Northgate/Alps...

[Polecat]

Just found an interesting (to me, at least) Northgate keyboard, $8 on ebay. This is not an Omnikey, but instead probably an OEM board that came with a system. It's really a Lite-On SK-0002-1U (Silitek), but with a small Northgate logo. Otherwise nothing special. Badly but evenly yellowed, double shot caps, white Alps SKCM switches, gratuitous Lotus 1-2-3 stickers, seems to be in decent shape otherwise.

Most interesting is the paper label on the back, with a Northgate (5xx,xxxx) model number, a different serial number, and date. This is a smaller paper label than the ones on the Omnikeys, but otherwise very similar.

<<<Speculation Alert!!!>>> Were these paper labels added by Northgate? Would this explain why the dates on the Omnikeys don't exactly correspond to the switch type? Is this why many Northgate keyboards have two serial numbers--one from the manufacturer, and one from Northgate?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I'm more intrigued by the bizarre model number: SK-0002-1U.

(What is 1U anyway — 101 US?)

I didn't realise Lite-On had bought Silitek that early on, and model 0002 as late as 1991? Strange.

But then, there's cherry-jade's 1984 Dah Yang keyboard … I had no idea Dah Yang went back that far either.

[Polecat]

I'm more intrigued by the bizarre model number: SK-0002-1U.

(What is 1U anyway — 101 US?)

I didn't realise Lite-On had bought Silitek that early on, and model 0002 as late as 1991? Strange.

But then, there's cherry-jade's 1984 Dah Yang keyboard … I had no idea Dah Yang went back that far either.

I didn't realize it was an unusual model number. It's in the Wiki:

wiki/Lite-On_SK-0002

And Sandy has a page featuring a similar model:

http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/win.html

Sandy's is branded "Win", and that appears on the label where mine and the Wiki's say Lite-On. Wiki says that model came out in 1990.

Could it be the other way around - Silitek as the manufacturer, and Lite-On (and Win) as the retail brand name? Lite-On was a popular supplier of parts for computer hobbyists. Their power supplies were the only ones I'd use in the custom systems I was building back in the '90s.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I'm wondering now if the serial number starts with the year of manufacture — the examples so far are close enough.

Lite-On own Silitek, but I don't appear to have any more accurate details than that.

Sandy's is actually 00A2, not 0002. I just find the model numbers odd as they suggest the beginning of Silitek as a keyboard manufacturer. Then you have [wiki]Silitek SK-4100R-1U[/wiki] from around the same time (1992).

I wonder if there's another logo under where Northgate put theirs. It does appear that Northgate bought and re-badged a stock product. If this was made for Northgate, would their name appear on the label on the back (like with the Win keyboard)?

[rich1051414]

Isn't Silitek a white label producer of products? That LiteOn model sticker, by virtue of having 'LiteOn' on the label, is clearly a relabel.

I assume northgate contracted LiteOn for a limited run of keyboards, who contracted Silitek for the work, who fulfilled it with back stock, LiteOn then just stuck a fresh product Sku on the limited run, then delivered it to Northgate?

I didn't think LiteOn owned Silitek at all. From what I understand, LiteOn was simply a primary customer of Silitek, but so is a lot of companies.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I assume that the reason that no details are given on the wiki is because, at the time of writing, it was obvious from the fact that the Silitek website was operated by Lite-On. You can see this here — http://web.archive.org/web/201103072047 ... index.aspx — that site has since been closed, and now some Japanese company owns it.

I seem to recall reading elsewhere about Lite-On buying Silitek, but I don't remember anything about it now. I suspect I had better things to worry about.

However, the Silitek name is still used, as you can see from the [wiki]Dell KB216[/wiki] (I think this is still the current OptiPlex keyboard).

From my very limited understanding of KCC, the first company listed is the exterior face of the enterprise, and the second company listed is who actually operates the factory:

http://telcontar.net/KBK/KCC.php

In this case, Dell will be dealing with Lite-On, but the factory making these keyboards is run by a subsidiary of Lite-On still operating as Silitek.

For example (as per the page above) NMB keyboards were made by Shunding, but Shunding was a subsidiary of NMB, that is now closed (as NMB finally left the keyboard market).

[Polecat]

I'm wondering now if the serial number starts with the year of manufacture — the examples so far are close enough.

Lite-On own Silitek, but I don't appear to have any more accurate details than that.

Sandy's is actually 00A2, not 0002. I just find the model numbers odd as they suggest the beginning of Silitek as a keyboard manufacturer. Then you have [wiki]Silitek SK-4100R-1U[/wiki] from around the same time (1992).

I wonder if there's another logo under where Northgate put theirs. It does appear that Northgate bought and re-badged a stock product. If this was made for Northgate, would their name appear on the label on the back (like with the Win keyboard)?

