Wiki Q and A

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Daniel Beardsmore

08 Feb 2014, 14:08

CPTBadAss wrote:It seems that mediawiki and needing an account granted by the mods were too much of a barrier for an entry.
I assume that everyone over at Geekhack missed the part where the front page of the Deskthority wiki reads "This wiki is part of the deskthority forum - sign in with your forum account and start editing! There is no separate registration …"

From what I read in on of the relevant topics, manual wiki account creation on request at Geekhack was done on purpose, not because no-one was competent enough to integrate the logins. In either case, there is no technical reason for it to have ended up where it is today. Quite simply, it brought about its own obsolescence from a combination of poor administration and a failure of anyone to restore all the contents from the Wayback Machine/private notes/memory the instant that it was reinstated. It's like a race with no pit stops: geekhack is the competitor just sat on the track going nowhere and it's been long, long overtaken so greatly that there is no going back.

The old GH wiki was no use either: the only time I ever made any changes, they were stuck indefinitely in a moderation queue and sat there until rootworm destroyed them. The old Geekhack wiki was a complete disaster. You couldn't even navigate around it — whatever excuse for a wiki they had, missed pretty much every point. As a result, you tended to end up with "vomit" pages — several related topics just dumped onto one enormous page that didn't play with any other pages, as all the pages were just islands in a void. I have no desire to see that brought back unless it is intended solely for project pages (mods, group buys etc) where there is little need to tightly integrate all the pages with cross-links. I don't see any use in bringing anything back at Geekhack unless there is a coherent plan for what it is intended to achieve. tuxsavvy has some good points; if Geekhack could settle on a specific niche, you could at least justify it.

As for "MediaWiki skills", I continually find it laughable that a community of people with a highly technical interest can't figure out some of the most straightforward markup ever created. Granted, MediaWiki tables are really hard to work on, but there's even graphical assistance with that. Everything else you need as a beginner can figure out by simply comparing a page to its markup (open the Edit link in a new tab), and you can always copy/paste markup from other pages and just change the bits that are different.

tuxsavvy: The one that irritates me is the use of the DT wiki for a project and group buy marketplace. There should be a separate site for that, leaving the wiki to report on group buys from an "outside", documentary perspective.

As for mod projects — not hugely keen on them being included either, but at least they're more documentary, so I just ignore them. Sometimes they're useful for photos to poach for other pages ;-)

There is of course no way that anyone at DT would put anything on a geekhack wiki as there's too much festering animosity here against geekhack.

User avatar
kint

08 Feb 2014, 15:05

Daniel Beardsmore wrote:...I assume that everyone over at Geekhack missed the part where the front page of the Deskthority wiki reads "This wiki is part of the deskthority forum - sign in with your forum account and start editing! There is no separate registration …"....
I think CPT was referring to the GH wiki barrier:
CPTBadAss wrote:... And the mediawiki on GH hasn't worked for our community. It seems that mediawiki and needing an account granted by the mods were too much of a barrier for an entry...
Unless you're heading for: GH editors could just read that there is no such barrier on the DT wiki like it is/was on the GH one, and should just start to edit. Which of course is true.
Daniel Beardsmore wrote:...As for "MediaWiki skills", I continually find it laughable that a community of people with a highly technical interest can't figure out some of the most straightforward markup ever created. Granted, MediaWiki tables are really hard to work on, but there's even graphical assistance with that. Everything else you need as a beginner can figure out by simply comparing a page to its markup (open the Edit link in a new tab), and you can always copy/paste markup from other pages and just change the bits that are different.....
Totally true. Even an average pc user like me can edit with the several tabs, copy/paste and preview method. I do it like this on Wikipedia and will do so here. It takes more time, true, but the more you do the more fluent it gets. As there are lots of computer professionals on here, writing code and designing pages, the term "skills" is most obviously an excuse.

* big group buys like the Round 5 one are a part of the community, and the info should be part of the wiki. Personally I don't see the need for the smaller ones, but out of fairness, why not. It might be helpful if someone wants to lookup what that buy inherited back then anyway. As long as the coordinator takes care of the wiki entry, and it's not a burden for others working on more important entries and it's categorised accordingly I don't see a problem with that. Inclusionist vs exclusionist dilemma?

