Alps Lubricant FOUND!

[mindgame]

Interesting reading these results. May be the case that existing wear in to the plastic is causing permanent effects that no lube can reverse? I am still waiting to try to get in what I can if I can get it in the US.

Def yes for bad condition. Sometimes u could even see visual plastic degradation where sliders contact rails, no lube could fix such bad scratchy alps to good condition.

[hellothere]

Dead keys have been replaced on AEKb. Officially being tested, now, but as my "backup" that I only use a couple hours a day. My main keyboard is still the Alps salmon that I've used the Nyogel on. While I do like the orange Alps keyboards keyboards I've done NOTHING to a bit more, I'm trying to decide if I like the salmon more or less than my exquisite pine white Alps.

I'm again starting from not really impressed on the AEKb. We'll see what happens after a week.

[NeK]

Well, I on the other hand will just verify that Nyogel 760G does nothing for Blue ALPS (and all SKCM that are prelubed). In fact it does the exact opposite, it exacerbates the friction making them even more scratchy. Back to the drawing board.

[mcmaxmcmc]

Well, I on the other hand will just verify that Nyogel 760G does nothing for Blue ALPS (and all SKCM that are prelubed). In fact it does the exact opposite, it exacerbates the friction making them even more scratchy. Back to the drawing board.

Yikes... well then.

RIP to those that tried

[joebeazelman]

Well, I on the other hand will just verify that Nyogel 760G does nothing for Blue ALPS (and all SKCM that are prelubed). In fact it does the exact opposite, it exacerbates the friction making them even more scratchy. Back to the drawing board.

I'm really not surprised by your findings. First, you slathered it on like there was no tomorrow. Nyogel is a very high quality grease with dampening properties. It is designed to be sticky so it can adhere to surfaces for long term lubrication. A little goes a long way, but went way overboard. When you realized the keys were binding, you went ahead and slathered on more. You have no clue on what you're doing. Please stop!

Second, it is impossible for any lubricant to impart scratchiness. In one of your photos, I see what appears to be polishing compound on one of your Alps stems and pieces of worn sandpaper strewn about. Hello? No wonder your switches feel scratchy! You've permanently impregnated the plastic with an abrasive! What you're actually sensing are abrasive particulates rubbing against plastic. The human finger is highly sensitive to fine particles down to well under 1 thousandth of an inch. Unfortunately, you've already murdered those switches beyond resuscitation. The abrasive will eventually wear away the plastic causing the switch to lose its tolerances. Game over. Hang it up.

Please stop your disastrous and unsupervised experiments. You're just making a big mess and blaming a product for your own ineptitude.

[joebeazelman]

Well, I on the other hand will just verify that Nyogel 760G does nothing for Blue ALPS (and all SKCM that are prelubed). In fact it does the exact opposite, it exacerbates the friction making them even more scratchy. Back to the drawing board.

Yikes... well then.

RIP to those that tried

It's a bit premature to declare it a failure based on one person's experienced. The jury is still out on this one. So far there's a lot of folks who are having incredibly positive results with it on the discord server with the general consensus that it is superior to every lubricant they've tried.

[NeK]

Well, I on the other hand will just verify that Nyogel 760G does nothing for Blue ALPS (and all SKCM that are prelubed). In fact it does the exact opposite, it exacerbates the friction making them even more scratchy. Back to the drawing board.

I'm really not surprised by your findings. First, you slathered it on like there was no tomorrow. Nyogel is a very high quality grease with dampening properties. It is designed to be sticky so it can adhere to surfaces for long term lubrication. A little goes a long way, but went way overboard. When you realized the keys were binding, you went ahead and slathered on more. You have no clue on what you're doing. Please stop!

