Could anyone tell me a bit more about these two numpads?
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- Main keyboard: Ducky one 2 TKL rgb
- Main mouse: Steelseries rival 310
I saw these: https://imgur.com/a/tTZ2Ajm on an auction, and I'm wondering if anyone could bring some info about their usecase, switches etc. Any help is appreciated!
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- 412837284_f571a51a-58e6-45a5-b393-b1609c77f993.jpg (467.46 KiB) Viewed 3694 times
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- Location: Canada
- Main keyboard: Focus FK-9000, heavily modded
- Main mouse: MX Master 3
Not sure what they're from but it's Fujitsu Leafsprings.
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- Location: Canada
- Main keyboard: Focus FK-9000, heavily modded
- Main mouse: MX Master 3
They aren't. The weighting sucks ass and they aren't as exceptionally smooth as Chyros (and subsequently the entire vint keeb community) jerks them off to be. I would pick linear Alps or basically any modern linear over these in a heartbeat, and I haven't even tried other vint linears like Microswitch.
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- Location: London
- Main keyboard: Wy-60
- Favorite switch: Vint Black baby FIGHT ME!
Shame they are missing the case, they look really cool
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- Main keyboard: Ducky one 2 TKL rgb
- Main mouse: Steelseries rival 310
I have a feeling that they were used in some larger installation at some point. If I'm really lucky they might even be NOS replacement modules or something like that.
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- Location: Brisbane, Australia
It's almost as if keyfeel is subjective and dependant on condition or something. The clicky versions are one of my favorite switches, and the weighting is one of the best things about them. I think the weighting makes these feel smoother than they are, but all of the boards I have had have been pretty good, with the cleanest being one of the smoother feeling switches I've tried (much, much better than the dirty Microswitch hall effects that I have). One of them had a lot of binding on off centre key presses though, which was strange as it wasn't scratchy at all on straight vertical presses. I fixed this with a bit of lube and it's lovely to type on now. I don't like the linear version nearly as much, and I can't put my finger on why, but (Warning! - sweeping generalisation incoming) they're better than SKCC alps.kelvinhall05 wrote: ↑12 May 2021, 00:16They aren't. The weighting sucks ass and they aren't as exceptionally smooth as Chyros (and subsequently the entire vint keeb community) jerks them off to be. I would pick linear Alps or basically any modern linear over these in a heartbeat, and I haven't even tried other vint linears like Microswitch.
- Bjerrk
- Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
- Main keyboard: Cherry G80-1800 & Models F & M
- Main mouse: Mouse Keys, Trackpoint, Trackball
- Favorite switch: IBM Buckling Springs+Beamspring, Alps Plate Spring
Dude, I think you may be on to something!4_404 wrote: ↑12 May 2021, 08:10It's almost as if keyfeel is subjective and dependant on condition or something.kelvinhall05 wrote: ↑12 May 2021, 00:16They aren't. The weighting sucks ass and they aren't as exceptionally smooth as Chyros (and subsequently the entire vint keeb community) jerks them off to be.
But nah, on second thought, let's just blame Chyros, and then go on to insult the vintage keyboard community at large. It's the cool thing to do.
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- Location: Canada
- Main keyboard: Focus FK-9000, heavily modded
- Main mouse: MX Master 3
That's a lot of words for "the linear sucks, I agree with you" lol4_404 wrote: ↑12 May 2021, 08:10It's almost as if keyfeel is subjective and dependant on condition or something. The clicky versions are one of my favorite switches, and the weighting is one of the best things about them. I think the weighting makes these feel smoother than they are, but all of the boards I have had have been pretty good, with the cleanest being one of the smoother feeling switches I've tried (much, much better than the dirty Microswitch hall effects that I have). One of them had a lot of binding on off centre key presses though, which was strange as it wasn't scratchy at all on straight vertical presses. I fixed this with a bit of lube and it's lovely to type on now. I don't like the linear version nearly as much, and I can't put my finger on why, but (Warning! - sweeping generalisation incoming) they're better than SKCC alps.kelvinhall05 wrote: ↑12 May 2021, 00:16They aren't. The weighting sucks ass and they aren't as exceptionally smooth as Chyros (and subsequently the entire vint keeb community) jerks them off to be. I would pick linear Alps or basically any modern linear over these in a heartbeat, and I haven't even tried other vint linears like Microswitch.
