The Keyboardio Model 01 is now on Kickstarter
- gogusrl
- Location: Romania
- Main keyboard: Cherry G80-1851
- Main mouse: Logitech G9x
- Favorite switch: linear stuff
- DT Pro Member: -
Looks interesting but they should have offered a kit as well without keycaps or switches. ALPS support would have been nice as well to make it a true contender to the ergodox.
- Muirium
- µ
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
- Main keyboard: HHKB Type-S with Bluetooth by Hasu
- Main mouse: Apple Magic Mouse
- Favorite switch: Gotta Try 'Em All
- DT Pro Member: µ
We are also supposed to bitch about Kickstarter and European shipping / taxes. Because that's what kills so much stuff there, here.
Come to think of it: does Kickstarter allow non-US based projects? I don't recall ever seeing one.
Come to think of it: does Kickstarter allow non-US based projects? I don't recall ever seeing one.
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- Main keyboard: KBT Pure
- Main mouse: None
- Favorite switch: Cherry Brown
- DT Pro Member: -
@gogusrl - We' may offer a kit later on, but first we wanted to actually ship fully working keyboards to folks. (Though the fully working keyboards do use Matias ALPS switches
@Muirium - We're planning to use a shipper that has a European warehouse. With luck, the shipping rates we've got in there for you won't be too terrifyingly crazy.
@Muirium - We're planning to use a shipper that has a European warehouse. With luck, the shipping rates we've got in there for you won't be too terrifyingly crazy.
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- Location: Colorado, USA
- Main keyboard: IC60 & Infinity Ergodox
- DT Pro Member: -
The UK was opened up in late 2012. Nederlands opened last year, but I don't know about the rest of Europe at this point. I know I've run into a few since the Euro as donation denomination is a dead giveawayMuirium wrote: ↑Come to think of it: does Kickstarter allow non-US based projects? I don't recall ever seeing one.
- Muirium
- µ
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
- Main keyboard: HHKB Type-S with Bluetooth by Hasu
- Main mouse: Apple Magic Mouse
- Favorite switch: Gotta Try 'Em All
- DT Pro Member: µ
Good stuff. All the keyboard projects I see linked still happen to be American.
@Jesse: What costs us BAD over here is import taxes. If your stuff ships from outside Europe, it's seized as it enters, gets charged 20% tax of the declared value, often *including shipping* (or if they think you lied, 20% of whatever they reckon the whole thing should be worth) and then a processing fee is added on top here in Britain that can easily take the tax to 40% or higher. Don't pay, and you'll never get it.
I've been hit with a full doubling of price a couple of times now. And then, yes, don't forget about shipping. It's all a horrible, expensive mess. Vanishes when things are dispatched from within Europe. Well, vanishes for us. Your partner gets hit instead!
@Jesse: What costs us BAD over here is import taxes. If your stuff ships from outside Europe, it's seized as it enters, gets charged 20% tax of the declared value, often *including shipping* (or if they think you lied, 20% of whatever they reckon the whole thing should be worth) and then a processing fee is added on top here in Britain that can easily take the tax to 40% or higher. Don't pay, and you'll never get it.
I've been hit with a full doubling of price a couple of times now. And then, yes, don't forget about shipping. It's all a horrible, expensive mess. Vanishes when things are dispatched from within Europe. Well, vanishes for us. Your partner gets hit instead!
- Muirium
- µ
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
- Main keyboard: HHKB Type-S with Bluetooth by Hasu
- Main mouse: Apple Magic Mouse
- Favorite switch: Gotta Try 'Em All
- DT Pro Member: µ
Good idea. Hopefully most people from Europe visiting Kickstarter already know what to factor in. But we all start as newbs. The first time I got the ransom note I was pissed off and perplexed all at once.
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- Location: u1h2fm
- Main keyboard: Traditional Thinkpad/Ergodox
- Main mouse: Trackpoint/Vertical Mouse
- Favorite switch: Model F
- DT Pro Member: -
The german version of Kickstarter launched about two weeks ago.Muirium wrote: ↑We are also supposed to bitch about Kickstarter and European shipping / taxes. Because that's what kills so much stuff there, here.
Come to think of it: does Kickstarter allow non-US based projects? I don't recall ever seeing one.
