Niz vs Topre at 45g+

[JCMax]

How would you say Niz compares to the Topre at 45g - 55g?

I've heard that they both feel like light tactile or linear switches when at a lower weight like 35g, but feel way more tactile when it gets to 45g at least.

I have a 104 Niz Plum keyboard with 35g switches. I used the extra springs it came with to add 10g to bump some of the keys up to 45g, but I honestly do not feel much of a difference. It feels way more linear to me.

My HHKB are weighted to 45g switches and they feel like a world of difference as far as tactility and responsiveness go.

[Palatino]

Aha, I’ll take this one as I have a 35g Niz, 45g Niz, 45g Topre and used to have a 55g Topre.

I agree the 35g Niz switches are almost linear. If you press one slowly with a single finger you can feel a little bump, but at ordinary typing speeds it’s barely there. I like them though! You can type fast and it’s more comfortable and cushioned than a true linear.

The 45g Niz is different: it has more noticeable tactility. However, it’s still not strongly tactile, not as strong as 45g Topre, even in a new HHKB. My older HHKB with aged 45g domes is more tactile again, perhaps 50g in feel now, and the 55g Topre switches I tried were too much for me, though I know some people love them - I just prefer softer switches.

45g Niz is still closer to 35g Niz than 45g Topre in tactility level, I’d say. But in the end, they’re different switches, and I love both. If you don’t like how weak the 35g Niz are, it seems as though you already have the solution: your HHKB!

[Riverman]

You can get a 45g Niz dome sheet dirt cheap, at least in the US, if you want to swap out your 35g domes and see what it's like. I bought one recently from Flashquark for just over $10. I don't know if this is true of all Niz keyboards, but I've taken mine apart a few times, and each time I had to run the calibration software afterwards or else some keys wouldn't work. A 45g Niz is nicely tactile, but I agree with Palatino that it's not quite as tactile as a 45g Topre, which seems to be the gold standard for "normally" weighted tactile keyboards. Topre switches are also smoother than Niz, but if I had never tried a Topre keyboard, I probably would've thought my 45g Niz was the best keyboard I've ever used. It really is great.

[hellothere]

Aha, I’ll also take this one as I have an Abko K935Pv2 with 45g Niz switches, 45g Realforce PFU, and have a 55g Realforce.

I wouldn't do the 35g because that's too light for me. I also read somewhere that just swapping the springs isn't going to be that much help.

In order of which ones I like the most, it's 935 > RF 45g > RF 55g. The most tactile is the RF 55g, by a large margin. The Abko and RF 45g are tactile, but have a significantly different feel. I like the 935 more than the RF 45g, but it took me a couple months to get to that conclusion. You might do well with the RF PFU edition, because you can change the actuation point.

Mu has preached the gospel of the HHKB and I would love to try a 45g version and feel how it differs from the RF.

[wobbled]

What you really need to try is a dome swapped niz with 45g topre domes.
Then things get really interesting!

I should probably sell some of my dome sheets so people can try this mod.

[Go-Kart]

Mu has preached the gospel of the HHKB and I would love to try a 45g version and feel how it differs from the RF.

Having now tried Topre's 45 g in a range of boards, I have had to join Mu's chorus. HHKB maximalist right here.

[Muirium]

By definition, an HHKB maximalist maxes out at 60%. We’re an enlightened bunch, accordingly. Our jackboots are pliable and ever so gentle, and our thugs are quite nice too.

[JCMax]

Mu has preached the gospel of the HHKB and I would love to try a 45g version and feel how it differs from the RF.

Having now tried Topre's 45 g in a range of boards, I have had to join Mu's chorus. HHKB maximalist right here.

Yeah, he converted me too!

By definition, an HHKB maximalist maxes out at 60%. We’re an enlightened bunch, accordingly. Our jackboots are pliable and ever so gentle, and our thugs are quite nice too.

[Muirium]

I still think real Topre purists prefer Realforce. That’s what I always heard. I just don’t. The steel plate isn’t for me.

[JCMax]

I still think real Topre purists prefer Realforce. That’s what I always heard. I just don’t. The steel plate isn’t for me.

I don't know about Realforce. I've heard that it feels like some keys are linear and other keys feel tactile on it. I'm not sure how I would like that. But I may put it on my to-try list one day.