Have not tried SKCC yet so can't comment on that.
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- Location: Canada
- Main keyboard: Focus FK-9000, heavily modded
- Main mouse: MX Master 3
If you took my comment as an insult then that's on you. I find that mindlessly following the popular opinion is a huge problem in the keyboard community and it's a really stupid thing to do. All but a couple people I've talked to who have nice, clean FLS boards dislike them for the same reasons I do: weird weighting/force curve and not as exceptionally smooth as everyone says they are. They aren't scratchy, but my NOS SKCL Greens were just as smooth. Hell, the Matias I bought recently were this smooth. And I have a NOS FLS board to compare them to!Bjerrk wrote: ↑12 May 2021, 08:39Dude, I think you may be on to something!4_404 wrote: ↑12 May 2021, 08:10It's almost as if keyfeel is subjective and dependant on condition or something.kelvinhall05 wrote: ↑12 May 2021, 00:16
They aren't. The weighting sucks ass and they aren't as exceptionally smooth as Chyros (and subsequently the entire vint keeb community) jerks them off to be.
But nah, on second thought, let's just blame Chyros, and then go on to insult the vintage keyboard community at large. It's the cool thing to do.
Also, you're seriously trying to claim that liking a smoother switch is "subjective"? I really don't think anyone has a preference for scratchier switches...
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- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
- DT Pro Member: 0011
There were several generations of Fujitsu leaf springs. I think I've only tried a type that bound badly on off-centre key presses but I've been told that there are other variants that are smoother.
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- Location: Brisbane, Australia
In my opinion, the linears do not suck. I like the clicky ones a lot more, but I like the linear FLS is still a good switch, and I prefer it to most of the MX style linear switches I've tried, including 'vint blacks' so many rave about. I will agree that I prefer SKCL green, and I haven't even tried NOS greens, but that doesn't mean they're bad.kelvinhall05 wrote: ↑12 May 2021, 13:27That's a lot of words for "the linear sucks, I agree with you" lol4_404 wrote: ↑12 May 2021, 08:10
It's almost as if keyfeel is subjective and dependant on condition or something. The clicky versions are one of my favorite switches, and the weighting is one of the best things about them. I think the weighting makes these feel smoother than they are, but all of the boards I have had have been pretty good, with the cleanest being one of the smoother feeling switches I've tried (much, much better than the dirty Microswitch hall effects that I have). One of them had a lot of binding on off centre key presses though, which was strange as it wasn't scratchy at all on straight vertical presses. I fixed this with a bit of lube and it's lovely to type on now. I don't like the linear version nearly as much, and I can't put my finger on why, but (Warning! - sweeping generalisation incoming) they're better than SKCC alps.
Have not tried SKCC yet so can't comment on that.
When I said subjective, I was referring to this, and the overall opinion of the switch. I think the linear is an above average switch, and the clicky is exceptional, and I really like the weighting of both.You don't like them, but I do - subjective.
You seem to have an issue with the gross exaggeration, hyperbole, objectivity and superlatives that are thrown around so often in this subjective hobby, and the people that take them as gospel. Frankly, so do I. I hate people asking 'is this a good keyboard?', and I hate even more when people answer yes/no. All this stuff is just drama, and inevitably results in more drama when people disagree with it.kelvinhall05 wrote: ↑12 May 2021, 13:34I find that mindlessly following the popular opinion is a huge problem in the keyboard community and it's a really stupid thing to do.
'Blue alps sound the best?' I prefer clicky space invaders. 'Microswitch hall effect switches are super smooth.' Mine aren't. 'Italic Apple legends look terrible.' Do they? 'Fujitsu leaf spring weighting sucks ass!' Damn, someone should have told me before I went out and started liking it. I love the look of the space cadet, but I think some stupid Philips keyboard looks even better. There's even old Geekhack threads saying blue alps are awful. Are they great switches (when clean)? Yes. Do they deserve the hype and price people pay? I certainly don't think so.
The most disappointment time I've ever had trying keyboards was with 'terrible' switches and finding they were nowhere near as bad as I was lead to believe. I was afraid of trying Cherry MY for fear my hands would fall off, but alas, they're just another boring linear (like many 80s linear switches). Maybe I have terrible tastes or am just a fool, but I still have my hands...
No one else can tell you if you are going to like a keyboard - if it is interesting and you can afford it and have space for it, buy it and find out.
