Daniel Beardsmore wrote:tuxsavvy: From my perspective, I don't imagine the gh/DT split being reconcilable; I simply read and post to both forums. I restrict myself solely to the Keyboards section of GH (as their forum hierarchy is so sprawling), although that may mean that I am missing out on things that no-one else is ever going to post to our wiki.
I can say this, though: the split did at least give the community worldwide its first real, usable wiki, and I had little interest in DT before rootworm — it was rootworm that resolved the question of which wiki to post to, and why. It is a shame that we could not have made this same progress without such a mess.
Heh apologies for getting long winded, I just wanted to make sure that when I mention things I mention them with as much clarity and with enough repetition for things that I consider somewhat sensitive topics for discussion.
Granted there would be hardly any geekhack users may want to post on deskthority wiki but I personally believe both have their own wikis as well as their own forums and communities alike could really do some sharing. You mentioned the reconilability of GH/DT being unlikely. Again I must stress the idea that I am trying to emphasise constantly is that I am not implying DT and GH should shake hands, merge together as one. I am saying for common grounds such as wikis, group buys and such could really be shared for instance. Sure having them split has its own benefits but also merging (based on some sort of agreeable collaboration) may also propose new benefits.
One of my main issue is really contributing stuff to the wiki. Again it does not have much regards to geekhack forums apart from just references and links pointing to the aforementioned forum. However having two separate wiki such as Deskthority wiki and Geekhack wiki shows the lack of collaboration between two likeminded sites. This then makes a curious end user as to why there is a split. Sure the community is different but for wiki contributors needing to try and hope that they are not "favouring" one over another can be seen somewhat as a confronting issue. It sort of leaves the impression that these two sites are not only targeting different regions but also may seem to have some sentimental holdovers over one and another.
The likely end result with split wiki in my case (again I have no intentions to propose merging of the two forums as such) creates "overlaps" with people posting groupbuys/interest checks for instance on two forums because the end result were simply to attract as much enthusiast as possible. At the same time it may kill the thought of persisting with such idea as it creates unnecessary extra work which maybe would not be such a real big issue had there been some collaborations on certain parts.
The same thing again, with wikis. The lack of wiki contributors may not only be because of the fact that there are generally hardly anyone willing to write stuff up that is in some agreeable quality by all. However, I believe DT and GH having their own wiki even though again at the end of the day we are only discussing mechanical keyboards should really not be an oversight in its own right. If both are discussing the same topics on mechanical keyboards, why is there a need to have a separate wiki? I mean wouldn't it be better that both tries to compromise one and another on various aspects of mechanical keyboard discussion so that for any new wiki contributors to easily see that there is no "bias" for contributing on one wiki and neglecting the other?
Again the issue with wiki can get interesting, both forums share interesting information on particular subjects however. The lack of (or even part thereof) for wiki collaborations may mean that if a specific forum poster were to make their information available specifically on one wiki. Do you (or anyone else) think that is an agreeable outcome? not only does Deskthority and Geekhack have their own wikis but forum posters (notably vendors) have the right to post certain information on one specific site and not the other? If this is ok then I have no further comment/questions to add as this segregates the already crowded enthusiast environment.
This issue is not just limited to wiki entries, seeking permissions would require to not only be explicitly written for two wikis (again unneeded redundancy really) and not only that sharing the exact same information even though they are by the exact same information. If I sought permissions for use of photos from one author for a wiki and because there are no collaboration between either wiki it just means I need to seek extra permissions from the same author for use on another forum. The issue becomes two-fold whereby if there were some agreeable terms on what DT and GH could agree on in terms of wiki contents I would not need to seek separate permissions for each and every case.
I personally believe a fair amount of extra work for the exact same result is really showing indications of the lack of willingness from either sites even though they share similar bases - mechanical keyboards. Imagine two brothers having to share over one toy but because the toy in this case was favoured to one and not the other it is therefore seen as a subject of bitter rivalry between the two brothers over a mere toy. There is only one wiki contributor for HHKB pages - me. I have written up a fair amount for HHKB notably on DT wiki. This also potentially give future wiki contributors to heed on this "invisible divide" between the two wiki on the very same subject of mechanical keyboards.
The intention was to not start splitting hairs however I think clearly the lack of contributors plus this divide between two wikis even though the community more or less share the same end product is a little astounding. In hindsight whilst the lack of current contributors have to choose to favour which wiki, the future wiki contributors may decide to seek alternative places to contribute their work because they do not want to get entangled in this mess.
Should my intentions were to be seen as the merging of wiki, then I must stress again as a simple misunderstanding. My intentions with wiki collaborations is for DT wiki to show general information of a keyboard and then links to GH wiki for any modifications regarding the same keyboard. GH wiki on the other hand whilst showing information regarding modifications on the same keyboard points to DT wiki to inform viewers to seek DT wiki for general information regarding the same keyboard. That was my proposal. Nothing about copy and pasting wiki between the two but just simple links to credit each other on the very same aspect of the exact same keyboard. Again this is only wiki, nothing about forum merges or whatever.
I could again draw out a very simple proposal:
HHKB Pro page:
- Conceptualisation, list of series, and specific information on each of the variations are all on deskthority wiki. A new sub-section is written on deskthority wiki for the same HHKB Pro page titled "Modifications, etc". The new sub-section tells the user to check the "sister" wiki site GH wiki for HHKB Pro modifications, etc with a link to GH wiki for HHKB Pro modifications, etc.
- Meanwhile, on GH wiki with the same page on HHKB Pro, has a whole bunch of information on modifications and other non-DT wiki compliant information such as paraphernalia. Then has a sub-section for conceptualisation, list of series, specific variant information all pointing back towards DT wiki on the same page of HHKB Pro for general wiki information.
If the wiki collaboration proposal as I mentioned above still sounds complicated, I can after seeking approval from both the wiki moderators here and GH wiki moderators to temporarily draft up my idea in a more visual manner.
If the idea gets the green light after both wiki moderators can agree on information sharing for the same keyboard pages such as what I mentioned above. I am not going to force any wiki contributors (moderators) or not to make the changes immediately on any keyboard related wiki. At the end of the day all I am seeking are thoughts and potentially approval on the matter for both. As said if it does get approval, I can then for the pages I work on I will try and link two the two wikis together in a way that they both compliment each other in specific ways. Hopefully I am hoping that this may attract more wiki contributors from either sides on a joint project rather than favouring, double handling and dealing with any issues afterwards for a simple share of information.
Just my 0.02 cents.