VorTex Backlit Series

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sixty
Gasbag Guru

14 Sep 2011, 16:25

We had seen some random pics of this in the picture section already, followed by a long discussion about robots, ram and sausages. So maybe this one will end a bit more on topic. Here is some more info.

* The keyboard will be made by VorTex again (same guys who made the Poker) - so we will be having a MO as soon as these are released
* Fully backlit
* Space saving design
* Various switch options likely
* Multi-functional with FN layer

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More information will be revealed soon. There is no release date or price yet.

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kbdfr
The Tiproman

14 Sep 2011, 17:30

Nice design... And so handy:

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:mrgreen:

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Brian8bit

14 Sep 2011, 21:44

I really dislike that layout.

mtl

15 Sep 2011, 04:18

Interesting keyboard. Any chance for plate-mounted switches?

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frankbartoli

15 Sep 2011, 10:20

Where I can buy it??? :P :ugeek:

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TheSoulhunter

15 Sep 2011, 17:50

Why all this non 1x1 keys? Also why the short RShift?
Would have preferred it like this (quick shoop) :3
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hsQSl7.jpg (77.81 KiB) Viewed 2504 times

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sixty
Gasbag Guru

21 Sep 2011, 21:15

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frankbartoli

21 Sep 2011, 22:16

beautiful!
When start the preorder? Sixty is possible to buy in group? I live in Italy...

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Ekaros

22 Sep 2011, 21:26

Oh why, why no one makes these sub-tenkeyless in ISO... Nice looking thingy...

AvenZerg

17 Oct 2011, 18:51

that keyboard looks soooooo awsome! i can't wait to get one of those when it comes out!

Tarkoon

21 Oct 2011, 10:11

Ekaros wrote:Oh why, why no one makes these sub-tenkeyless in ISO... Nice looking thingy...
/sign

We need something like that with ISO layout!

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Brian8bit

21 Oct 2011, 13:56

Just use ANSI.

Tarkoon

21 Oct 2011, 14:34

Do you think people from ANSI-using countries would like being "forced" to use ISO layout?

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Brian8bit

21 Oct 2011, 15:25

You're hardly "forced". It's a personal decision not to use it for some inexplicable reason. All it does is limit the choice of boards you can have. I'm from the UK and made the decision to use ANSI. It was a painless transition. Switching between ISO and ANSI is not a problem. The only difficulty for particular ISO users would be from regions that have ridiculous amounts of moonrunes that would not be supported.

And when the board is a compact layout and/or a non-standard 104/105 key layout, the reluctance NOT to use ANSI is even more baffling.

Also note that I said I dislike the layout of this board. But that's down to the size of the keys for the arrow cluster area. My OCD would prefer them all to be the same size as the pg up and pg down keys.

Tarkoon

21 Oct 2011, 18:57

As from UK you still have all letters from your language on a ANSI-US keyboard...
But if a german guy like me for example wants to find all german letters on a keyboard, we can't use these ANSI keyboards.
An ultracompact ANSI with blank keys would be ok for me, but most blank caps don't fit at these boards.
And the combination with backlight is the end of everything...
This is why I wrote "forced" and still dream of a good ISO ultracompact keyboard - and why not one with backlight like the vortex?

richie

21 Oct 2011, 19:08

is one of the function layers a keypad? anyone know?

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lal

21 Oct 2011, 23:19

Tarkoon wrote:As from UK you still have all letters from your language on a ANSI-US keyboard...
But if a german guy like me for example wants to find all german letters on a keyboard, we can't use these ANSI keyboards.
Just in case you don't know - you can type all the German special characters (äöü߀¢) with the US international layout. No problem.

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yakill

22 Oct 2011, 00:57

Of course you can write those letters, but there is no dedicated key for ä ö ü, and ß is missing
Also you have to change out Y and Z, without this writing is imo a pain in the a...
I'm using custom us layout with exchanged z/y and little changes on the Ctrl + alt + 'key' layer, for example Ctrl+alt+s = ß

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lal

22 Oct 2011, 01:43

US *international* does ß with AltGr-s by default. Umlauts are on different AltGr combinations, too, although I prefer dead keys and type them with dead double quote followed by a, o or u. Either way it's more work than dedicated keys, true, but not impossible. And it works out of the box on Windows and Unix.

Tarkoon

22 Oct 2011, 11:05

Of course you "can" write them, but when I have a keyboard with labeled caps, I want to see the correct letters on them!
And they should be where I'm used to find them...

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Brian8bit

22 Oct 2011, 12:58

That's your unwillingness to adapt that is the problem. Not a problem with ANSI.

