Topre vs Matias-silent switches. My first impressions

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I don't notice any appreciable difference between the two.

[Julle]

I'm assuming the closest Cherry counterpart to this switch would be the MX clear. Does anyone have any experience how the Quiet Pro switch compare to it?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

MX clear is a stiff linear switch with a bump. The peak force of 100 cN is much higher than the 65 cN tactile peak, and you really feel this: after the tactile bump, the force continues to rise very sharply. You learn not to bottom it out because it's just too fatiguing, and during this learning process the switch takes on a stiff, mushy feel for every key pressed even slightly too hard.

I find that while I don't bottom out when typing, I still press some keys too hard (maybe things like ctrl and win, or F keys), and encounter the high resistance in doing so, which feels wrong.

It's not a bad switch, but it takes a lot of getting used to, whereas the Matias quiet switch is the easiest to acclimatise switch I have ever used.

[polpo]

No crooked keys on the Mini Quiet Pro I got from the latest batch:

[Trev]

No crooked keys on the Mini Quiet Pro I got from the latest batch:

That's a pretty drastic change compared to my Laptop Pro. There wasn't any row that would've looked normal in a side photo.

[keebler]

Loved the review.

I just wanted to announce, I am building a custom keyboard, not-unlike the KBT Pure in layout, with the Matias Quiet Clicks.

Look for the Indiegogo Campaign at the end of August/Early September, as well as a more formal thread detailing the process.

[sordna]

Question, do these quiet alps bind at all, especially if you hit them off center, or do the always provide a smooth and unobstructed motion ?
I only tried one ALPS variant keyboard once, and the switches would stick/bind if you didn't hit them on center, so it was terrible to type on. Cherry MX bind a bit if you hit them really off center, but not much. Topre seem better in that department.
So I'd like to know how these quiet Matias ALPS do in this respect, can anyone please provide some info ?

[Burz]

I'm not feeling any tendency to bind, even when I try to force it by putting the middle of my fingertip on the edge of a key and pressing diagonally, toward or away from the key. Compared with the black ALPS on my Dell, the Matias quiet switches feel completely unobstructed.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I've just got a white Alps keyboard that's absolutely horrible to type on. I don't know what's happened to it, but the switches do bind when hit at the corners, and it's horribly stiff — the effort required to force the switches down slows my typing significantly. The keys are partially binding most of the time — it's the sort of keyboard you'd want for a boot camp. I have it on my desk at work, and I just gave up with it and went back to my Filco as it was just too awful to keep using. (It's a shame, as it has a lovely subdued sound that's not too disturbing for an office environment.)

I don't know what Alps did wrong, but their switches can end up in a really bad state; this is a real gotcha with buying Alps keyboards: you may end up with a completely knackered one. I left a blue Alps keyboard in a damp, dust-ridden corner for years, and it's still as good as new. It's a great keyboard to type on, and the only problem I've had is a flaky numpad 3 key. I have another white Alps board — it's a bit stiff, but the only keys that bind are the wider keys, when hit at the corner, and the bigass enter key when hit on its upper row, since Nan Tan messed up the stabilisation. (Though I can't type on it at the moment as it doesn't work with a Blue Cube — it just resets over and over endlessly.)

Obviously we don't know what Matias switches will be like in 10, 20, 30 years' time, but they're fine when new, just like Alps switches. Alps switches are also fine when you get a good one. I'm just not going to spend a lot of money on one I haven't tried in person again :) I paid a fraction of the price for one that works ten times better!

[Muirium]

I think you're already on to the reason why, Daniel:

Some switch types, such as most Alps designs and clones and Futabas, transfer the keystroke force directly against the switch contacts, via the slider.

Comparatively, Cherry and SMK switches, and SMK copies (e.g. KPT) are the opposite: when the slider is pressed, it clears out of the way of the movable contact, which closes under its own power. When the slider is released, the movable contact is opened under the power of the return spring. This means that, at no point, is any force from the user's finger ever transferred to any sprung part.

Is this likely to make any difference to switch longevity?