I double checked the model number, and it's indeed 0002 on mine (slashed zeroes, not the letter O). The FCC on mine and Sandy's are both 0002 (again zeroes). Interesting that the model number would have a number on one version and a letter on another. I'll compare my PC board to Sandy's to see if there's any internal difference.

The stripe with the Northgate logo is a snap-in plastic insert, like the ones on Focus and Northgate Omnikey boards. I slipped it out and carefully peeled back the Northgate enough to see a blue "L" under there, no doubt Lite On. No way to know if Silitek or Northgate did the rebranding, but whomever it was they didn't put much effort into it. Lite On keyboards were available as a retail item, so for all we know Northgate could have bought them at the corner computer store and stuck their name on them. Unlikely, but remotely possible. In twenty-some years of playing with Alps and Northgate keyboards this is the only time I've ever seen one rebranded by Northgate this way. Of course the stripe or logo would have been easily removed or lost.

I believe the serial number does reflect the year of manufacture. I've found several examples online, all from 90 to 93 so far.

[Polecat]

I double checked the model number, and it's indeed 0002 on mine (slashed zeroes, not the letter O). The FCC on mine and Sandy's are both 0002 (again zeroes). Interesting that the model number would have a number on one version and a letter on another. I'll compare my PC board to Sandy's to see if there's any internal difference.

The stripe with the Northgate logo is a snap-in plastic insert, like the ones on Focus and Northgate Omnikey boards. I slipped it out and carefully peeled back the Northgate enough to see a blue "L" under there, no doubt Lite On. No way to know if Silitek or Northgate did the rebranding, but whomever it was they didn't put much effort into it. Lite On keyboards were available as a retail item, so for all we know Northgate could have bought them at the corner computer store and stuck their name on them. Unlikely, but remotely possible. In twenty-some years of playing with Alps and Northgate keyboards this is the only time I've ever seen one rebranded by Northgate this way. Of course the stripe or logo would have been easily removed or lost.

I believe the serial number does reflect the year of manufacture. I've found several examples online, all from 90 to 93 so far.

Opened 'er up, no real surprises inside. Mold date 11/25/1990. Silitek on the controller chip. SK-0002 legend on the pc board. The board itself looks like the one on Sandy's site.

Anyone opening one of these up should be careful not to break the locking tabs on the case. These are similar to the tabs on a Focus FK-2001, but they are across the top edge instead of the bottom. Once the two snaps at the bottom are unlocked and the board turned rightside-up the front edge of the upper case can be hinged up until it's free of the lower case.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Interesting — that PCB code is very similar to the "PBAA5036" code from the SK-4100R-1U.

[Polecat]

Interesting — that PCB code is very similar to the "PBAA5036" code from the SK-4100R-1U.

Does the "S" in the parallelogram on the PC board stand for Silitek?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I think I've seen proper evidence of that being their logo. It's also the logo of Silitech who are not the same business as Silitek, but whose website gives the founding name of "Silitek". Silitech/Silitek/Lite-On is confusing.

[Polecat]

I think I've seen proper evidence of that being their logo. It's also the logo of Silitech who are not the same business as Silitek, but whose website gives the founding name of "Silitek". Silitech/Silitek/Lite-On is confusing.

Thanks, I found a related quote on Google, regarding a 1996 legal case, from a book on business law:

"Lite-On Peripherals, Inc. was a California-based corporation engaged in the computer hardware business. Lite-On's parent company was Silitek Corporation, a Taiwan-based corporation."

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Interesting — I felt sure that I read that Lite-On bought out Silitek, but now I really have to wonder. Maybe Silitek bought out Lite-On instead. (Lite-On is slightly older.) But then, it may be that Light-On Taiwan owned Silitek, and Silitek then owned the Lite-On US … Business makes things so much more complicated than it ever needed to be.

Same sort of story with Clare/Pendar — Clare bought Pendar and renamed it Clare-Pendar, but in France you had a separate Pendar (created some years later by Clare), and in Belgium you had some sort of separate Clare, while CP Clare itself was owned by General Instrument via some intermediate company, and GI and Clare products got entangled …

[rich1051414]

Interesting — I felt sure that I read that Lite-On bought out Silitek, but now I really have to wonder. Maybe Silitek bought out Lite-On instead. (Lite-On is slightly older.) But then, it may be that Light-On Taiwan owned Silitek, and Silitek then owned the Lite-On US … Business makes things so much more complicated than it ever needed to be.

Same sort of story with Clare/Pendar — Clare bought Pendar and renamed it Clare-Pendar, but in France you had a separate Pendar (created some years later by Clare), and in Belgium you had some sort of separate Clare, while CP Clare itself was owned by General Instrument via some intermediate company, and GI and Clare products got entangled …

The whole thing confuses me. I did find this though:

"In November 2002, the company, Lite-On Electronics Inc., Silitek Corporation and GVC Corporation, all member of the Lite-On Group, resolved to combine the four companies into one with Lite-On Technology Corporation as the surviving company after the merger and the remaining three as non-surviving companies."

