model G3 Trilight ---- 18.9" x 9.4"

Model D1 Beacon ------ 23.7" x 7.9"
Model D2 Publisher --- 26.3" x 8.7"
Model D3 Illuminator - 29.5" x 9.4"

I had a poster printed at Vistaprint to full dimensions. The Model D3 is a formidable presence on the desk, but the key placement is nice. The rotation of the arms at the elbow extends the wrists out nicely to both sides of the keyboard. I think ergonomically it will not be any kind of burden to use, especially when the intent is to have the hands lingering in the single area for relatively long periods of time due to the high number of keys which provide a large amount of work in those areas.

[hoaryhag]

I couldn't recall if you had mentioned it already, but what material do you plan to make the keyboard cases from? Also, will we be able to customize the color of the UKM logo?

[RickCHodgin]

I couldn't recall if you had mentioned it already, but what material do you plan to make the keyboard cases from?

I haven't decided yet. There was a type of plastic I used at a previous job, and I'm mentally targeting something similar. The first prototypes I manufacture will be wooden tops with a welded steel base mount. Eventually I plan to use that sheet plastic laser cut to size, heat formed around bends, industrial glue bonded together with strategically placed mounts allowing for multi-surface mating, as well as strength where needed, all atop a formed / pressed steel base mount.

I have to target the needs of manufacturing, so some design considerations are required. I've actually considered how I could use 2" plastic strips to form everything. I think it's doable, but I think I want UKM products to have a really nice appearance, so I'm going to spend some extra time and effort doing it right.

Also, will we be able to customize the color of the UKM logo?

The initial UKM logos will be laser etched metal without any coloring. I may also adopt that form officially for product labels, while keeping the UKM logo and coloring for website and GUI applications.

[RickCHodgin]

What are some features you all would like to see
by default with the extra keys along the left on the Model Gs, and up on top and along the left and right on the Model Ds?

I have these ideas:

Code: Select all

UKM (one-button access to bring up the GUI Interface and cheat sheets)
Cut (Ctrl+X by default)
Copy (Ctrl+C by default)
Paste (Ctrl+V by default)
Open (Ctrl+O by default)
Close (Ctrl+W by default)
Save (Ctrl+S by default)
Desktop (internal OS code)
Next Window (internal OS code, brings mouse pointer to window as well)
Prev Window (internal OS code, brings mouse pointer to window as well)
Volume up
Volume down
Mute
Record [O]
Play |>
Stop [ ]
Pause ||
Forward >>
<< Rewind
< Skip
Skip >

Here's the layout I've come up with for the Model D3 Illuminator. The non-labeled keys will be filled with their standard layout as seen on the second image below.

You can see the new keys there in the green keys on the left side, and in the blue keys in the upper-right. You'll notice also the anchor key and clock key above the escape key.

These are intended for a feature I have planned for making timed snapshots of files, and then the clock allows a user to go back to prior saved versions, perform differences between versions, etc. Anchor plans to be a type of Git-like version control system, but with a more hierarchical layout using depots (instead of repositories) and having versions and uploads by date and time rather than SHA-1 value.





I would appreciate any feedback. Thank you.

[RickCHodgin]

Also, will we be able to customize the color of the UKM logo?

I've given this idea some more thought. I think it would be possible for people to upload their own custom logo to replace the UKM logo and have it laser etched. I would provide a utility that lets a color image be loaded into a simple editor which has some adjustments to allow its translation into the black-and-white version that would laser etch, with a reasonable preview facsimile being provided on-screen.

I think it's a good idea, and not too much more difficult than having the UKM logo.

I've also had the idea of allowing custom identifying marks laser etched onto each keyboard as well, like a person's name, the company logo, etc. I'm thinking it would be on the underneath side where the model and serial number will go. It could be a 480 x 200 image that can be filled with anything that's etched at the time the manufacturing stamp is etched.

[hoaryhag]

I really like the idea of the Anchor and Time keys; being able to manipulate a file anywhere along a timeline of its evolution from just a key press.
Engraved metal plate logos with possible customization sounds great to me.