* same thought on mod projects. Important ones that have a lot of impact and several pages should be included.
http://deskthority.net/w/index.php?titl ... ext=Search
doesn't reflect
http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/xt-a ... t2510.html
for example. So if soarer wants to represent it in a dedicated article - why not?

tuxsavvy

08 Feb 2014, 15:40

Ouch, normally one would hear others say "shots fired!" on geekhack forums.

Anyway, I think geekhack may start looking at ways into better integration before it would seek collaboration I guess. The idea of copy and pasting on two wikis just sounds weird and redundant even though I like both GH and DT for various reasons honestly. I just hate to deal with any issues that may arise later on should both DT and GH get into some sort of competitive stance that may start "splitting" one's hairs over certain usages.

Daniel Beardsmore, Not that I was saying that deskthority wiki should have marketplace or group buys. What I actually meant was for instance:
  • A seller wants to sell a mechanical keyboard item.
  • The seller finds at least two mechanical keyboard related websites, they are geekhack and deskthority respectively (of course there is also reddit but I will not go there for now as I do not want to make the issue more complicated as it is).
  • The seller, because they are only interested in selling the item out. The seller does not care whoever the buyer is sourced let alone wherever the buyer is. The only intention is that the buyer would be keen enough to pay the money and therefore receive the item.
  • The seller realises (either sooner or later) that both deskthority and geekhack are two sites that targets two respective parts of the world. Then in a bid to attract buyers has to post in at least one of them.
  • The seller then as a result of posting on one website has already selected a targeted group of users but then needs to also post on the other website in order to target another set of users from another region.
  • The seller as a result has to either: 1) copy and paste the information as posted on one site to another. 2) copy and paste the information as posted on one site to another and then mention that the same thread also appears on the other site (with maybe link provided). 3) create a thread with only the link to the other site advising potential buyers to instead click and follow the link for further information.
Note how in the last point the seller therefore is "double dipping" and also having to do an extra set of work in order to achieve a desirable goal whereby the last point is not required because of some sort of partnership exist for instance? I believe the last point is really a killer factor for not only the seller in the case of buying/selling items but also for instance to wiki contributors for instance and/or group buy organisers of their own respective areas. That is wiki contributors writing stuff on either or both of the wikis for instance (and not posting threads on classifieds/marketplace respectively) or group buy organisers writing stuff up on wikis for instance (and posting threads on classifieds/marketplace respectively).

That said, I personally have no qualms with group buys on wiki. Regardless if they are current or historic they may provide useful information of community work where at least there were an active set of people that got together in a community derived project. Imagine of cases with ErgoDox for instance, it was totally made without any manufacturer branding for instance. Built by community for the community. Not that I would condone the uses of such information on wiki, I am sure each and every wiki could work out their ideal goals and let the contributors decide from there on where to place relevant subjects of interest. To me as a mere minority of the wiki contributors alike would personally rather see some unification of certain subjects together.

Deskthority is really useful for a collection of factual information for various aspects of keyboards. However for things like modification and condoning the modifications for instance seems to be more prevalent on Geekhack. As a very rough proposal (again, nothing is settled in concrete here - besides I am just a mere user) is that Deskthority wiki for instance be the grounds for information pertaining keyboards including background information such as history, designs, etc. Geekhack wiki for instance be the grounds for information pertaining modification of the said keyboards. Both wiki, where relevant articles for specific keyboard if not overlapping or otherwise complementing each other should have links to point each other on relevant subjects. For example, Happy Hacking Keyboard Professional series. I have noted lots of information on Happy Hacking Professional in both the background information including modification. The modification page are currently sitting within the Talk page because it is not necessarily (I personally believe) a "wiki-centric" information. Sure the Talk page of Happy Hacking Keyboard Professional are related to Happy Hacking Keyboard Professional series in some ways (as well as some other minor information pertaining to Topre Realforce actually). However, I think maybe for instance the Talk page should be migrated to Geekhack wiki and then Deskthority wiki points information pertaining modification of Happy Hacking Keyboard Professional series to Geekhack wiki. Conversely Geekhack wiki points background information about Happy Hacking Keyboard Professional series to Deskthority wiki.

I must admit there are lots of interesting information on Geekhack forums pertaining for instance the modifications to Happy Hacking Keyboard Professional in this very example. Whilst Deskthority forums does also contain information pertaining the same manner on modifications - I personally believe it may not be as diverse as Geekhack forums. Therefore in regards to modification, the information should be on "sister" wiki where it may owe a fair amount of interesting modifications based on Geekhack forums.