- XMIT
- [ XMIT ]
- Location: Austin, TX area
- Main keyboard: XMIT Hall Effect
- Main mouse: CST L-Trac Trackball
- Favorite switch: XMIT 60g Tactile Hall Effect
- DT Pro Member: 0093
Jesse and I had a nice e-mail thread that he allowed me to share with you here. (It turns out Jesse and I have some common friends, and, maybe I'll get to meet him when he is passing through Austin next weekend.)
Things in quotes are my questions, with his answers inline...
Things in quotes are my questions, with his answers inline...
So far, we've found the homing bump seems to work better. We'll try bars again before we make a final call.A few quick questions for you, sorry if this is too late in the game:
- why a homing bump mid-key (AEK II style) and not a homing ridge (e.g. Topre and others, my preference)?
The final PCB design may or may not be compatible with MX switches, but the plates we ship will be ALPS-only. We may someday do a rev that takes MX switches, but we....can only do so much at a time.- is your PCB design also compatible with Cherry switches? Awesome if it is, sad if it’s not. I concur that Matias Quiet Click is nice (Alps Salmon is nicer) but being locked into Alps switches is mildly annoying.
What you see in the photos is actually polycarbonate. We can't feel the engraving while typing, though to do it right, we'll want to put another clear coating on _top_ of the laser-engraved layer.- related question - will you offer a Cherry MX mount for your key sets?
- what is your final key cap material? PBT is my preference, or a PBT/POM doubleshot for backlit legends. From the photos it looks like you have selected POM?
The problems with going to doubleshots are twofold: first up, doing one-off custom legends becomes almost impossible. Second, it's a _lot_ more expensive.- your site mentions laser engraving of keys. Will you fill this engraving? Can you feel the engraving while typing? This is one of my pet peeves with engraved keys and why I prefer double shot or dye sublimated keys, clearly not an option here.
Thanks so much for writing. These are all important issues we'll be sorting out as we move forward.Thanks for your hard work, and perhaps I’ll back your already well funded Kickstarter.
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- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
- DT Pro Member: 0011
- ramnes
- ПБТ НАВСЕГДА
- Location: France
- Main keyboard: KMAC LE
- Main mouse: Zowie AM
- Favorite switch: GPL 104 lubed 62g nixies
- DT Pro Member: -
By looking at the video, one of the main idea is to tell "this keyboard will last for your entire life". So please use PBT key caps!
Anyway, good job, wish you all the best.
Anyway, good job, wish you all the best.
- bhtooefr
- Location: Newark, OH, USA
- Main keyboard: TEX Shinobi
- Main mouse: TrackPoint IV
- Favorite switch: IBM Selectric (not a switch, I know)
- DT Pro Member: 0056
- Contact:
Kickstarter doesn't really care where you run from, as long as you have a bank account in the country that you're claiming to be from (for the payments to work with Amazon Payments properly), IIRC.
- Muirium
- µ
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
- Main keyboard: HHKB Type-S with Bluetooth by Hasu
- Main mouse: Apple Magic Mouse
- Favorite switch: Gotta Try 'Em All
- DT Pro Member: µ
Fair enough. It's not Kickstarter's fault that so many projects are taxbait. It's our bloody European customs!
I'd write to my MEP. But I can't afford the bung to make it worth their time.
I'd write to my MEP. But I can't afford the bung to make it worth their time.
- kbdfr
- The Tiproman
- Location: Berlin, Germany
- Main keyboard: Tipro MID-QM-128A + two Tipro matrix modules
- Main mouse: Contour Rollermouse Pro
- Favorite switch: Cherry black
- DT Pro Member: 0010
Customs protect national economies. In fact, paying customs contributes to securing one's own job.Muirium wrote: ↑[…] our bloody European customs! […]
Take a product manufactured in country A with a material and technology cost of $10 and a wage component of another $10, amounting to production costs of $20 per unit.
If in country B where wages are very low the wage component for manufacturing the same product is only $1, the production costs will amount to of $11 per unit.
So country A will decide to apply customs of $9 per such product imported from country B.
If it didn't, its national producer, not being able to compete, would have to close - and dismiss its staff.