[depletedvespene]

Quick question here, and forgive me if this idea has been debated to death beforehand:

Instead of making different models of each keyboard, some more massive than others, how about making a truly modular keyboard, where each cluster is a single unit, each of which can then be mounted or unmounted into place as the user wants?

For example, the simplest model (G) could be composed of four basic units: alphanumeric cluster, nav cluster, numpad cluster and F-row cluster. The user could lock into place each piece following the usual shape (alpha+F-row; nav; numpad) or, say, move them around as wanted (for example, I'd like to put the nav cluster to the left, like in this design of mine: http://imgur.com/b55JteR ).

Extra clusters could afterwards be mounted when needed and tucked away when not. For example, I could have a green L-cluster programmed to function as an "hex numpad" and only mount it whenever I actually need to manually type large amounts of hex numbers. The regular numpad could go away when not heavily used, so the mouse can be closer to my right hand. I could keep a specifically programmed "macro" secondary F-row stored until I need to access those macros in a coding session.

Practice typing? Sure, switch the regular staggered alphanum cluster with a ortholinear one. Back pain forces the user to buy an "ergonomic" keyboard? Let him or her simply replace the alphanumeric cluster with an ergonomic version and keep all the other modules functioning.

A "clustered keyboard" like this could be as small or as large as the user actually wanted at any moment (and would also be able to purchase each piece as the budget allowed).

[RickCHodgin]

Quick question here, and forgive me if this idea has been debated to death beforehand:

Instead of making different models of each keyboard, some more massive than others, how about making a truly modular keyboard, where each cluster is a single unit, each of which can then be mounted or unmounted into place as the user wants?

That's a good idea. And ... that is how it's designed.

See this photo. You'll see seven distinct and separate components. The arrows indicate how they are connected. These are swapped out as needed on each model, with the ability to create custom add-on components which share the same mating interface so that custom applications of keyboard pads can be added to the core / central QWERTY component:

[Chyros]

Finalized keyboard dimensions:

Code: Select all

Model G1 Ultralight -- 17.3" x 7.9"
Model G2 Purelight --- 18.9" x 8.7"
Model G3 Trilight ---- 18.9" x 9.4"

Model D1 Beacon ------ 23.7" x 7.9"
Model D2 Publisher --- 26.3" x 8.7"
Model D3 Illuminator - 29.5" x 9.4"

I had a poster printed at Vistaprint to full dimensions. The Model D3 is a formidable presence on the desk, but the key placement is nice. The rotation of the arms at the elbow extends the wrists out nicely to both sides of the keyboard. I think ergonomically it will not be any kind of burden to use, especially when the intent is to have the hands lingering in the single area for relatively long periods of time due to the high number of keys which provide a large amount of work in those areas.

I keep forgetting to reply to this, but are you sure the D3 would be _JUST_ 29.5 inches wide? Just looking at the layout it would seems like it'd be almost a metre really Oo .

[RickCHodgin]

I keep forgetting to reply to this, but are you sure the D3 would be _JUST_ 29.5 inches wide? Just looking at the layout it would seems like it'd be almost a metre really Oo .

You're right. I used the incorrect graphic for arriving at those values. In re-measuring everything just now here are the actual sizes, but these are subject to what I'm doing right now which is working on the actual key position layout and wire routing for every key. That will solidify the final design dimensions when completed:

Code: Select all

Model G1 Ultralight -- 19.9" x 7.9"
Model G2 Purelight --- 21.8" x 8.7"
Model G3 Trilight ---- 21.8" x 9.4"

Model D1 Beacon ------ 27.4" x 7.9"
Model D2 Publisher --- 30.3" x 8.7"
Model D3 Illuminator - 34.0" x 9.4"

[FoxWolf1]

I was originally going to allow full key rollover, but I think I'll limit those to auxiliary keys (shift, ctrl, alt, aux keys) and just do the rest by row/col.