Personally I have no qualms with either of these two (Deskthority and Geekhack) sites but I just think in some ways, both should really get over some holdovers and once when both are on a more equal level (so to speak) should start pooling resources together. That way it may work out as a win:win compromise sort of scenario. The wiki contributors for instance does not need to double handle on certain things, the sellers and buyers may not need to worry about double posting (and maybe potentially running through similar hoops as well). The groupbuy organisers does not also need to fuss over the same issues as sellers.

Sure, Geekhack may see a fair amount of background/off-topic "noise" but otherwise there maybe some potentially useful information that may have been posted on one forum and not the other. Think of hasu's TMK project for instance. Sure hasu's work is available on two sites but think of the extra work as a result for poor hasu in keeping up with both. Think of some collaborations for yet another alternative controller for those IBM Model F and other XT keyboards. I think that thread seems to only be on Geekhack forums. The real problem that I am trying to underline here is the redundancy in trying to fulfil two (or potentially more) sites as well as their respective targeted markets for the exact same result.

Wiki at the end of the day I think is also about information. Again I do not necessarily condone posting groupbuys on wiki but if others (for other sites) are happy with using wiki for that matter is really up to them. What I do want to insist is the pooling of certain topics together rather than keeping it all separate. I personally believe that if I were to reference to a site that contains lots of "noises", I would not hesitate to do so because as a reader myself references does at times contain interesting information about certain things. In the case of Happy Hacking Keyboard Professional versus Happy Hacking Keyboard Professional "Talk page" I hope I have sort of mentioned clearly of my thoughts. Deskthority forum does not necessarily have more Happy Hacking Keyboard Professional owners for instance and to have information only on Deskthority wiki seems a little lopsided in my humble opinion (even though a whole bunch of other interesting information is coming from Geekhack forums). Copy and pasting stuff from one wiki to another regardless if the same contributor could be easily seen as plagiarising and rather moot. Linking a specific wiki page to tell the end viewer to tell them to read the information on Y wiki instead is like "shameless plug" and that the wiki that points to this other wiki without any further information about the same subject may also imply things like:
  • Information contained on that wiki, the forums or the site in general are not knowledgeable, neither are the members of the specific site.
  • Information contained on the linked wiki shows how "superior" or knowledgeable of the linked wiki, forums or the site in general along with the members regardless if they know about the keyboard in intricate detail or not.
I cannot stress constantly of how I have no qualms/bicker/hatred between these two mechanical keyboard enthusiasts forums. I like both of them in their own respective ways however I think if segregation like this were to persist in the future it may not bode well with potential wiki contributors as they have to choose which side of the fence the want to be on for instance.

User avatar
webwit
Wild Duck

08 Feb 2014, 15:53

What the world needs is a wiki about vanity keycaps.

User avatar
Soarer

08 Feb 2014, 16:58

Hah, well, one reason I cross-posted my converter here was all the rollbacks on GH. I think I updated the thread there to "v1.0" about 3 or 4 times :(

Not the only reason by a long way of course :D

User avatar
Daniel Beardsmore

08 Feb 2014, 18:43

kint wrote:I think CPT was referring to the GH wiki barrier:
CPTBadAss wrote:... And the mediawiki on GH hasn't worked for our community. It seems that mediawiki and needing an account granted by the mods were too much of a barrier for an entry...
Deskthority is programmed to automatically create a matching wiki account for you and your forum and MediaWiki accounts are kept in sync. There is no barrier here.

Geekhack has always had pointless barriers, none of which were ever for legitimate technical reasons.

Granted, the other part of his sentence suggests that the old wiki used BBCode instead of a wiki dialect, i.e. one that saves all the snowflakes from having to learn a different one — it's been "so long" (read: over a year since rootworm) that I forget what the syntax was. I gave up due to the moderation barrier.

I don't object to wiki pages on group buys—in fact, I encourage them (I've posted two recently), but they're documentary in nature, i.e. a description of what did happen, instead of using it as marketing material. Maybe the difference only exists in my mind.

tuxsavvy: ...............................

I will have to read that later. You've written more words than I've just taken photos of Alps switches (admittedly, only 242).

