Best way to check real Alps switch

[maxrunner]

So i was wondering what is the best way to check which alps are on the keyboards, and the best way to dismount the switches in case it's necessary which it seems its almost everytime.

regards,

[Daniel Beardsmore]

The only way to be sure is to open the switch, although with blue ALPS it seems that the complicated switches were deep grey-blue and the clones were a more vivid shade. You could start by posting a photo of the keyboard together with its model number and we may be able to state authoratively what switch it has, or at least narrow it down.

If you do want to find out for sure, remove the keycap, and insert two miniature screwdrivers (and they really must be the smallest size possible) between the shell and the front and back securing tabs, prise the tabs open, and ease the upper shell clear of the switch. (There will be YouTube videos etc covering this better.) I would suggest you pick a worthless key (i.e. Scroll Lock if it's a PC keyboard) to take apart in case you screw it up. Whatever you do, don't practice on an important key!

The important caveats:

Alps switches are tricky to reassemble: I always hold the keyboard upside down and push the upper shell (with the tactile/click leaf, return spring and slider in place) into the keyboard from below, but apparently you can also use a strong magnet or vaseline to hold the parts together and lower them into the switch.

Worse, simplified switches are a nightmare to put back together. Simplified Types II (XM) and IV can be easily identified by having two small tabs on each side of the shell instead of one long tab per side (the XM is the rear switch with the LED):

http://deskthority.net/wiki/File:XM_wit ... _Fukka.jpg

Do not open one of these unless you're mad (I learnt this the hard way). Actually who cares, you'll only throw away the keyboard in disgust if you end up with one ;-)

I've never taken apart a Type II/Fukka, and they look identical to complicated switches with the long tab on each side.

[ndp]

...
I've never taken apart a Type II/Fukka, and they look identical to complicated switches with the long tab on each side.

There's a little difference on the upper shell: the 2 small plastic parts on each side of the hole (where the stem hit the upper shell). Larger for the complicated ALPS, smaller for the simplified.

... Oh wait ... Black complicated look identical to black simplified (Fukka)

[Findecanor]

... insert two miniature screwdrivers (and they really must be the smallest size possible) ...

There are also tweezers that are the right size for this. That is what I have used. I can hold the upper housing with the tweezers. It is almost impossible not to scratch the plastic of the switch, though.

I've never taken apart a Type II/Fukka, and they look identical to complicated switches with the long tab on each side.

Fukka switches ("Fuhua") also have the ALPS logo. There are ALPS-compatible switches that don't.

To get them out, desolder on the PCB (using soldering iron, solder pump and solder wick) and then pull from the top.

[maxrunner]

Its actually two orteks MKC-84 one is the FX model, the other might be the SX one but it doesnt say it on the model number but it says on the cardbox. The FX switches are more clicky and don't say anything in the switch the other as the words ALPS on the switch. Ill try take some photos and post them.

[maxrunner]

Ortek MCK-84SX and FX model:


Ortek SX(?) switch:



Ortek SX back:



Ortek SX with FX version switch on top:




I'll post the other later.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Every reference I can find to the MKC-84 lists either Simplified Type I or II ALPS; there is no suggestion that either one used original complicated switches. The FX switch is clearly a Type II or IV simplified (you can see the four little tabs around the switch), so I'm going with Type II as is recorded elsewhere; I would not be surprised if you distinctly prefer the feel of the SX over the FX as a result of this.

The SX switch is likely a Type II/Fukka, where white = clicky.

In both cases, I'd suggest not opening the switch, although if you do fancy it, it would be really useful for the wiki, as I wasn't aware that cream Type II/IV existed, and a photo of the internals would define which type it is. The switch definitely clicks when you press it, right? (Though one can tell that from the internals as well.)

[maxrunner]

Ortek mck84FX with switch:




Ortek mck84FX back:


They're both clicky, the FX is a little more clicky, still i don't know which is the fukka type, still in the FX one its more difficult to press the big keys if not pressed on the center of it, its more stiff. The SX is not, its less clicky but the tactile feels more right then the FX one can't quite put it.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

The cream ones in the FX are Simplified Type II ("XM") or Type IV (can't tell which without the switch being opened).

The white ones in the SX are Simplified Type I – I don't actually know whether these switches in question were manufactured by Alps Electric or Forward Electronics AKA Fuhua ("Fukka").

[maxrunner]

Which of these are regarded has better?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

The Type I in the SX :) They're ridiculously loud, and not as tactile, but they're very smooth. Most people call them "Fukkas" but I'm trying to be careful to only use that term when I'm sure Fuhua (Forward Electronics) made them, as I think Alps Electric made Type I switches before Fuhua ("Fukka") took over.

Type II switches (AKA "XM" – no idea who XM are) are notoriously hard to type on and most people hate them. If you don't think that they're that much worse, I do wonder if they're Type IV: my (really old) Type IV keyboard is stiff and annoying but nowhere near as bad as the XM keyboard I had. That's why I'd like to see that switch taken apart, but they're so hard to put back together :°(

There's so little reliable information on Alps switches – it's a real nightmare!

[maxrunner]

Yes, the FX seems to be more harder to type on, so you might be correct on that switches, the SX isn't as loud but feels easier to type on...