Second, it is impossible for any lubricant to impart scratchiness. In one of your photos, I see what appears to be polishing compound on one of your Alps stems and pieces of worn sandpaper strewn about. Hello? No wonder your switches feel scratchy! You've permanently impregnated the plastic with an abrasive! What you're actually sensing are abrasive particulates rubbing against plastic. The human finger is highly sensitive to fine particles down to well under 1 thousandth of an inch. Unfortunately, you've already murdered those switches beyond resuscitation. The abrasive will eventually wear away the plastic causing the switch to lose its tolerances. Game over. Hang it up.

Please stop your disastrous and unsupervised experiments. You're just making a big mess and blaming a product for your own ineptitude.

Wow, take it easy dude.

First of all, you are making assumptions that are false, you are not checking them and then you just go ahead and without a shred of a doubt, drawing conclusions on them. That's a bad way to do it, to put it mildly.

Secondly, the abrasive compound that you saw, (used on cotton felt tips with a dremel) and the sandpaper was used on parts of other switches for various experiments over the course of many months. However, the switches that I actually used Nyogel 760g on, were "virgin" ones. Switches that were never-opened before and were not touched at all afterwards. They were just sitting in a drawer with the lube applied for weeks. I did this with several "virgin" switches, to make sure that I get consistent results. And I did only used just a hint of a pinch on those (on the stem's rails), after headphone_jack and kshopper2084 pointed out that I used way too much.

I don't know why you are attacking me, but I am thoroughly documenting and photographing each thing I do, so someone that does have a clue (unlike me) comes out and point out any mistakes or wrong in my ways, so we can all benefit from this. You, suddenly, just popped out of nowhere, with a bad attitude I should add, accusing me of "disastrous and unsupervised" experiments, that are a mess. Oh, Really? So, why didn't you say anything about then all of these months? Are you perhaps spending your time on discord having a laugh, while people are doing stuff and providing data (info, photos etc) on the thread, by actually posting and documenting what they do? Is this what "supervised" and proper experiment, means to you? Let me tell you, you are not helping, at all.

I have posted my data, right here in this thread, for the exact purpose to be readily available for anyone to review them and comment and help as I go on. Apparently you didn't give a shit, but OK whatever, I'm fine with that. Well I can't really judge how good my data are, but please let me know where is your data that backs up what you say, in order to review them and to compare with?

Oh, and before you use it again: no, the claim that "people on discord say it works magic" is not considered as "data", not even close, in fact it is the exact opposite of it, it is hearsay. And hearsay makes things worse, way worse it is as un"scientific" as you can get.

[NeK]

BTW Now that I know that we are being talked about on "discord", I just wanted to point out for the record, that the switches that I use for experimenting with, are coming from dead boards or in the case of my orange skcm ones, I have directly purchased them as parts. I don't and I haven't ruin any good keyboard that I own.

And again, for the record, I would be glad, very much so, to be totally wrong! My goal is not to be right, my goal is to find a way that we can restore bad conditioned switches as much as possible. I'm actually doing this knowing and expecting that I will make mistakes, I'm doing this knowing that I will probably be wrong, many times, but I do also know that this will also produce data, real data from which to learn from and find better approaches. In fact I would love to be wrong in this case and Nyogel would actually transform my switches I have here laying around, to a new-like smoothness. So yeah, I don't care if you prove me wrong, I would actually be happy if you can do it.

[kelvinhall05]

Well, I on the other hand will just verify that Nyogel 760G does nothing for Blue ALPS (and all SKCM that are prelubed). In fact it does the exact opposite, it exacerbates the friction making them even more scratchy. Back to the drawing board.

I'm really not surprised by your findings. First, you slathered it on like there was no tomorrow. Nyogel is a very high quality grease with dampening properties. It is designed to be sticky so it can adhere to surfaces for long term lubrication. A little goes a long way, but went way overboard. When you realized the keys were binding, you went ahead and slathered on more. You have no clue on what you're doing. Please stop!