User avatar
Muirium
µ

08 Feb 2014, 19:21

Soarer wrote:Hah, well, one reason I cross-posted my converter here was all the rollbacks on GH. I think I updated the thread there to "v1.0" about 3 or 4 times :(

Not the only reason by a long way of course :D
One of the others being so that I can see it! Whenever I browse GH, I get lost and wind up looking at skulls and Korean customs.

User avatar
Daniel Beardsmore

08 Feb 2014, 22:40

tuxsavvy: From my perspective, I don't imagine the gh/DT split being reconcilable; I simply read and post to both forums. I restrict myself solely to the Keyboards section of GH (as their forum hierarchy is so sprawling), although that may mean that I am missing out on things that no-one else is ever going to post to our wiki.

I can say this, though: the split did at least give the community worldwide its first real, usable wiki, and I had little interest in DT before rootworm — it was rootworm that resolved the question of which wiki to post to, and why. It is a shame that we could not have made this same progress without such a mess.

User avatar
webwit
Wild Duck

09 Feb 2014, 02:23

You make it sound like there was some split, like there was a fight and a fraction split. There was no such thing, urban legend. For different reasons me and sixty were bored with gh, and we were exploring the Korean and Japanese scene, sharing shipping costs on hauls from Yahoo Auctions Japan, getting deep into Topre, but mostly getting them custom keycaps, controllers and keyboards from OTD. Look at your custom stuff. Most of it originated at On The Desk, that's where part of our name comes from, and that is what mostly inspired us to start an English language forum. There were some other motivations too, but none of them were about splitting "the community". We just wanted our own forum and do it our way and focus on things we were into.

User avatar
Daniel Beardsmore

09 Feb 2014, 02:31

You may not have intended to split it, but I am not sure how you could start a forum whose purpose is the same as a forum you're already in, and be blind to the fact that you're going to create a split. Now there's animosity on both sides.

Whether it was a good or a bad move, is a wholly different question, but I am not entirely sure what you were expecting.

User avatar
webwit
Wild Duck

09 Feb 2014, 02:46

Nonsense, like there can be only one of anything so only one English language keyboard forum? The horror of monoculture, if there would be only one of anything. The whole animosity thing is mostly harmless banter and just proves these places have different identities, which justifies the existence of both. If we had no different identity, this place would not have survived.

User avatar
Daniel Beardsmore

09 Feb 2014, 02:52

I thought they banned you?

User avatar
002
Topre Enthusiast

09 Feb 2014, 04:02


User avatar
sth
2 girls 1 cuprubber

09 Feb 2014, 09:10


User avatar
webwit
Wild Duck

09 Feb 2014, 09:52

I was not banned. I asked for my account to be suspended.

tuxsavvy

09 Feb 2014, 13:17

Daniel Beardsmore wrote:tuxsavvy: From my perspective, I don't imagine the gh/DT split being reconcilable; I simply read and post to both forums. I restrict myself solely to the Keyboards section of GH (as their forum hierarchy is so sprawling), although that may mean that I am missing out on things that no-one else is ever going to post to our wiki.

I can say this, though: the split did at least give the community worldwide its first real, usable wiki, and I had little interest in DT before rootworm — it was rootworm that resolved the question of which wiki to post to, and why. It is a shame that we could not have made this same progress without such a mess.
Heh apologies for getting long winded, I just wanted to make sure that when I mention things I mention them with as much clarity and with enough repetition for things that I consider somewhat sensitive topics for discussion.

Granted there would be hardly any geekhack users may want to post on deskthority wiki but I personally believe both have their own wikis as well as their own forums and communities alike could really do some sharing. You mentioned the reconilability of GH/DT being unlikely. Again I must stress the idea that I am trying to emphasise constantly is that I am not implying DT and GH should shake hands, merge together as one. I am saying for common grounds such as wikis, group buys and such could really be shared for instance. Sure having them split has its own benefits but also merging (based on some sort of agreeable collaboration) may also propose new benefits.

One of my main issue is really contributing stuff to the wiki. Again it does not have much regards to geekhack forums apart from just references and links pointing to the aforementioned forum. However having two separate wiki such as Deskthority wiki and Geekhack wiki shows the lack of collaboration between two likeminded sites. This then makes a curious end user as to why there is a split. Sure the community is different but for wiki contributors needing to try and hope that they are not "favouring" one over another can be seen somewhat as a confronting issue. It sort of leaves the impression that these two sites are not only targeting different regions but also may seem to have some sentimental holdovers over one and another.

