Are Alps keycaps harder to take off than Cherry keycaps?

[apastuszak]

I'm playing with an AEK II now, and pulling the keycaps off is pretty hard. The spacebar is sticking and I want to pop it off and see what's going on, and I cannot get the thing off. I'm afraid to pull any harder.

Prior to this, I had a Matias Tactile Pro I bought used. I pulled the keycaps off to clean them, and I actually ripped some of the switches off the PCB.

Is this a common thing with ALPS keycaps? Are they harder to pull off switches than Cherry keycaps?

[hellothere]

I re-wrote my original reply.

You kind of imply that you're talking about brands. That might not be the way to go. MX is a mount. There are a bunch of different switches not named "Cherry" that use this mount. A random modern switch would be Gateron. A random vintage switch would be Futaba MA. There are many other switches out there that use Alps mounts, like the Omron B3G-S. Matias' switches just happen to have Alps mounts. Throw in there 3rd party key caps, too.

So, mostly going by the exact wording of your question, my experience has been that Matias caps are the most difficult to get off and Cherry caps are the easiest.

[Findecanor]

Better to disassemble the AEKII and take a look from the front to see how the space bar is attached.

[Meowmaritus]

Matias Tactile Pro is just built like shit.

Every original alps keyboard I've come across was strong enough to withstand pulling off the keycaps. On AEK2 you just have to pull the spacebar really hard until the stabilizers pop out of the keycap or the clips pop out of the chassis. It's all meant to come out and reseatable so don't worry.

All genuine alps switches I've seen are completely fine as long as you pull straight up. Some have brittle plastic issues with age that can make the sliders snap if pulled at an angle. Even if that were to happen it's not the end of the world if it's a used board since you can put another slider in (if it's NOS you broke the slider on you are going to Hell )

Some more info about AEK II spacebar: It has a single vertical peg in it, so don't pull it at an angle even after you pop it off the switch itself; you could snap that little peg's tiny cross mount.

[Muirium]

Matias still giving Alps an underserved bad name? Mr. Alps-san must be spinning in his grave.

Spoiler:

72859AA6-B56E-498C-A95B-DD10647478C3.jpeg (57.97 KiB) Viewed 3212 times

“This libellous disrespect for the once honourable アルプス name MUST cease before more damage is done.”

[apastuszak]

Better to disassemble the AEKII and take a look from the front to see how the space bar is attached.

I got it off. Took some work. Now I just have the long wait till the adapter gets here.

[doomsday_device]

always unclip wire before pulling the cap (atleast with long wires like on a spacebar)

[amigastar23]

in my experience Alps Keycaps are much harder to take off than Cherry Mx one.

[thefarside]

in my experience Alps Keycaps are much harder to take off than Cherry Mx one.

Definitely. It’s the worst part of alps switches, besides reassembly . I heard someone say that some double shot alps key caps will separate after so many pulls. I’m hoping thats not true…

[apastuszak]

This leads to another question...

Why are there no alps clones? There are tons of Cherry MX clones. But from what I have read, Alps switches seem to be superior to Cherry MX switches. I;m surprised no one has come up with alps clone switches with Cherry MX compatible stems.

I wonder if it would be possible to make an Alps clone switch that could be a drop-in replacement for a Cherry MX style switch in a hot-swap board.

[thefarside]

There’s at least two alps clones in current production: Matias and Tai Hao.

Matias isn’t bad and I’m interested in trying a project using the blue Tai Hao switches, but genuine alps in good condition are considered the best.

[SK-8K]

I wonder if it would be possible to make an Alps clone switch that could be a drop-in replacement for a Cherry MX style switch in a hot-swap board.

Zeal Clickiez or I-Rocks switches may be what you're looking for.

[kbdfr]

[…] from what I have read, Alps switches seem to be superior to Cherry MX switches. […]

I have read that Alps switches collect dust while Cherry MX switches definitely don’t.

[Bjerrk]

I have read that Alps switches collect dust while Cherry MX switches definitely don’t.

Knowing the collectors here, you can be assured that a lot of old Cherry switches are just collecting dust

[Muirium]

Alps has more variety than OG Cherry MX. Blue Alps for instance really are better than MX blue. Cherry’s strength is their reliability and that they’re still in production, and the clone market has surpassed them in interestingness the last few years. There’s a whole lot more there now than there ever used to be. Alps, not so much. The Alpine world was livelier long ago.

[apastuszak]

I wonder if it would be possible to make an Alps clone switch that could be a drop-in replacement for a Cherry MX style switch in a hot-swap board.

Zeal Clickiez or I-Rocks switches may be what you're looking for.

The Clickiez look interesting. But they're clicky. If I wanted something tactile that wasn't clicky, then I don't have an option other than to go with genuine Alps switches.

[photekq]

Blue Alps for instance really are better than MX blue.

This forum's been alive for over 10 years, but people still haven't absorbed the fact that these things are subjective. Both switches can be great (or bad) depending on who's using them

[thefarside]

I wonder if it would be possible to make an Alps clone switch that could be a drop-in replacement for a Cherry MX style switch in a hot-swap board.

Zeal Clickiez or I-Rocks switches may be what you're looking for.

The Clickiez look interesting. But they're clicky. If I wanted something tactile that wasn't clicky, then I don't have an option other than to go with genuine Alps switches.

I would also consider the Matias quiet click switches. They are very tactile and dampened with no click sound. The tactility is very sharp compared to orange alps and much cheaper.

[amigastar23]

Blue Alps for instance really are better than MX blue.

This forum's been alive for over 10 years, but people still haven't absorbed the fact that these things are subjective. Both switches can be great (or bad) depending on who's using them

Thats true, although i love my White Alps Keyboard i still like my MX Blue Keyboard.