I may be the only person who feels this way, but I'd certainly appreciate having full rollover. Ideally, I'd like to be able to use the same keyboard for work, play, and their intersection. What gets in the way is that the "play" side of things, for me, sometimes involves ancient and/or badly-designed games that have much higher rollover demands than more mainstream (or just more sensible) software.

You're right. I used the incorrect graphic for arriving at those values. In re-measuring everything just now here are the actual sizes, but these are subject to what I'm doing right now which is working on the actual key position layout and wire routing for every key. That will solidify the final design dimensions when completed:

Code: Select all

Model G1 Ultralight -- 19.9" x 7.9"
Model G2 Purelight --- 21.8" x 8.7"
Model G3 Trilight ---- 21.8" x 9.4"

Model D1 Beacon ------ 27.4" x 7.9"
Model D2 Publisher --- 30.3" x 8.7"
Model D3 Illuminator - 34.0" x 9.4"

Those D-series boards are pretty big...but I did a quick check with my tape measure, and I think I could just about handle a D1.

Still, have you thought at all about an even smaller three-stick model, for users who want thorough pointing-device coverage and some extra keys while still having enough room also for a right-handed user to use a regular mouse or trackball? I'd love to see something with a configuration kinda like this:

[RickCHodgin]

Still, have you thought at all about an even smaller three-stick model, for users who want thorough pointing-device coverage and some extra keys while still having enough room also for a right-handed user to use a regular mouse or trackball? I'd love to see something with a configuration kinda like this:

You could get close with a G1 (top keyboard) + E1 left hand (upper-left):

[Chyros]

I keep forgetting to reply to this, but are you sure the D3 would be _JUST_ 29.5 inches wide? Just looking at the layout it would seems like it'd be almost a metre really Oo .

You're right. I used the incorrect graphic for arriving at those values. In re-measuring everything just now here are the actual sizes, but these are subject to what I'm doing right now which is working on the actual key position layout and wire routing for every key. That will solidify the final design dimensions when completed:

Code: Select all

Model G1 Ultralight -- 19.9" x 7.9"
Model G2 Purelight --- 21.8" x 8.7"
Model G3 Trilight ---- 21.8" x 9.4"

Model D1 Beacon ------ 27.4" x 7.9"
Model D2 Publisher --- 30.3" x 8.7"
Model D3 Illuminator - 34.0" x 9.4"

34 inches. DAYUM, now we're talking! Noice.

[Wingklip]

Just about as long as my homework schedule

[seebart]

Just about as long as my homework schedule

[RickCHodgin]

You could get close with a G1 + E1:

I just realized that combination is shown here side-by-side at the top:

[RickCHodgin]

I like this design. I may consider its layout for a future keyboard, though I would lean toward only having two mouse inputs on the left pad, and qwerty pad.

I have also considered introducing a new Model C (for Console), which would be more of a round keyboard that has groupings of related keys in a round pattern, taking up less side-to-side space on the desktop, but more depth. It would also include an optional trackball and dedicated large sketch-mouse pad for delicate work with a stylus.

I can't find an exact match of what I'm thinking about, but it would be rounded in this manner, just with a little less aggressive transition from flat to vertical:



Just imagine it continuing around in a full rainbow arc from the left-side pad to the right-side pad as would be on a Model D1 Beacon, with more keys going in front in the larger arc of the rainbow, and also up higher. The large sketch-mouse pad would be on the right-side next to the numeric keys. The optional trackball would take up space on the left side where some of the keys are there up above.

[Techno Trousers]

Big ass enter key making a comeback? Yikes.

[depletedvespene]

Quick question here, and forgive me if this idea has been debated to death beforehand:

Instead of making different models of each keyboard, some more massive than others, how about making a truly modular keyboard, where each cluster is a single unit, each of which can then be mounted or unmounted into place as the user wants?

That's a good idea. And ... that is how it's designed.
………

I see that you internally do that, but not externally, so to speak. So, instead of building and then shipping a massive "Model D1" or a "Model G2" physical keyboard, build and sell a bunch of differing modules (then assembled by the user as if they were LEGO pieces, so to speak). In this way, the "Model D1", "Model G2", etc., would not physically exist as single, material objects, but actually as "common cluster configurations".