The likely end result with split wiki in my case (again I have no intentions to propose merging of the two forums as such) creates "overlaps" with people posting groupbuys/interest checks for instance on two forums because the end result were simply to attract as much enthusiast as possible. At the same time it may kill the thought of persisting with such idea as it creates unnecessary extra work which maybe would not be such a real big issue had there been some collaborations on certain parts.

The same thing again, with wikis. The lack of wiki contributors may not only be because of the fact that there are generally hardly anyone willing to write stuff up that is in some agreeable quality by all. However, I believe DT and GH having their own wiki even though again at the end of the day we are only discussing mechanical keyboards should really not be an oversight in its own right. If both are discussing the same topics on mechanical keyboards, why is there a need to have a separate wiki? I mean wouldn't it be better that both tries to compromise one and another on various aspects of mechanical keyboard discussion so that for any new wiki contributors to easily see that there is no "bias" for contributing on one wiki and neglecting the other?

Again the issue with wiki can get interesting, both forums share interesting information on particular subjects however. The lack of (or even part thereof) for wiki collaborations may mean that if a specific forum poster were to make their information available specifically on one wiki. Do you (or anyone else) think that is an agreeable outcome? not only does Deskthority and Geekhack have their own wikis but forum posters (notably vendors) have the right to post certain information on one specific site and not the other? If this is ok then I have no further comment/questions to add as this segregates the already crowded enthusiast environment.

This issue is not just limited to wiki entries, seeking permissions would require to not only be explicitly written for two wikis (again unneeded redundancy really) and not only that sharing the exact same information even though they are by the exact same information. If I sought permissions for use of photos from one author for a wiki and because there are no collaboration between either wiki it just means I need to seek extra permissions from the same author for use on another forum. The issue becomes two-fold whereby if there were some agreeable terms on what DT and GH could agree on in terms of wiki contents I would not need to seek separate permissions for each and every case.

I personally believe a fair amount of extra work for the exact same result is really showing indications of the lack of willingness from either sites even though they share similar bases - mechanical keyboards. Imagine two brothers having to share over one toy but because the toy in this case was favoured to one and not the other it is therefore seen as a subject of bitter rivalry between the two brothers over a mere toy. There is only one wiki contributor for HHKB pages - me. I have written up a fair amount for HHKB notably on DT wiki. This also potentially give future wiki contributors to heed on this "invisible divide" between the two wiki on the very same subject of mechanical keyboards.

The intention was to not start splitting hairs however I think clearly the lack of contributors plus this divide between two wikis even though the community more or less share the same end product is a little astounding. In hindsight whilst the lack of current contributors have to choose to favour which wiki, the future wiki contributors may decide to seek alternative places to contribute their work because they do not want to get entangled in this mess.

Should my intentions were to be seen as the merging of wiki, then I must stress again as a simple misunderstanding. My intentions with wiki collaborations is for DT wiki to show general information of a keyboard and then links to GH wiki for any modifications regarding the same keyboard. GH wiki on the other hand whilst showing information regarding modifications on the same keyboard points to DT wiki to inform viewers to seek DT wiki for general information regarding the same keyboard. That was my proposal. Nothing about copy and pasting wiki between the two but just simple links to credit each other on the very same aspect of the exact same keyboard. Again this is only wiki, nothing about forum merges or whatever.

I could again draw out a very simple proposal:
HHKB Pro page:
  • Conceptualisation, list of series, and specific information on each of the variations are all on deskthority wiki. A new sub-section is written on deskthority wiki for the same HHKB Pro page titled "Modifications, etc". The new sub-section tells the user to check the "sister" wiki site GH wiki for HHKB Pro modifications, etc with a link to GH wiki for HHKB Pro modifications, etc.
  • Meanwhile, on GH wiki with the same page on HHKB Pro, has a whole bunch of information on modifications and other non-DT wiki compliant information such as paraphernalia. Then has a sub-section for conceptualisation, list of series, specific variant information all pointing back towards DT wiki on the same page of HHKB Pro for general wiki information.
If the wiki collaboration proposal as I mentioned above still sounds complicated, I can after seeking approval from both the wiki moderators here and GH wiki moderators to temporarily draft up my idea in a more visual manner.