This does confirm that prior to 2002, they were simply partners, not the same entity.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

One of the Siliteks still exists, as they make Lite-On keyboards, but not the same Silitek as other Silitek. And neither one is the same as Silitech with a "ch" … Great fun. I think I did know more at some stage, but I guess I didn't write it down.

[Polecat]

One of the Siliteks still exists, as they make Lite-On keyboards, but not the same Silitek as other Silitek. And neither one is the same as Silitech with a "ch" … Great fun. I think I did know more at some stage, but I guess I didn't write it down.

I have a feeling it's the same with Lite-On, or should we say Lite-Ons? In other words, Lite-On Peripherals is not the same, legally or corporately, as Lite-On Technology Corporation or Lite-On Group. Obviously they're related, but different entities as far as what they actually do. Silitek appears to be part of the Lite-On Group, but Lite-On Peripherals was owned by Silitek. So, do we go by the name on the factory that built the keyboards, or by the name on the corporate papers of whomever owned that factory, or by the name on the keyboards themselves, or by something else entirely? What I remember, having been there at the time, was that Lite-On was a retail brand name for keyboards and power supplies you could buy at the local computer store, much like Focus or Antec/Ancer.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

This is a major stumbling block for creating a keyboard database using a relational database (i.e. one where you have to strictly formalise the way data is stored). Industry is so tangled, that the same product may fall under multiple companies. For example, Alps SKBL/SKBM series was always a Forward Electronics product, but it has been branded as both Alps and Forward. Moreover, tooling can change ownership, as was the case with Strong Man and Datacomp. The same company can have more than one identity: Series 725 was created by Hi-Tek Corporation, who became NMB Hi-Tek, and finally simply the keyboard division of NMB (but separate from Shunding I guess).

As I recall, I received criticism for my data model, but nobody managed to come up with anything better.

The wiki is more flexible, as you can write whatever you want wherever you want. It's still awkward, but less constrictive. Sometimes you get lucky — [wiki]Unikey KWD-601[/wiki] is a separate page from NTC KB-6251, not just because of the change of ownership from NTC to Chicony/Unikey, but because it's the first variant with Windows keys, so you can make a stronger case for logical separation. However, with the wiki you can put keyboards into multiple categories, or write "Manufacturer: Silitek or Lite-On" or do various other things without needing to care about any data model. However, all this kind of abuse of infoboxes means that scraping infobox content becomes much harder as the data they contain is not formalised.

For a single keyboard, I'll simply use whatever name is written on it. If there are multiple conflicting examples, I'll group them by whoever started the product range.

[Polecat]

This is a major stumbling block for creating a keyboard database using a relational database (i.e. one where you have to strictly formalise the way data is stored). Industry is so tangled, that the same product may fall under multiple companies. For example, Alps SKBL/SKBM series was always a Forward Electronics product, but it has been branded as both Alps and Forward. Moreover, tooling can change ownership, as was the case with Strong Man and Datacomp. The same company can have more than one identity: Series 725 was created by Hi-Tek Corporation, who became NMB Hi-Tek, and finally simply the keyboard division of NMB (but separate from Shunding I guess).

As I recall, I received criticism for my data model, but nobody managed to come up with anything better.

The wiki is more flexible, as you can write whatever you want wherever you want. It's still awkward, but less constrictive. Sometimes you get lucky — [wiki]Unikey KWD-601[/wiki] is a separate page from NTC KB-6251, not just because of the change of ownership from NTC to Chicony/Unikey, but because it's the first variant with Windows keys, so you can make a stronger case for logical separation. However, with the wiki you can put keyboards into multiple categories, or write "Manufacturer: Silitek or Lite-On" or do various other things without needing to care about any data model. However, all this kind of abuse of infoboxes means that scraping infobox content becomes much harder as the data they contain is not formalised.

For a single keyboard, I'll simply use whatever name is written on it. If there are multiple conflicting examples, I'll group them by whoever started the product range.

Thanks, no criticism here, just asking out loud how manufacturer and brand names are dealt with. I'm pretty sure the Lite-On name on the keyboards represented Lite On Peripherals, which was the retail brand name, not the manufacturer. As you say that same keyboard was probably sold under several or many other brand names, and it appears there were multiple Lite-Ons (and Silitek/Silitechs). The keyboards mentioned in the 1996 business law book were sold to a company called "Reveal", quantity 5000, ordered "from Silitek". No mention of branding on the keyboards themselves. Lite-On Peripherals was "Silitek's assignee", and they were involved in the billing and credit approval. Apparently Reveal went bankrupt about that time, and never paid for the keyboards. Lite-On eventually recovered about half of the keyboards, and the district court found for Lite-On for some amount representing the unrecovered keyboards. Just mentioning all this in support of your comment that this stuff can indeed become quite complicated. Here's a link to the Google Books excerpt if anyone's interested:

https://books.google.com/books?id=feI1D ... rd&f=false