IBM model F XT not working suddenly

Kashtan

18 Aug 2019, 23:43

Today i first day working with new keyboard,
evening suddenly keyboard not response any button.
Im delete and return drivers, twice, reload triple, dissassembled the keyboard again and again, took out the plug and inserted it back. Sure i change usb port, all. Soarers converter seen always, all the good.
Last step - reinstall Windows.
I feel im lost few millions neurons...
I hope, will tell me, what happened, and how return to life my IBM Model F XT.
Best regards.
Igor.

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Muirium
µ

19 Aug 2019, 00:01

Windows won’t be the problem. The converter is where I would start. What kind of Soarer’s converter is it? External (maybe in a cable) or inside the keyboard?

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XMIT
[ XMIT ]

19 Aug 2019, 00:07

Even with a Soarer's converter you are still counting on 35 year old internal circuitry to perform matrix sensing.

First thing I'd try is connecting the keyboard to another computer. You mentioned Windows: check the Device Manager for an entry for the USB device that is the Soarer's Converter.

If you do open it, perhaps you could post some photos of the controller hardware. It's possible a capacitor has failed or something like this.

Reinstalling drivers or Windows is overkill here.

Good luck...

Kashtan

19 Aug 2019, 00:23

Converter there a external, from Philippines.
Windows installing auto few drivers, Soarers converter seen. Sound of connect always when a put to USB. My OS this a Windows 7 version 7601.

Kashtan

19 Aug 2019, 10:13

Spoiler:
1566202329788-902510684.jpg
1566202329788-902510684.jpg (1.26 MiB) Viewed 1261 times

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AJM

19 Aug 2019, 10:25

In case you use USB extension cables: You should try it without them.
I had a "Tinkerboy" Soarer's converter from the Philippines and it seemed to be sensitive to cable length.

If that's not it, try to move the original keyboard cable into different positions and check constantly, if some keypresses "get through". It could be, that a wire in the cable broke and in some positions it still makes contact. The part of the cable that is most prone to damages is where it comes out of the keyboard case.

Kashtan

19 Aug 2019, 11:03

I'm don't see a visually any deviation on controller.

Kashtan

19 Aug 2019, 11:08

Im not uses extension usb cables.
Any buttons not working in any position.

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Muirium
µ

19 Aug 2019, 11:13

Before it broke, did it type letters successfully to the PC?

If the converter is a Soarer converter, it should be able to probe the keyboard’s internal controller using hid_listen

Kashtan

19 Aug 2019, 11:37

Yes, all letters, all buttons workers just perfect.
hid listen ? How uses this command?

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Muirium
µ

19 Aug 2019, 11:54

I will let one of the Windows users here tell you. I don’t know that OS.

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Coco

19 Aug 2019, 16:59

Here's the link for HID Listen: https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/hid_listen.html

If you use Windows, click on "Windows executable."

Hope you're able to fix your XT!

consensual-penis

23 Aug 2019, 06:16

off topic, but would unplugging an adapted F XT cause any problems?

I know with keyboards of old that one wouldn't simply unplug a keyboard while the computer was on. Is that the case in this situation?

I am using a 5 pin to usb soarer's converter (I like the look of the chunky ass cable)

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Muirium
µ

23 Aug 2019, 08:52

consensual-penis wrote:
23 Aug 2019, 06:16
off topic, but would unplugging an adapted F XT cause any problems?
Why not start a new topic? Kashtan’s confused enough already!

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AJM

23 Aug 2019, 10:42

consensual-penis wrote:
23 Aug 2019, 06:16
off topic, but would unplugging an adapted F XT cause any problems?
I don't think so. The only important thing is, when you plug it in again, to first connect the converter to the keyboard and then the converter to the pc.

Kashtan

23 Aug 2019, 13:19

Dear colleagues.
hid_listen don`t finding anything.
Spoiler:
Снимок.PNG
Снимок.PNG (44.61 KiB) Viewed 993 times
What`s i have done wrong? Do I need to put some more software for Soarer`s?

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Muirium
µ

23 Aug 2019, 13:40

Looks like a fried Teensy.

Your Soarer’s converter was working before. Now it’s not even responding to hid _listen. Bad sign!