If the idea gets the green light after both wiki moderators can agree on information sharing for the same keyboard pages such as what I mentioned above. I am not going to force any wiki contributors (moderators) or not to make the changes immediately on any keyboard related wiki. At the end of the day all I am seeking are thoughts and potentially approval on the matter for both. As said if it does get approval, I can then for the pages I work on I will try and link two the two wikis together in a way that they both compliment each other in specific ways. Hopefully I am hoping that this may attract more wiki contributors from either sides on a joint project rather than favouring, double handling and dealing with any issues afterwards for a simple share of information.

Just my 0.02 cents.

User avatar
webwit
Wild Duck

09 Feb 2014, 13:59

No.

First of all your premise that dt is not about modding is simply wildly incorrect. Second, geekhack has a larger userbase and started a competing mediawiki after drooling over ours, and showed they didn't know or were not able to manage and kick-start it, and of course they lack a Beardsmore. That is about long-term effort and commitment . A failure in gh's attempt to start its own wiki is hardly an advertisement, nor a motivation for dt to split content with a wiki which does hardly exist. The gh wiki didn't work, and now you want us to restrict our content and link to gh pages of unproven and historically badly managed quality which is outside our control?

What gh should do is write some good managed articles about whatever they like and show that they can do it. I'd like to see it happen. It ain't gonna magically happen without effort. Then the wiki will organically start to link to these sources, because they are worthwhile. This is already the case to some extent.

User avatar
Daniel Beardsmore

09 Feb 2014, 14:25

My head ....jpg
My head ....jpg (28.05 KiB) Viewed 2483 times

tuxsavvy

09 Feb 2014, 15:32

*takes a step back and a breather*. Alright, after getting an anonymous tipoff on history and the responses I will now scrap my idea and just contribute on deskthority wiki instead.

User avatar
Broadmonkey
Fancy Rank

09 Feb 2014, 21:43

Sorry if this is no longer a part of the discussion, but there is just too much text atm.
But regarding the whole what-should-we-call-the-different-sizes-of-keyboards, I made this since there seemed to be some confusion as to what a 60% is. This is how I see the different sizes:
60-65-75-87.png
60-65-75-87.png (61.63 KiB) Viewed 2456 times
As I see it, a keyboard that fit's in a 15x5 matrix is a 60%, add a column and it's a 65% and so on. It doesn't matter if some keys are not used like on the HHKB, as long as it stays within the matrix. Defining a keyboard on it's footprint is a bad idea IMO, as some keyboard might fit in an A4 paper but is actually a 75% and the other way around, it's just inconsistent.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

09 Feb 2014, 21:53

Excellent thinking and sterling illustrations, Broadmonkey. I'm entirely of the opinion that 60% refers to area rather than linear size, too.

I'll just point out that your system works by multiplying X and Y and then dividing by 1.25*. So a 60% is 15*5 = 75. Divided by 1.25 is 60.

By your system, a number row-less 60% becomes a 15*4 = 60 / 1.25 = 48%. And my planned function row-less TKL 18 x 5 layout = 18*5/1.25 = 72%. Sounds about right.

* Actually, now I check, 1.25 is just a guide. There's still tweaking involved to get the terms we're used to. But it's close enough to be useful.

User avatar
Broadmonkey
Fancy Rank

09 Feb 2014, 22:54

Yeah, I don't know how well it works, but they are the names already used by the community and thus pretty hard to alter.
I think the % names shouldn't, and would not be suitable, for all different layouts, eg. G80-1800 should just simply be called a 1800 as it is known.
Also, this is not 100% (although it should have been) it's simply called a full size:
FullSize.png
FullSize.png (32.99 KiB) Viewed 2440 times

tuxsavvy

15 Feb 2014, 03:12

Ok, I just roughly added information about 60% keyboards as I was trying to push forth before but had realised editing the category page instead kills two birds with one stone hence my initial idea was rather moot. What do you guys think of this newer version of my idea?

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Category:60%25_keyboards

I know this post that I am writing on is not exactly going to be a wiki Q & A but there may have been some merits for this post. :P

Broadmonkey, I love your illustrations and was thinking of maybe adding something along the lines of that on the aforementioned wiki page. Maybe as both infobox and in Design I guess. What do you think of it?

