Model F XT keycaps have a 'layer' on them?

[SicloudEN]

Hi deskthority, I posted on the r/modelf subreddit yesterday about a "mint" condition Model F XT I recently acquired, and it was suggested to me that I ask in here instead. The keyboard looks stellar, except the keycaps are a bit weird.

The one on the left is from this “mint” condition, and the one the right is from another Model F XT (which was not otherwise in as nice condition). It seems like there is a layer of film? Add to this that there is a bit of yellow coloring around the letters of each letter on the keys…

Are these genuine Model F XT keycaps or is there something wrong here? It seems strange…

Any help would be appreciated!

[Muirium]

Looks like a sticker to me. The legend should absolutely not be bleeding out into the cap around it.

[SicloudEN]

Looks like a sticker to me. The legend should absolutely not be bleeding out into the cap around it.

Thank you for the response. The top "layer" does seem to be made of a plastic though?

[Muirium]

They’re not something I’ve seen before, and I’ve had a half dozen Model F keyboards, several of them XTs. That’s not IBM’s style on those keyboards. They came with tasty, single piece, high quality, heavily inked dyesubs as standard. XT key caps are some of the best, far better than what they put on Model M.

The one on the left looks like some kind of mod.

[SicloudEN]

They’re not something I’ve seen before, and I’ve had a half dozen Model F keyboards, several of them XTs. That’s not IBM’s style on those keyboards. They came with tasty, single piece, high quality, heavily inked dyesubs as standard. XT key caps are some of the best, far better than what they put on Model M.

The one on the left looks like some kind of mod.

Thank you again for responding. Well, damn. It sounds like mint condition was a statement with some qualifications then. I didn't expect the underside of the keycaps, but will do so when I get home.

[darkcruix]

They’re not something I’ve seen before, and I’ve had a half dozen Model F keyboards, several of them XTs. That’s not IBM’s style on those keyboards. They came with tasty, single piece, high quality, heavily inked dyesubs as standard. XT key caps are some of the best, far better than what they put on Model M.

The one on the left looks like some kind of mod.

Maybe it has one of those stickers on them. It is a plastic sticker at high quality and fits perfectly on the BS keycaps with the same color:

IMG_3128.jpeg (133.82 KiB) Viewed 2927 times

[Muirium]

Yes, like I said at the outset: looks like a sticker to me. Peel it off!

Quite why someone would slap stickers on premium dyesubs, especially for such ordinary keys, I do not know. Aren’t those for the desperate: like Æürøpéàñs?

[del20nd]

At first I thought maybe it was some weird artifact from the manufacturing process. Like maybe there was some batch of keys that had a weird lip on them. But the more I look, the more I'm inclined to agree that they're stickers and you should attempt to peel at least one off for science.

For what it's worth, the nicer keys from my F122 (admittedly different since it used two piece caps) have a more clearly defined line between the end of the pebbling texture and the start of the smooth texture than on your worse condition F. You'll only know if it's a weird manufacturing glitch if you attempt a peel though.

[SicloudEN]

Thank you all for your responses. I also just clicked on Chyrosran's review of the Model F XT from 2016, and despite the video being in 720p resolution it sure looks like there is a sticker on his as well.

Screenshot 2022-10-26 at 08.57.27.png (337.55 KiB) Viewed 2852 times

[SicloudEN]

Thank you all for your responses. I also just clicked on Chyrosran's review of the Model F XT from 2016, and despite the video being in 720p resolution it sure looks like there is a sticker on his as well.

Screenshot 2022-10-26 at 08.57.27.png

Which, to Muirium's credit, is indeed a keyboard made for the weird Øuropæäns!

[SicloudEN]

They’re not something I’ve seen before, and I’ve had a half dozen Model F keyboards, several of them XTs. That’s not IBM’s style on those keyboards. They came with tasty, single piece, high quality, heavily inked dyesubs as standard. XT key caps are some of the best, far better than what they put on Model M.

The one on the left looks like some kind of mod.