Everyone wants a different look, feel and sound from their keyboards, and wants to use them in a different way. Some people don't even want to use their keyboard, they're just happy to have a pretty thing sitting on a shelf. Some people must have PBT keycaps, because pad printing would wear off, even though they only type on the keyboard twice a year.
By all means check out 'reviews' first, but look to them for semi-objective stuff like build quality and switch weighting, not what the reviewer's favorite switch is. Don't drop a ton of money based solely on someone else's opinion, and don't pass on an interesting keyboard just because someone online said it's bad. For this reason, I find the informative write ups on DT to be vastly superior to any 'review', especially in video format, which is ultimately more entertainment than sharing of facts. Of course I'm happy that 'reviews' exist, as they extend all this info to a lot of new audiences, but give me a good wiki entry or photo rich DT post over a YouTube video any day of the week. Really, it just comes down to how people take in information though, and nobody can or should tell others how to do that, nor throw around opinions like they're facts.
Apologies for the stupid off topic essay-rant, and for furthering the drama, but all these arguments over opinions and what other people like are pretty counter intuitive to the Deskthority mission of collecting and spreading information. I want to see photos and explanation of new discoveries, pretty keyboards and restorations, not over the top exaggerations like 'buckling springs are the greatest switches in the world' or 'FLS sucks ass'.
- Bjerrk
- Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
- Main keyboard: Cherry G80-1800 & Models F & M
- Main mouse: Mouse Keys, Trackpoint, Trackball
- Favorite switch: IBM Buckling Springs+Beamspring, Alps Plate Spring
Of course not. But just as it is silly to mindlessly follow the popular opinion, it is equally silly to say "You're all just jerkwads, 'cos I say these switches are bad". There's not much statistical power in a N=1 sample
Furthermore, it just contributes to the "hyperbole", as 4_404 so nicely put it.
That elaboration improves things a bitAll but a couple people I've talked to who have nice, clean FLS boards dislike them for the same reasons I do: weird weighting/force curve and not as exceptionally smooth as everyone says they are.
I don't think I ever said that? But I did (obviously) agree with the "dependent on conditioning" part.Also, you're seriously trying to claim that liking a smoother switch is "subjective"? I really don't think anyone has a preference for scratchier switches...
As for scratchiness, it's absolutely objective, and something it would be interesting to measure. In principle, it should be possible by quantifying the noise in the force curve (but it is of course important to be aware that it is separate from e.g. the stick/slip behaviour which can result from excessive static friction).
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- DT Pro Member: -
Bit off topic.
As kinda of weirdo who has like 20+ fujitsu leaf spring kbs I 99% sure they're linear 3rd fls but not clicky version(I have at least 6 different models with clicky fls iirc, so will be big surprised if im wrong for the linear guess).
I do enjoy them, but you could have your thoughts ofc.
As kinda of weirdo who has like 20+ fujitsu leaf spring kbs I 99% sure they're linear 3rd fls but not clicky version(I have at least 6 different models with clicky fls iirc, so will be big surprised if im wrong for the linear guess).
I do enjoy them, but you could have your thoughts ofc.
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- Main keyboard: Ducky one 2 TKL rgb
- Main mouse: Steelseries rival 310
My plan is to try and convert them/ one of them to usb and use it as a numpad with the extra row as macros. Any ideas how I would go about doing that? I'm guessing that I will have to buy a modern controller and solder it in with some wires, but you're the expertJohn Doe wrote: ↑12 May 2021, 16:52Bit off topic.
As kinda of weirdo who has like 20+ fujitsu leaf spring kbs I 99% sure they're linear 3rd fls but not clicky version(I have at least 6 different models with clicky fls iirc, so will be big surprised if im wrong for the linear guess).
I do enjoy them, but you could have your thoughts ofc.
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- Location: Canada
- Main keyboard: Focus FK-9000, heavily modded
- Main mouse: MX Master 3
It would be really simple with how small of a matrix it is. All the rows (or columns, forget which) will go through that resistor pack in the bottom right of the PCB (on the part above the keys, anyway), I'm guessing M1 or M2 is a demux but either way you would just solder your Pro Micro or Teensy to those pads, throw together a QMK config, easy.Eragaurd wrote: ↑12 May 2021, 18:37My plan is to try and convert them/ one of them to usb and use it as a numpad with the extra row as macros. Any ideas how I would go about doing that? I'm guessing that I will have to buy a modern controller and solder it in with some wires, but you're the expertJohn Doe wrote: ↑12 May 2021, 16:52Bit off topic.