Second, it is impossible for any lubricant to impart scratchiness. In one of your photos, I see what appears to be polishing compound on one of your Alps stems and pieces of worn sandpaper strewn about. Hello? No wonder your switches feel scratchy! You've permanently impregnated the plastic with an abrasive! What you're actually sensing are abrasive particulates rubbing against plastic. The human finger is highly sensitive to fine particles down to well under 1 thousandth of an inch. Unfortunately, you've already murdered those switches beyond resuscitation. The abrasive will eventually wear away the plastic causing the switch to lose its tolerances. Game over. Hang it up.

Please stop your disastrous and unsupervised experiments. You're just making a big mess and blaming a product for your own ineptitude.

Wow, take it easy dude.

First of all, you are making assumptions that are false, you are not checking them and then you just go ahead and without a shred of a doubt, drawing conclusions on them. That's a bad way to do it, to put it mildly.

Secondly, the abrasive compound that you saw, (used on cotton felt tips with a dremel) and the sandpaper was used on parts of other switches for various experiments over the course of many months. However, the switches that I actually used Nyogel 760g on, were "virgin" ones. Switches that were never-opened before and were not touched at all afterwards. They were just sitting in a drawer with the lube applied for weeks. I did this with several "virgin" switches, to make sure that I get consistent results. And I did only used just a hint of a pinch on those (on the stem's rails), after headphone_jack and kshopper2084 pointed out that I used way too much.

I don't know why you are attacking me, but I am thoroughly documenting and photographing each thing I do, so someone that does have a clue (unlike me) comes out and point out any mistakes or wrong in my ways, so we can all benefit from this. You, suddenly, just popped out of nowhere, with a bad attitude I should add, accusing me of "disastrous and unsupervised" experiments, that are a mess. Oh, Really? So, why didn't you say anything about then all of these months? Are you perhaps spending your time on discord having a laugh, while people are doing stuff and providing data (info, photos etc) on the thread, by actually posting and documenting what they do? Is this what "supervised" and proper experiment, means to you? Let me tell you, you are not helping, at all.

I have posted my data, right here in this thread, for the exact purpose to be readily available for anyone to review them and comment and help as I go on. Apparently you didn't give a shit, but OK whatever, I'm fine with that. Well I can't really judge how good my data are, but please let me know where is your data that backs up what you say, in order to review them and to compare with?

Oh, and before you use it again: no, the claim that "people on discord say it works magic" is not considered as "data", not even close, in fact it is the exact opposite of it, it is hearsay. And hearsay makes things worse, way worse it is as un"scientific" as you can get.

idk man I had pretty good luck using it on some green Alps that came from this board:

Spoiler:

yummy.jpg (372.59 KiB) Viewed 6336 times

You did put way too much on your first ones lol. I'm guessing you then put too little on your second batch or used it on dirty switches because the ones I posted above were absolutely terrible when I got the board but are nice and smooth now.

[NeK]

idk man I had pretty good luck using it on some green Alps that came from this board:

Spoiler:

yummy.jpg

You did put way too much on your first ones lol. I'm guessing you then put too little on your second batch or used it on dirty switches because the ones I posted above were absolutely terrible when I got the board but are nice and smooth now.

That's interesting and great. I assume green ALPS are 1st gen (material of the stem is the same as Blue/Orange ones, and not the newer smoother material used for pine White ones) and also they were factory-lubed, correct? How did you clean them, and how did you apply the lube? Can you give some pointers? Do you have any new-like ones to compare them to? How smooth are the presses on the corners of the keys?

[kelvinhall05]

idk man I had pretty good luck using it on some green Alps that came from this board:

Spoiler:

yummy.jpg

You did put way too much on your first ones lol. I'm guessing you then put too little on your second batch or used it on dirty switches because the ones I posted above were absolutely terrible when I got the board but are nice and smooth now.

That's interesting and great. I assume green ALPS are 1st gen (material of the stem is the same as Blue/Orange ones, and not the newer smoother material used for pine White ones) and also they were factory-lubed, correct? How did you clean them, and how did you apply the lube? Can you give some pointers? Do you have any new-like ones to compare them to? How smooth are the presses on the corners of the keys?