IMHO, this would make viable the design and construction of keyboards as large as wanted to, with even more distinct modules to choose from. Some ideas:

- Separate nav and numpad clusters, unlike the designs seen so far.
- Generic {2|3|4|5}×{3|4|5|6|7} key clusters; the user could then purchase the 6..28 keycaps needed for his specific design.
- A "minimal" alpha (not alphanum) cluster, intended for a secondary language. Imagine a Greek-English translator, with the main alphanum cluster in English, with the secondary alpha (plugged directly to its left) set to output Greek.
- A left-side F-cluster (for those who still like the Model F layout).
- A "hex cluster", specialized for inputting large amounts of hexadecimal numbers (I'd have KILLED someone to have that several years ago).
- A trackpad cluster, for those people who like that.
- Versions of each module with and without pointing devices.
- Some of the more common stuff could be sold ready-made (the numpad cluster is the perfect example of this).

This would also make the whole thing more robust against failures. Spilled a drink and killed the numpad? Get only a new numpad, instead of a full keyboard!

Damn, I keep dreaming up possibilites for this!

[depletedvespene]

Damn, I keep dreaming up possibilites for this!

Another one: "null" modules that only serve as separators, *with an angle*. So in my previous example about the translator, the Greek alpha cluster wouldn't be straight to the left, but in, say, 15 degrees so that the user would be more comfortable switching to and from that cluster to the main alpha cluster.

[RickCHodgin]

I see that you internally do that, but not externally, so to speak. So, instead of building and then shipping a massive "Model D1" or a "Model G2" physical keyboard, build and sell a bunch of differing modules (then assembled by the user as if they were LEGO pieces, so to speak). In this way, the "Model D1", "Model G2", etc., would not physically exist as single, material objects, but actually as "common cluster configurations".

From a prior post:

...after I begin production using my own switches. I'm calling mine UKM "Glides," and 1) they'll be available for sale independently of the keyboards as well fully assembled, ready to mount. I'll also 2) sell my capacitance PCBs and controllers (which are fairly generic and just require some USB programming to set custom values). People can then manufacture any-sized custom-designed PCBs (up to 18" square) for any unusual key layout they'd like. Literally, using this UKM design and several hours of their custom research and design, buying the right parts, and they'll be able to 3) hook their layout up and design a keyboard directly into my controllers, keyboard driver, and hardware, creating any keyboard they like for any custom application. I've also 4) made the entire keyboard design modular, so any new custom add-ons can be created and plugged in to replace the standard UKM models, so long as they have the common mounts...

The ability to do everything custom is there. People will be able to buy or download the design and create their own custom implementations of everything I'm doing. I'm just manufacturing the parts and products and selling them so that other people don't have to invest the labor time.

My goal is to design, manufacture, and sell keyboards and parts. I also want to provide the hardware interface and write all of the software drivers necessary to allow people to buy these individual custom parts and make custom PCBs of any size for any purpose.

Anybody with some technical savvy would be able to build whatever keyboards they want to using these fundamental resources.

[RickCHodgin]

This would also make the whole thing more robust against failures. Spilled a drink and killed the numpad? Get only a new numpad, instead of a full keyboard!

That is in the design. Every piece used in manufacturing, and in the production and manufacture of each component, will be available for individual resale. You'll be able to replace a single switch if it goes bad, as it will not be integrated into the design but will be modular. It will require some effort to remove, but it can be removed. You'll be able to replace individual components as shown in the drawing. You'll be able to modify the case and stick a D3 left keypad on a Model G1 if you so desire, etc.

You will see when it is complete. It is a very comprehensive design. I'm doing it the way that I would like to see something done for me to use and have complete access to and ownership of the device, rather than being subject to things like planned obsolescence. I want people to buy my keyboards, and continue using them for 50 years, only replacing consumable parts over time.