This, of course, is just a simplified theoretical example
- Muirium
- µ
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
- Main keyboard: HHKB Type-S with Bluetooth by Hasu
- Main mouse: Apple Magic Mouse
- Favorite switch: Gotta Try 'Em All
- DT Pro Member: µ
I understand protectionism (which I oppose anyway, and globalisation is doing well to destroy outright) but I don't understand it when it's used on products that are far from commodities. We're talking about Kickstarter (and the like) here, which is all about niche, and often unique stuff. How does that hurt businesses at home?
The only effect our stupid customs has here is reducing European participation in innovative Kickstarters and the like. And filling the pockets of monopolists like Parcelforce in Britain (who demand unnegotiable fees above the tax claim) when we do!
The only effect our stupid customs has here is reducing European participation in innovative Kickstarters and the like. And filling the pockets of monopolists like Parcelforce in Britain (who demand unnegotiable fees above the tax claim) when we do!
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- Location: Cape Town, South Africa
- Main keyboard: MS Natural (original)
- Main mouse: Kensington Expert Mouse trackball
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
We've had similar policies here. Then the local company goes bust anyway, meaning no local manufacturer, but no, they don't lower the import duty. So in effect the citizens are punished for nothing.kbdfr wrote: ↑Take a product manufactured in country A with a material and technology cost of $10 and a wage component of another $10, amounting to production costs of $20 per unit.Muirium wrote: ↑[…] our bloody European customs! […]
If in country B where wages are very low the wage component for manufacturing the same product is only $1, the production costs will amount to of $11 per unit.
So country A will decide to apply customs of $9 per such product imported from country B.
If it didn't, its national producer, not being able to compete, would have to close - and dismiss its staff.
It's even worse when large corporates persuade governments to impose duties so that the price of the import matches their own locally-inflated prices... effectively meaning they have no price competition.
- chzel
- Location: Athens, Greece
- Main keyboard: Phantom
- Main mouse: Mionix Avior 7000
- Favorite switch: Beamspring, BS, Vintage Blacks.
- DT Pro Member: 0086
Customs could/should protect national economies.kbdfr wrote: ↑Customs protect national economies. In fact, paying customs contributes to securing one's own job.
I believe that in most countries they are just a way to make money and plug some deficits in other parts of the budget.
What you are describing is basically anti-dumping duties and they should be on a per product basis.
There is no reason for a product that is made in the USA (or anywhere outside EU) for comparable cost to have it's price increased by import duties. Especially if it is not locally produced, or competing with a local product.
What product does Germany or UK or Greece have that needs protection against lets say a PS4 or XBOX?
Edit: I should have read Mu's post! We are saying the same thing!
- Muirium
- µ
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
- Main keyboard: HHKB Type-S with Bluetooth by Hasu
- Main mouse: Apple Magic Mouse
- Favorite switch: Gotta Try 'Em All
- DT Pro Member: µ
And I edited your post so kbdfr's line defending customs was correctly attributed to him, not me. I think customs are very almost morally criminal, the way we're charged them on everything, no matter whether those things are even made here!
- cookie
- Location: Hamburg, Germany
- Main keyboard: HHKB Pro 2
- Main mouse: MX Master
- Favorite switch: Topre
- DT Pro Member: -
Nice work jesse, I highly respect the work and effort you've put in!
But I think that the larger part of people who is looking for such a split type of ergonomic keyboard will rather go for an ErgoDox than this one.
I can speak only for my self but when I see caps with backlit support I instantly lose interest in such a keyboard. Because I am going to swap them anyways, they add zero value to the product. Ans as I see the caps are not standarized, which may be smart for ergonomic purposes but it will be painfull to get replacement caps
I don't wan't to be the killjoy, sorry if I am.
Wish you all the best luck and success for your product.
But I think that the larger part of people who is looking for such a split type of ergonomic keyboard will rather go for an ErgoDox than this one.
I can speak only for my self but when I see caps with backlit support I instantly lose interest in such a keyboard. Because I am going to swap them anyways, they add zero value to the product. Ans as I see the caps are not standarized, which may be smart for ergonomic purposes but it will be painfull to get replacement caps
I don't wan't to be the killjoy, sorry if I am.
Wish you all the best luck and success for your product.