I ran them through an ultrasonic several times, then lubed sliders and housings (I probably should've tested different methods on different keys but oh well). They are very smooth although I probably could've used a bit less lube or just lubed the housing. I have some extremely good condition green Alps in a Sharp PA1000H and they feel very similar and I'd attribute the difference in feel to my shit lubing skills.

Some of the keys bind a bit when I press the corners of the keycaps but for the most part it's fine and I can't get them to bind when typing normally. Again, I think this can be attributed to my lubing technique.

[NeK]

idk man I had pretty good luck using it on some green Alps that came from this board:

Spoiler:

yummy.jpg

You did put way too much on your first ones lol. I'm guessing you then put too little on your second batch or used it on dirty switches because the ones I posted above were absolutely terrible when I got the board but are nice and smooth now.

That's interesting and great. I assume green ALPS are 1st gen (material of the stem is the same as Blue/Orange ones, and not the newer smoother material used for pine White ones) and also they were factory-lubed, correct? How did you clean them, and how did you apply the lube? Can you give some pointers? Do you have any new-like ones to compare them to? How smooth are the presses on the corners of the keys?

I ran them through an ultrasonic several times, then lubed sliders and housings (I probably should've tested different methods on different keys but oh well). They are very smooth although I probably could've used a bit less lube or just lubed the housing. I have some extremely good condition green Alps in a Sharp PA1000H and they feel very similar and I'd attribute the difference in feel to my shit lubing skills.

Some of the keys bind a bit when I press the corners of the keycaps but for the most part it's fine and I can't get them to bind when typing normally. Again, I think this can be attributed to my lubing technique.

Thanks, really nice to hear. Though I remain abit not thrilled about the corner-binding issues (it is what I care most about). How long did you let them "cure" for? And have you let them totally untouched during that time, no presses or fiddling with them at all? And something last, how good or bad were they after you ultrasonic'ed them?

[kelvinhall05]

That's interesting and great. I assume green ALPS are 1st gen (material of the stem is the same as Blue/Orange ones, and not the newer smoother material used for pine White ones) and also they were factory-lubed, correct? How did you clean them, and how did you apply the lube? Can you give some pointers? Do you have any new-like ones to compare them to? How smooth are the presses on the corners of the keys?

I ran them through an ultrasonic several times, then lubed sliders and housings (I probably should've tested different methods on different keys but oh well). They are very smooth although I probably could've used a bit less lube or just lubed the housing. I have some extremely good condition green Alps in a Sharp PA1000H and they feel very similar and I'd attribute the difference in feel to my shit lubing skills.

Some of the keys bind a bit when I press the corners of the keycaps but for the most part it's fine and I can't get them to bind when typing normally. Again, I think this can be attributed to my lubing technique.

Thanks, really nice to hear. Though I remain abit not thrilled about the corner-binding issues (it is what I care most about). How long did you let them "cure" for? And have you let them totally untouched during that time, no presses or fiddling with them at all? And something last, how good or bad were they after you ultrasonic'ed them?

They have been sitting untouched for about three weeks now because most of the switchplates are dead (stupidly didn't check before reassembling). They are certainly better than when I first lubed them. I think with a better lube job they wouldn't bind.

They were pretty scratchy after cleaning. Think MX red. Little worse.

[headphone_jack]

Well, I on the other hand will just verify that Nyogel 760G does nothing for Blue ALPS (and all SKCM that are prelubed). In fact it does the exact opposite, it exacerbates the friction making them even more scratchy. Back to the drawing board.

I absolutely disagree with this statement. You used waaaaaay too much lube from your pictures. I tried out just a little on my salmon alps that were in a solid 6.5/10 condition before and they turned into an easy 8/10, with condition improving by the day.

[ntv242ver2]

Well, I on the other hand will just verify that Nyogel 760G does nothing for Blue ALPS (and all SKCM that are prelubed). In fact it does the exact opposite, it exacerbates the friction making them even more scratchy. Back to the drawing board.

Yikes... well then.