[Muirium]

You heard it wrong. That’s variable “ergo” weighting, not an intrinsic property of a Realforce. Plenty of them are uniform weight, like mine. I seldom hear people praise the variable weighted models.

[Riverman]

Yeah, there's a reason Topre came out with the higher-priced PFU Limited Edition models with uniform 45g weighting. That seems to be the holy grail of Topre weighting. Strangely enough that's also what their cheapest model, the Type Heaven, was, but that one feels slightly higher than 45g.

[JCMax]

You heard it wrong. That’s variable “ergo” weighting, not an intrinsic property of a Realforce. Plenty of them are uniform weight, like mine. I seldom hear people praise the variable weighted models.

Thanks for clearing that up! That bumps it up higher on the list.

Yeah, there's a reason Topre came out with the higher-priced PFU Limited Edition models with uniform 45g weighting. That seems to be the holy grail of Topre weighting. Strangely enough that's also what their cheapest model, the Type Heaven, was, but that one feels slightly higher than 45g.

Hmmmm...I was wondering what 45g+ would feel like and the Type Heaven was a board I considered for my first Topre. Would you say RF > Type Heaven?

[Muirium]

Would you say RF > Type Heaven?

I hope I’m just quoting you out of context here, because that’s pretty squirrely to me! 🐿

[JCMax]

Would you say RF > Type Heaven?

I hope I’m just quoting you out of context here, because that’s pretty squirrely to me! 🐿

Got it. RF it is!

[Muirium]

Good.

Incoming rant. Not aimed at anyone in particular. Just fancy a vent…

All this kvetching people insist on when it comes to Topre. But Nopre, man. It’s kinda sorta Topre. Gies peace! They’re a ripoff too. Have some self respect and be at one with the chiclet garbage everyone else uses around you if you’re going to be cheap. Man up! Real cheap == free!

A Realforce won’t break the bank. (If things really are that dire, do something about that instead of jerking around at DT! ) And if you don’t like Topre, sell it. They’re good that way.

What’s such a head scratcher to me is that people still whine about these low three figure Topre boards just as badly now as they did back when a good IBM cost half that price and every Alps you liked were practically going for free. Keyboard inflation is real. (Everyone knows I’ve thousands of percent returns on my best IBMs. Should have bloody “invested” in more of them should’nt I!) Yet Topre are no more costly now than before and it’s still all this! C’mon. These are the The Good Old Days when you could get a Topre for less than a new laptop. I know this feeling. I’ve been here before. Get on in before you regret it.

[JCMax]

Good.

Incoming rant. Not aimed at anyone in particular. Just fancy a vent…

All this kvetching people insist on when it comes to Topre. But Nopre, man. It’s kinda sorta Topre. Gies peace! They’re a ripoff too. Have some self respect and be at one with the chiclet garbage everyone else uses around you if you’re going to be cheap. Man up! Real cheap == free!

A Realforce won’t break the bank. (If things really are that dire, do something about that instead of jerking around at DT! ) And if you don’t like Topre, sell it. They’re good that way.

What’s such a head scratcher to me is that people still whine about these low three figure Topre boards just as badly now as they did back when a good IBM cost half that price and every Alps you liked were practically going for free. Keyboard inflation is real. (Everyone knows I’ve thousands of percent returns on my best IBMs. Should have bloody “invested” in more of them should’nt I!) Yet Topre are no more costly now than before and it’s still all this! C’mon. These are the The Good Old Days when you could get a Topre for less than a new laptop. I know this feeling. I’ve been here before. Get on in before you regret it.

After trying Topre and Nopre I must agree with you, sinsei. The Niz Plum I got was good but if I didn't know what the switch type was I could have easily mistaken it for another rubber dome I could get at Walmart. Albeit, a good rubber dome but still not as unique as Topre.

I know a lot of people throw the word "preference" around a lot. Sure, to a degree it's all apples and oranges, but if 99% of folks are saying they prefer the oranges chances are I probably would too. I am learning that as I have been sampling a little bit of both worlds.