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/sli ... t6348.html

I owe you for the Zenith keyboard you sent me. Once I've figured out a good way to box my Soarer's converter, so it's not a fragile ball of wires, I should make you one too!

[Daniel Beardsmore]

That's only idle speculation. If anything, it should make the actuator leaf weaker, and lead to intermittent contact when it's been bent out of shape. I can't see it making the switch stiffer and prone to binding. All I know is that more people remark about the poor condition of Alps switches more than anything else. It's certainly not to be taken as any indicator of quality or longevity of Matias switches — for example, Matias quiet switches are so much better than any complicated switch Alps ever made. (I've not used Alps simplified black yet.)

I am not sure what I need a Soarer's converter for. The Nan Tan works fine with a Belkin converter, but I don't have that to hand. The price of a Model F doesn't justify the hassle of typing on something with a useless layout. (OK, you're layout-adaptible — I'm not ;-) Everything I have is USB, PS/2 or XT/AT.

[Muirium]

Fair enough. If you have the adapter you need, no problem. I just hate to see people struggle needlessly. Layout adaptability is of course much easier when you can rejigger the living stink out of them!

Everything I hear about Matias switches seems to be quite positive. Half tempted to build something out of them, for the manic backlighting possibilities alone! The tactile switch is as nice as any I've encountered. But it's still the second best switch in Matias' lineup, as far as I'm concerned!

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Depends on the environment. Someone posted a recording of a Quiet Pro over on geekhack, which makes the Quiet Pro out to be quite loud and rattly. In reality, it's anything but. It's an extremely quiet keyboard. Personally I'd prefer it without the little rubber dampers in the switches, to get some clack going. Maybe one day, Matias will offer every combination: clicky, damped clicky, tactile, damped tactile, linear, and damped linear. Otherwise, a more enterprising deskthoritarian will need to build a switch-opening-damper-removing/adding/click-leaf-removing group-buy-machine :)

[Muirium]

Are Matias' switches as mix and matchable, internally, as Cherry's ever so sneaky MX line?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Seems so — I'm now holding a damped clicky switch.

Actually, this feels good …

[Burz]

Seems so — I'm now holding a damped clicky switch.

Actually, this feels good …

That's actually a good idea: Get rid of the noise that doesn't correspond to actuation, while keeping the actuation clicks.

Matias could have two more whole lines of switches... if they also did linears. They could even do a linear switch that's dampened only at the top... I imagine that would be a substantial advantage over Cherry MX (and O ring mods).

[sordna]

I'm not feeling any tendency to bind, even when I try to force it by putting the middle of my fingertip on the edge of a key and pressing diagonally, toward or away from the key. Compared with the black ALPS on my Dell, the Matias quiet switches feel completely unobstructed.

Ok, thanks for this

Trev, any comments on your side, since you've had this keyboard for several months now ?

[002]

I am pretty sure Trev ditched his Matias board (sold too IIRC) and is using the Topre primarily these days. He was working on a customised Cherry board there at one point with lubed and stickered switches and I think he finished it but is still using the Topre anyway.

[Burz]

Trev's unit was defective IIRC.

[ماء]

How to feel topre switch without spring? still good or like regular RD?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

The spring is supposed to be 5 cN, I think. It won't affect the feel all that much, but the switch won't work any more if you pull the spring out :) The spring is part of the capacitance sensor!

[ماء]

So,you can make membrane for topre like NMB Switches(apple keyboard)i see it.
for mod topre

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Topre keyboards are not membrane. See [wiki]Membrane vs rubber dome[/wiki].

[ماء]

Topre keyboards are not membrane. See [wiki]Membrane vs rubber dome[/wiki].

Yes topre indded not membrane if including spring,spring the make electric capacitive
i want to know how if without spring,what they can work with membrane?
Nah,i also see razer anansi/tarantula rubber dome not membrane

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Topre isn't membrane at all, with the spring or without the spring.

I don't understand your question.

[ماء]

Topre isn't membrane at all, with the spring or without the spring.

I don't understand your question.

Dinamit,they not work with membrane apparently
Sorry,but i understand your answer.
But thanks