As kinda of weirdo who has like 20+ fujitsu leaf spring kbs I 99% sure they're linear 3rd fls but not clicky version(I have at least 6 different models with clicky fls iirc, so will be big surprised if im wrong for the linear guess).
I do enjoy them, but you could have your thoughts ofc.
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- Location: San Francisco
- Main keyboard: Das Keyboard
- Main mouse: Logitech
- Favorite switch: MicroSwitch Hall Effect
- DT Pro Member: 0240
M1 is a BCD-to-decimal decoder and M2 is a mux. I don't see a microcontroller here, so I guess underneath the tan thingy is a connector with the 4 BCD lines and 3 select lines. Keep those and you'll only need 7 GPIOs instead of 11.
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- DT Pro Member: -
Will update this reply couple hours later, being outside at high speed train and suffering from bad 4G signal.
Finally touched desktop.
kelvin and MMcM are great guys, they have clued correct direction, and you could follow what they suggested to save the pad definitely.
I'd say a little bit more.
Spoiler:
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- Main keyboard: Ducky one 2 TKL rgb
- Main mouse: Steelseries rival 310
Here is another picture (that I probably should have posted earlier) that might help https://imgur.com/a/BmG0Hx3John Doe wrote: ↑13 May 2021, 02:03Will update this reply couple hours later, being outside at high speed train and suffering from bad 4G signal.
Finally touched desktop.
kelvin and MMcM are great guys, they have clued correct direction, and you could follow what they suggested to save the pad definitely.
I'd say a little bit more.Spoiler:
- Muirium
- µ
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
- Main keyboard: HHKB Type-S with Bluetooth by Hasu
- Main mouse: Apple Magic Mouse
- Favorite switch: Gotta Try 'Em All
- DT Pro Member: µ
Intriguing. You can actually program QMK to work with multiplexers? How much work is it? And does the web UI still work for tweaking layouts at the end?
I'm often fiddling with mine, when new layout/layer ideas come to me, sometimes years after the hardware side is finished.
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- DT Pro Member: -
Yeah, there's definitely no original controller but you could add one.Eragaurd wrote: ↑13 May 2021, 10:26Here is another picture (that I probably should have posted earlier) that might help https://imgur.com/a/BmG0Hx3
You could do that to manipulate multiplexer to select cols one by one in TMK, actually it's not about qmk or tmk but it's just related to C language so I think both okay for two projects.
Not too much, only to modify the read_cols function in the matrix.c file should be enough.
I wish but unfortunately no, as the web API just provide a common modifying method, like direct connecting rows/cols to teensy or whatever. This's reasonable cuz different kbds normally have different logic chips to drive rows and select cols.
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- Location: USA
- Main keyboard: Lately an Ortek 142 though I swap out boards
- Main mouse: logitech
- Favorite switch: buckling spring
- DT Pro Member: 0239
- Contact:
Bjerrk wrote: ↑12 May 2021, 08:39Dude, I think you may be on to something!4_404 wrote: ↑12 May 2021, 08:10It's almost as if keyfeel is subjective and dependant on condition or something.kelvinhall05 wrote: ↑12 May 2021, 00:16
They aren't. The weighting sucks ass and they aren't as exceptionally smooth as Chyros (and subsequently the entire vint keeb community) jerks them off to be.
But nah, on second thought, let's just blame Chyros, and then go on to insult the vintage keyboard community at large. It's the cool thing to do.
I blame Chyros!!!!
Well, I blame him for the hundred odd keyboards in my spare room....maybe I'll break out the Tandy 3000 this weekend when I rotate the Wooting 2 out.
BTW any one have a nonfunctional Tandy 3000? I have two of these boards, both in good shape except the case on one fell apart....
- Lalaland124
- Main keyboard: 3278
- Favorite switch: Beamspring
I recently picked up one but after cleaning it, it sounds like you would type on squeaky kids toys, so yeah pretty much nonfunctionalkeyboard Kultist wrote: ↑13 May 2021, 21:11BTW any one have a nonfunctional Tandy 3000? I have two of these boards, both in good shape except the case on one fell apart....