RIP to those that tried

It's a bit premature to declare it a failure based on one person's experienced. The jury is still out on this one. So far there's a lot of folks who are having incredibly positive results with it on the discord server with the general consensus that it is superior to every lubricant they've tried.

What discord? The discord server meaning DT?

[hellothere]

Well, I on the other hand will just verify that Nyogel 760G does nothing for Blue ALPS (and all SKCM that are prelubed). In fact it does the exact opposite, it exacerbates the friction making them even more scratchy. Back to the drawing board.

I absolutely disagree with this statement. You used waaaaaay too much lube from your pictures. I tried out just a little on my salmon alps that were in a solid 6.5/10 condition before and they turned into an easy 8/10, with condition improving by the day.

As I've mentioned, I've been extremely happy with this on my salmon Alps keyboard. You don't generally sit down at a keyboard and say, "Gee, I'd really like it if I have to do a whole bunch of typing today." As far as I can tell, all the binding is gone.

AEKb testing is going. I initially had a lot of keys that had the little "plip!" sound on the upstroke, but that seems to be improving. If it doesn't improve as much as AEKa at the end of the week of testing, I will again disassemble the keys, make sure the leaves aren't bent, ultrasonic the upper housing and slider, then re-lube with just Nyogel.

I am not sure that I'll do anything with my orange Alps. They're pretty nice, as-is, and I know that the #1 rule of Alps Club is that you don't try to fix it if it ain't broke.

[hellothere]

AEKb hasn't improved much more. I'm probably going to do as I mentioned above and disassemble the keys, make sure the leaves aren't bent, ultrasonic the upper housing and slider, then re-lube with just Nyogel. So, Nyogel + Super Lube = Eh.

[headphone_jack]

Not as large scale as some others have done, but I tried out the Nyogel on some salmon alps I'm using as filler switches. Before I lubed them, the switches were a solid 7/10 condition, pretty scratchy and bound badly. After lubing with a tiny amount of Nyogel and letting cure for a week, the switches turned into at least a 9/10, if not higher. They are now about as smooth as my orange alps, and even bind less. If anyone is interested than I can upload a quick sound demo.

[NeK]

Excuse me, but I cannot follow the ratings that you mentioned. I find them to be inconsistent$ confusing and not helpful.

A "badly scratching and binding" switch is a solid... 7 out of 10? And a 9+ rated one, still... binds? Then what would a 5 be? Don't take this the wrong way but, if a 7 is that bad then a 5 must be an unmovable piece of plastic that is cracked in half? And how would a 3 be even worse than that? would it be made up of dried snot, smeared with covid19 and have... thorns too? Or... what about a 1/10? Would it like bite your finger off, kill your pet and swear at you? I am just making a bit of a fun, obviously, but I do think that we need a more objective definition of what we mean by rating of switch condition. It is evident that it has ceased in having any meaning for a good while long.

[hellothere]

For me ...

10. No problems of any kind.
9. An occasional "upclick" from a single switch or two.
8. An occasional "upclick" from a couple switches.
7. Upclicks are now happening often.
6. Binding on a couple keys and any of the above.
5. Whole keyboard works OK, but binding on several keys and lots of upclicks.
4. Switches may still be fixable with some new parts.
3. Most switches work most of the time. They feel bad, man.
2. Switches don't work most of the time. Most switches need to be replaced.
1. Probably needs to be dismantled and each part individually cleaned or replaced.
0. Bites my finger off, tries to kill my pets and swears at me.

Or, looking at it a different way, I had problems with some unlubed switches. I treated them with Nyogel. There was significant improvement after the first week. There was still moderate improvement the week after that. There was still small improvement after that. That was about it.

On my salmon Alps keyboard, I have two or three keys that still give me upclick problems even after lubing. However, I no longer have any binding keys. I'm relatively happy with the outcome, but YMMV. I've got a white Alps board that I used Krytox or whatever on and it's now one of my best keyboards. I have a couple orange Alps keyboards that I've done absolutely nothing to and they're also two of my best keyboards.