Maybe it has one of those stickers on them. It is a plastic sticker at high quality and fits perfectly on the BS keycaps with the same color:
IMG_3128.jpeg

Would you have any idea what the point of putting these stickers on are, if they are literally the same legends as the underlying keycaps?

[jsheradin]

I'm almost certain that those are not stickers. It would make sense from a tooling standpoint if the molds are multi-piece with the top part being separate to allow for media blasting (texture), different maintenance intervals, homing bumps, etc. I'd bet that the tooling fitment just had some variation over the years which causes a parting line on some caps but not others.

Here's a cap off a Wheelwriter with a similar line. I took a sliver out of it with a knife and it's indeed uniform plastic all the way through, no sticker.

IMG_20221026_092607.jpg (1.25 MiB) Viewed 2823 times

IMG_20221026_092715.jpg (1.35 MiB) Viewed 2823 times

[darkcruix]

They’re not something I’ve seen before, and I’ve had a half dozen Model F keyboards, several of them XTs. That’s not IBM’s style on those keyboards. They came with tasty, single piece, high quality, heavily inked dyesubs as standard. XT key caps are some of the best, far better than what they put on Model M.

The one on the left looks like some kind of mod.

Maybe it has one of those stickers on them. It is a plastic sticker at high quality and fits perfectly on the BS keycaps with the same color:
IMG_3128.jpeg

Would you have any idea what the point of putting these stickers on are, if they are literally the same legends as the underlying keycaps?

This was frequently used in setups, where you could only purchase e.g. German keyboards in quantity and you had the need for other languages (e.g. training). The easiest was to put those stickers on. It was around the Model M era, where we had either those stickers or those two part keycaps. As long as you had ANSI and ISO variants in store, you could quickly switch without the need to purchase a full keyboard.

[Muirium]

Argh! Science!

At least you didn’t do that to a nice, well formed cap, I suppose.

[del20nd]

I'm almost certain that those are not stickers. It would make sense from a tooling standpoint if the molds are multi-piece with the top part being separate to allow for media blasting (texture), different maintenance intervals, homing bumps, etc. I'd bet that the tooling fitment just had some variation over the years which causes a parting line on some caps but not others.

Here's a cap off a Wheelwriter with a similar line. I took a sliver out of it with a knife and it's indeed uniform plastic all the way through, no sticker.

IMG_20221026_092607.jpg

IMG_20221026_092715.jpg

This is exactly what I'd first suspected! Given how much more OP's look like stickers, I say that there's still a chance of that being the case and the only way we'll know for sure is if they try to peel it off.

They don't need to cut a slab out of it like you did to the wheel writer though. That would be a crying shame if it really were a mint condition IBM F XT.

[maxgpdx]

It's not a sticker, both of my model Fs had this as well, although to a lesser degree. As far as I can tell it's just part of how the keycaps were made to have that texture, and some boards have it much more noticeable than others. It could also be made worse by wear on the keycaps.

Still, the keycaps you bought are for sure not "mint." The yellowing around the legend (dyesub bleed maybe?) would be indicative of wear or poor storage at the least.

[andrewjoy]

I have not seen this before its quite strange. Thanks to the applied violence from jsheradin we can see its a single injection moulded part so the sticker theory is indeed out. The edge of the top texture looks almost painted on, i am wondering if its a worn injection mould however this also does not hold water as before it was refreshed the unicomp stuff did not fail in this way. There where other sources of parts than the ones unicomp ended up with so i am wondering if its an artefact or some different tooling that was used by someone else .

[guidemetothelight]

... Æürøpéàñs?

F*ck , i almost spilled coffee on my work Laptop because i chuckled so hard ... that was unexpected

[AJM]

I don't know, if the keycap on the left has a sticker or not, but as strange as it sounds - that yellow coloring is quite certainly proof, that the keycaps are indeed mint.
I have the same effect on keycaps of a NOS Model F XT (which have undoubtedly no stickers on them).