Kashtan

23 Aug 2019, 23:11

Today i try connect keyboard to two various rig, both on Windows 10.
Keyboard don`t work.
When connect, after 3-5 minuts set drivers for Soarers, and in device manager in the section "keyboard" appears immediately 2 Hid device.
When take out - they immediately disappear, both.
When take out keyboard from USB-converter, they not disappear, but i hear sound take device on system speaker.
What now?
Spoiler:
Before I arrived, I was unlucky with this keyboard; for 10 days it was lying in the local warehouse of the delivery service, I had to call and be indignant every day.
Then, when I arrived, it turned out that the space bar had flown off the stabilizers, and I had to disassemble the keyboard completely to put it in its place. When I put everything back, it turned out that I broke three switches, they do not work. 4 times disassembled and assembled.
I lost 2.5 days to work half a day, and she just stopped showing signs of life.
This is my first experience buying an expensive keyboard, and I'm sure the last one. I am not sorry for $ 196, although this is an amount that can be invested with a great mind, how many nerves and lost expectations. I read a lot that how old the IBM keyboards are reliable and robust, and repairable.
Thanks to all, who try to help me.
Last edited by Kashtan on 24 Aug 2019, 02:42, edited 1 time in total.

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Muirium
µ

24 Aug 2019, 00:08

Try hid_listen on those computers. Does it ever see anything?

Soarer's Converter runs on a small piece of hardware: a Teensy or clone. (The Atmel processor is very small and some modders (like Orihalcon) can even fit the converter inside a cable.) This converter hardware could be broken.

The XT is a tough keyboard. Shame it got damaged. Takes a lot to do that!

Kashtan

24 Aug 2019, 02:41

No. Both don`t see.

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Muirium
µ

24 Aug 2019, 09:25

The converter is dead. Or just the USB cable.

Kashtan

24 Aug 2019, 12:19

Muirium wrote:
24 Aug 2019, 09:25
The converter is dead. Or just the USB cable.
How can I check what doesn't work?
I have no other converter, no other keyboard. In our country, in my opinion, there are no such things.
And I have already made positive reviews for both sellers on ebay.

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Muirium
µ

24 Aug 2019, 12:27

You checked: the converter is not responding to your computer. The keyboard can’t do anything about that.

Think of it as a chain:
Computer > USB cable > converter > XT cable > keyboard.

Fkazim

24 Aug 2019, 12:31

Have you checked the screw that goes through the PCB is nice and tight to the back plate. As this is a capacitive board this is a very important thing to check. Also check the continuity of all the DIN cables wires with my first Model F XT keyboard the cable was broken at the strain relief part of the cable that leaves the case so this would also be good thing to check. I really doubt that your Model F is actually properly broken these boards are tanks.

Hope you can get your XT working again good luck.

Kashtan

24 Aug 2019, 14:18

5 times I disassembled and assembled the keyboard.
The ground wire was hooked to the right bolt holding the rear cover.
Nothing.
Give it in for repair?
I still hope that I made some elementary mistake, software or mechanical. Well, or this will be the second topic about a disabled IBM keyboard that I found on net.
Thanks to everyone that you are with me.

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Muirium
µ

24 Aug 2019, 16:39

The converter is not responding to hid_listen therefore the converter is broken.

What kind of converter are you using? I don’t mean Soarer’s software running on it. But what hardware, and where physically.

Kashtan

24 Aug 2019, 16:47

Muirium wrote:
24 Aug 2019, 16:39
The converter is not responding to hid_listen therefore the converter is broken.

What kind of converter are you using? I don’t mean Soarer’s software running on it. But what hardware, and where physically.
From ebay seller aka tinkerboy.xyz

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Muirium
µ

24 Aug 2019, 16:59

Return it to him. It’s broken. And there’s no fixing it, in such a sealed unit.

The upside is the keyboard is probably working just fine.

Kashtan

24 Aug 2019, 17:46

Ok, i sent a return request.

Kashtan

18 Nov 2019, 22:08

Hello to all.
Today i receive converter from another seller from ebay, from states.
Drivers installeds, but keyboard not working. Any buttons.
Also two thoughts:
when puch buttons, strange ringing, as if something is not attached inside, (as empty bucket) on any video did I no hear a ringing with this keyboard. This normal?
The second - I remembered that during disassembly, three switches were broken, could they close the board and it blocked?
Reason again make out XT, and get out this three switches. Without them, and try again to launch. Or purchase 3 switches capacitive buckling springs from ebay?
So, Is there any reason to carry it tomorrow for repairs? Tomorrow I’m going to bring my new CPU to the binning procedure, at the same time I can bring the master and keyboard ...
I would be grateful for any thoughts!

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