User avatar
emdude
Model M Apologist

21 Mar 2017, 01:43

Apologies for necro'ing this topic, but it seemed like the most appropriate place to post this question.

I would like to upload a scanned newspaper photo (attached w/ source below) to the [wiki]IBM_3277_typewriter_keyboard[/wiki] and am wondering if it would be okay to place a photo from what I suppose is a commercial entity, in reference to Daniel Beardsmore's post here: wiki-talk-f33/wiki-q-and-a-t4794.html#p145889

I am also wondering about copyright in regards to the photo, would it fall under fair use? I know little about copyright.
Spoiler:
IBM 3277 -- Sun Times.png
IBM 3277 -- Sun Times.png (1.15 MiB) Viewed 1302 times
IBM 3277 Back -- Sun Times .png
IBM 3277 Back -- Sun Times .png (496.35 KiB) Viewed 1302 times
EDIT: I have also uploaded three photos of the 78 key 3277 to the wiki, but mistakenly did not follow the proper naming convention. Per this, please rename them to: IBM 3277 78 Key Keyboard, IBM 3277 78 Key Keyboard -- Backplate, and IBM 3277 78 Key -- PCB.

User avatar
purdobol

03 Nov 2017, 15:55

Bumping the thread. No need to create new one.

Is there any syntax for image rotation on the wiki?
Added photos for Acer 6010 series wiki page. But the way thumbnail works seems random.
The keyboard top picture was originally horizontal yet on the preview it was rotated vertically. So rotated it in external app and now it's all messed up. Same thing happened with another picture, needed to manually rotate it to show in the preview properly.

Any ideas how to fix this?

User avatar
seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

03 Nov 2017, 16:34

purdobol wrote: Bumping the thread. No need to create new one.

Is there any syntax for image rotation on the wiki?
Added photos for Acer 6010 series wiki page. But the way thumbnail works seems random.
The keyboard top picture was originally horizontal yet on the preview it was rotated vertically. So rotated it in external app and now it's all messed up. Same thing happened with another picture, needed to manually rotate it to show in the preview properly.

Any ideas how to fix this?
I think it may have to do with the gallery pixel widths and heights not sure though. I've had this same problem and had to re-up the image.

HuBandiT

03 Nov 2017, 16:45

purdobol wrote: Any ideas how to fix this?
Most files from digital cameras have a flag in them telling which main (90 degree) orientation the camera was in when the photo was taken. The photo is still stored in the file in the original orientation the sensor saw it. Smart image viewers take the orientation flag into account when displaying the image on the screen.

My guess is that you are probably encountering a piece of software (the thumbnail generator) that does not take that flag into account, while the display of the main image does. (Or maybe it takes it into account twice, doubly rotating it in the process. Or maybe it takes the flag into account by rotating the image, and then mistakenly saving it with the original orientation flag - so that on display the image is rotated again. Etc.)

The quick-fix strategy I use in these cases is to open the image in an image editing software, rotate to correct orientation if necessary, and then make a copy by creating a new, clean (no flag) image of the same size and copy & paste the entire image into the new image, and then save/export that new image. This way in the new image there is no orientation flag present, so it displays in the right orientation regardless of whether the software takes the orientation flag into account or not.

Of course the best solution would be to investigate the problem and fix the wiki software to correctly handle the orientation flag in all cases.

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purdobol

03 Nov 2017, 17:40

HuBandiT wrote: The quick-fix strategy I use in these cases is to open the image in an image editing software, rotate to correct orientation if necessary, and then make a copy by creating a new, clean (no flag) image of the same size and copy & paste the entire image into the new image, and then save/export that new image.
Thanks. Will remember this tip for the future ;)

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

03 Nov 2017, 18:02

HuBandiT wrote: Of course the best solution would be to investigate the problem and fix the wiki software to correctly handle the orientation flag in all cases.
You're more than welcome to do that, would really impress me. ;)

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tactica

14 Nov 2017, 04:38

Upgrading MediaWiki itself to at least a supported version wouldn't hurt ;)

Ditto for imagemagick, enabling InstantCommons, installing UploadWizard or an equivalent, etc. Uploading pictures could be easier than it is ATM.

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