I like good rubber domes and I still like my Niz. But now I know it won't be the same as Topre. Topre is on another level and like most enthusiasts it sounds like I will prefer it. It has such a unique feel and is so efficient (for my typing style) it is well worth the extra price IMHO. Count me among the new Topre disciple here!

[hellothere]

As I said, I just like the 935 more than my Topre 45. That's a preference thing. What isn't a preference thing is that the Topre has much higher build quality than the 935. I have no idea about the Niz-branded keyboards, although I like Niz caps more. Then again, the highest-quality Topre is supposed to be the Leopold. It's higher priced by about $20 to $40, at least.

I think Abko may have discontinued their line of keyboards with "capacitance" switches. There's a whole lot of nothing on Abko's website. Niz has a bunch available.

The next time I have funds to do so, I'll grab an HHKB and find out if I like it. It may be a long while. I got bills, man.

[JCMax]

Sad but true.

WHY can’t NICE things in HIGH DEMAND be plentiful and CHEAP?

I think everybody has to wrestle with that with this keyboard hobby.

[Muirium]

Everyone has to wrestle with that, full stop. You seen inflation lately?

[Riverman]

I have no idea about the Niz-branded keyboards, although I like Niz caps more.

Niz changed their keycaps recently, and their latest doubleshot PBT ones look horrible. The legends are uneven, a lot of them are up at the top of the keycap, and they use a hideous brown color on the black keyboards. It's a shame they look so bad, because they're great to type on.

[hellothere]

Everyone has to wrestle with that, full stop. You seen inflation lately?

I know that you types across the pond will point and laugh at this, but gas went up from approximately $3.60 a gallon to $4.75 a gallon, practically overnight. Milk went up from around $2.25 to $3.09 -- and the reason that especially bothers me is because there's a dairy farm all of 10 miles away from my house.

I haven't picked up everything on my shopping list in months, because things are just not there. A couple weeks back, they had no bananas. How does that happen? On average, my grocery store spending has gone up by $25 a week.

A large double Whopper meal without cheese at Burger King went up by a dollar. A large McDonalds chicken tendies nugget meal went up by 75 cents. Del Taco increased their large drink price by 25 cents. Dairy Queen's medium vanilla cone with cherry dip has gone up by 50 cents.

[kbdfr]

Fully off-topic comment, nothing to do with Niz, Topre or even keyboards at all

Spoiler:

[…] double Whopper meal without cheese at Burger King […]

Just wondering how you can call that a "meal"

[Muirium]

It's more than a day's worth of calories for an adult male, so whatever it is it ain't a "snack."

[kbdfr]

You can’t just stuff something between two pieces of bread and call it a meal, whatever its nutritional value.
A meal is not just what you eat, it’s also how you eat it.
Or would you call a parenteral infusion a "meal"?

[Muirium]

I didn’t say it’s a meal. I just said it’s not a snack, unless you fancy becoming a quite a Whopper for yourself.

[hellothere]

Well, I mean I get lettuce, onions, and ketchup on the burger, so you could say* that it's an extra beefy salad. Plus, if you get the "meal," you get a soda. If it's a large, that means 32oz of liquid. That's half of the recommended daily fluid intake, right? You could also say that you're eating international cuisine,* because fries!

* Not that you'd be right, but you could say it.

[Muirium]

Lettuce? You some woke vegan commienist who HATES MURICA!? Well you, sir, can take your Freedom Fries and GEEEEET OUT!

[JCMax]

Well, I mean I get lettuce, onions, and ketchup on the burger, so you could say* that it's an extra beefy salad. Plus, if you get the "meal," you get a soda. If it's a large, that means 32oz of liquid. That's half of the recommended daily fluid intake, right? You could also say that you're eating international cuisine,* because fries!

* Not that you'd be right, but you could say it.

Lettuce? You some woke vegan commienist who HATES MURICA!? Well you, sir, can take your Freedom Fries and GEEEEET OUT!

A cheeseburger does have one of each out of the food pyramid.

But while I'm here I forgot to ask...

What you really need to try is a dome swapped niz with 45g topre domes.
Then things get really interesting!

I should probably sell some of my dome sheets so people can try this mod.

Have you done this before? Was it...Epic?

[wobbled]

I have done it before, it did feel closer to actual topre but it could probably benefit from slider / housing swaps since the topre ones are of a higher quality.