My subjective chart for keyboards is not (necessarily) your subjective chart.

[Polecat]

My subjective chart is binary, as a keyboard is a binary device.

1. Ready to use, with no issues.
0. Nope or noper. Don't bother with cleaning, lubing, or other fiddling about. Yank out, toss in the trash, replace with #1.

Note that this is specific to Alps switches, since that's what I've been typing on for the past thirty years. I've had incredibly good luck buying used Alps keyboards, with one notable exception - a Costar CSK-2102 with (early) white Alps I got recently, from the ebay seller in Egypt. It's immaculately clean inside (as in never been used), with zero shine on the caps, but squeaks and binds so badly that it's completely unusable. No matter, it's nothing some switches from a parts donor won't cure, the value to me is the case and keycaps.I would like to know why these switches are so terrible though.

[NeK]

My subjective chart is binary, as a keyboard is a binary device.

1. Ready to use, with no issues.
0. Nope or noper. Don't bother with cleaning, lubing, or other fiddling about. Yank out, toss in the trash, replace with #1.

Note that this is specific to Alps switches, since that's what I've been typing on for the past thirty years. I've had incredibly good luck buying used Alps keyboards, with one notable exception - a Costar CSK-2102 with (early) white Alps I got recently, from the ebay seller in Egypt. It's immaculately clean inside (as in never been used), with zero shine on the caps, but squeaks and binds so badly that it's completely unusable. No matter, it's nothing some switches from a parts donor won't cure, the value to me is the case and keycaps.I would like to know why these switches are so terrible though.

Egypt has very high temperatures with a humid environment. That could easily explain the issue with the switches, as the plastic of the stems deteriorated under those conditions, even if stored in a box and never being used.

In any case, if you are going to throw it away, just send it over to me, I dont mind restoring it!

[Polecat]

Egypt has very high temperatures with a humid environment. That could easily explain the issue with the switches, as the plastic of the stems deteriorated under those conditions, even if stored in a box and never being used.

In any case, if you are going to throw it away, just send it over to me, I dont mind restoring it!

Funny, I buy an Alps keyboard and throw the switches away. Like Domino's Pizza, where you throw away the pizza and eat the box. But I just couldn't pass this one up.

I'll bet you're right. I knew Egypt was hot, but I didn't realize it was humid there. When I remove the switches I'll pop open a couple to see if there's any obvios damage before I toss them in the trash...uh...or send them to you.

[hellothere]

I knew Egypt was hot, but I didn't realize it was humid there.

[obvious_joke] So, were you in denial? [/obvious_joke]

[Polecat]

[obvious_joke] So, were you in denial? [/obvious_joke]

Well this keyboard, or at least its switches, was in denial. Myself I haven't been quite that far east; something about Albuquerque?

[kakan]

[obvious_joke] So, were you in denial? [/obvious_joke]

Well this keyboard, or at least its switches, was in denial. Myself I haven't been quite that far east; something about Albuquerque?

I heard they have splendid chicken.

[Polecat]

So you throw away the chicken and eat the...what...processing plant? I think I'll stick with the pizza, thank you. (edit: ...and my unlubed, unbefuddled Alps switches...)

[NeK]

I'll bet you're right. I knew Egypt was hot, but I didn't realize it was humid there. When I remove the switches I'll pop open a couple to see if there's any obvios damage before I toss them in the trash...uh...or send them to you.

Wow those symbols on some caps are cool, please throw away (= send them to me) the J and the R with the happy face!!!

[Hanslau]

So is nyogel the solution? Or kryotex good too?

Or just stick with good old dry ptfe lube?

[Lynx_Carpathica]

Ok so I read through most of the thread, and my brain started to hurt. Rather badly. So someone, please sum it up for me please. Can I restore my SKCM Whites (linearmodded, to see how bad they are, 7-9 of 10, they bind very very litle) with an ultasonic cleaner, and some...magic lubricant we still havent quite found?