[Meowmaritus]

One thing's for certain: mx blues are a lot more common and getting boring. Alps kinda revitalized my love for keyboards.

[Muirium]

I’d argue that inherently, as a design, clicky MX is inferior to clicky Alps for sound and feel. MX has a lot of other things going for it, but blue Alps are a joy.

You’re right that it’s complex and ultimately subjective though. But the going rate for blue Alps also says something.

[apastuszak]

Blue Alps for instance really are better than MX blue.

This forum's been alive for over 10 years, but people still haven't absorbed the fact that these things are subjective. Both switches can be great (or bad) depending on who's using them

Thats true, although i love my White Alps Keyboard i still like my MX Blue Keyboard.

The first mechanical keyboard I ever bought has MX Blue switches in it. It made me give up on mechanical keyboards for YEARS. Then I discovered the Model M...

[apastuszak]

Zeal Clickiez or I-Rocks switches may be what you're looking for.

The Clickiez look interesting. But they're clicky. If I wanted something tactile that wasn't clicky, then I don't have an option other than to go with genuine Alps switches.

I would also consider the Matias quiet click switches. They are very tactile and dampened with no click sound. The tactility is very sharp compared to orange alps and much cheaper.

I've been trying to find a full size Quiet Click keyboard. Matias discontinued theirs, and I can't find a used one in PC layout. I'd buy the Mac layout, but the Insert Key is replaced by the Help key, which can't be remapped.

But I also need hardware programmable macros, which Matias keyboards can't do.

[SK-8K]

I've been trying to find a full size Quiet Click keyboard. Matias discontinued theirs, and I can't find a used one in PC layout. I'd buy the Mac layout, but the Insert Key is replaced by the Help key, which can't be remapped.

But I also need hardware programmable macros, which Matias keyboards can't do.

I guess you can get a vintage Alps compatible board and swap in Quiet Clicks. For macros I'm not sure what to do, I don't think QMK can do on-the-fly macros that can be stored in the keyboard when the power is shut off.

[Hak Foo]

Adding VIA or VIAL atop QMK might do it.

I'm not sure it can do a FK-9000 style "push to record macro" on the board, but you can define them in an app.

[thefarside]

The Clickiez look interesting. But they're clicky. If I wanted something tactile that wasn't clicky, then I don't have an option other than to go with genuine Alps switches.

I would also consider the Matias quiet click switches. They are very tactile and dampened with no click sound. The tactility is very sharp compared to orange alps and much cheaper.

I've been trying to find a full size Quiet Click keyboard. Matias discontinued theirs, and I can't find a used one in PC layout. I'd buy the Mac layout, but the Insert Key is replaced by the Help key, which can't be remapped.

But I also need hardware programmable macros, which Matias keyboards can't do.

It would be a project but you could buy an older Focus keyboard and replace the switches with Matias Quiet Clicks and use a Soarers converter for macros. If the Focus keyboard has genuine alps you could either desolder them or use the dampened stems and tactile leaves from the Matias switches. If it uses clones you might be able to replace just the top housing with no desoldering needed. Below is an example of my Focus FK-2001 that I replaced the old alps clones with Matias Quiet Linears. I’ve since swapped the top housings out for the Quiet Clicks and am overall pretty happy with it.

IMG_4202.jpg (2.92 MiB) Viewed 2678 times

[apastuszak]

I've been trying to find a full size Quiet Click keyboard. Matias discontinued theirs, and I can't find a used one in PC layout. I'd buy the Mac layout, but the Insert Key is replaced by the Help key, which can't be remapped.

But I also need hardware programmable macros, which Matias keyboards can't do.

I guess you can get a vintage Alps compatible board and swap in Quiet Clicks. For macros I'm not sure what to do, I don't think QMK can do on-the-fly macros that can be stored in the keyboard when the power is shut off.

QMK stores macros on the keyboard. I've done it.

My preference is to use a Soarer's Converter. But that only works with PS/2 boards.

[apastuszak]

I would also consider the Matias quiet click switches. They are very tactile and dampened with no click sound. The tactility is very sharp compared to orange alps and much cheaper.

I've been trying to find a full size Quiet Click keyboard. Matias discontinued theirs, and I can't find a used one in PC layout. I'd buy the Mac layout, but the Insert Key is replaced by the Help key, which can't be remapped.

But I also need hardware programmable macros, which Matias keyboards can't do.

It would be a project but you could buy an older Focus keyboard and replace the switches with Matias Quiet Clicks and use a Soarers converter for macros. If the Focus keyboard has genuine alps you could either desolder them or use the dampened stems and tactile leaves from the Matias switches. If it uses clones you might be able to replace just the top housing with no desoldering needed. Below is an example of my Focus FK-2001 that I replaced the old alps clones with Matias Quiet Linears. I’ve since swapped the top housings out for the Quiet Clicks and am overall pretty happy with it.
IMG_4202.jpg

Life would be so much easier if work just let me run AutoHotkey. I used that software extensively. Then I got an email that they were removing it from the environment. The uninstall on my machine failed, so I continued to use it. A few weeks later I was in a meeting with HR for using "unauthorized software."

So, sadly I am limited to hardware solutions for my macros.

I still want to find a full size Quiet Click for PC and try a Hasu adapter with it. I have a full-size Tactile Pro for Mac, but it doesn't have an Insert Key, which I REALLY need.

[SK-8K]

I found this, a QMK compatible replacement PCB for the AEKII
https://github.com/kb-elmo/aek2_usb

[fohat]

My preference is to use a Soarer's Converter. But that only works with PS/2 boards.

I don't know where you heard that. My old project looks embarrassingly crude, but it works fine.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58 ... msg1348717