Tarkoon

22 Oct 2011, 13:26

Would you like to have your keyboard labeled with for example Ä, Ö or some other strange letters you don't need in your language and miss a T or B?
It seems to me that it's not possible to understand that, when you are not in that situation yourself...
And you are not in our situation:
US Ansi labeled keyboards show all letters you need - nothing is missing...
So please stop complaining about our wish for ISO keyboards!

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sixty
Gasbag Guru

22 Oct 2011, 13:45

I am German myself, but I type on the ANSI US layout since well over a decade by now. To me, it clearly is superior in any way possible, but I do understand the longing for an ISO layout.

To give a realistic response: Yes, of course ISO is possible, and German legends or any other language legends would be possible... but! Vortex is a small company and mechanical keyboards are a niche market. Realistically speaking, the demand for ISO and specific kind of legends is insanely small in comparison to the ANSI US layout. They are unlikely to happen, and much less likely to happen at launch of a new product.

ANSI US covers about 80% of the market out there - including most of Asia, the US and a fair amount of Europe. Realistically there is no need for a small company to ever make ISO layouts for a niche market. The cost involved in this are quite high (redesign PCB, extra stabilizers, at least one extra switch, and tons of new keycap variants).

That said, I voiced the request before and a ISO layout Poker may or may not happen at some time in the future.

Tarkoon

22 Oct 2011, 14:59

And because the vortex keyboard will be backlit, i think there will also be no blank version, am I right?
(just as information, I use an ANSI keyboard too by now (here at home), but I would love to return to ISO, I personally don't like the compromise)

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Brian8bit

22 Oct 2011, 15:06

Tarkoon wrote:Would you like to have your keyboard labeled with for example Ä, Ö or some other strange letters you don't need in your language and miss a T or B?
It seems to me that it's not possible to understand that, when you are not in that situation yourself...
And you are not in our situation:
US Ansi labeled keyboards show all letters you need - nothing is missing...
So please stop complaining about our wish for ISO keyboards!
If a keyboard I wanted only came with moonrunes and a different layout, I would adapt to using it. If it was missing letters I needed, I would use software to get them (key mapping). If it lacked functionality I needed, I would use software to get it (more key mapping). If it didn't have the legends I wanted, I would get new keycaps with the legends I required. It's perfectly possible for me to understand that. So please stop complaining about ANSI. It's your problem that you're choosing to make because you are unwilling to adapt to it.

"OH MY GOD! WHY DID THEY MAKE THIS CAR RIGHT HAND DRIVE/LEFT HAND DRIVE?! I CANNOT DRIVE ON THE RIGHT/LEFT! OH GOD! AND IT'S AN AUTOMATIC/MANUAL! AND THE SPEEDOMETER READS IN MPH/KPH! IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME TO ADAPT! THIS CAR IS USELESS!".

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kbdfr
The Tiproman

22 Oct 2011, 16:53

Brian8bit wrote:That's your unwillingness to adapt that is the problem. Not a problem with ANSI.
Well, I don't know why one should adapt to machines instead of having machines to adapt to one's wishes.

I learned typing long, long ago on a mechanical typewriter. Then I adapted to an electric typewriter where carriage return still was manual. Then I adapted a to a typewriter with a spherical printhead instead of levers and without a carriage. Then I adapted to a typewriter with double pitch (10 and 12). Then I adapted to a daisy-wheel typewriter which did not print a line until it was completed. Then I adapted to a dedicated word processing machine. Then I adapted to a computer, using WordPerfect. Then I adapted to MS Word (I had to). And every time, I had to adapt to new keyboard layouts with new functions on new keys or added to the existing ones. And since I mostly type in French but live in Germany, I first learned typing on a German keyboard and then switched to French layout (I am now proficient on both).

I would call myself an adept of adaptation :D

There are two things I never wanted to adapt to, though: function keys on top of the alphanumerical pad - and ANSI layout. Not that I would not be able to cope with them, but for my purposes function keys on the left of the alphanumerical pad and ISO layout are just the best choice. Function keys on the left because all shortcuts using them can be pressed just with one hand intuitively and without having to look (try that with Alt+F9 on your keyboard), and ISO because I type fast and often have to hit the Enter key from a position when my fingers are not back on the home row yet but still higher, making an Enter key extending upon two rows the better choice.

Other arguments against ANSI: the missing key the position of which is occupied by the long left Shift key, and the most important argument in my eyes: the silly shape of the key above the Enter key, which is bigger not because its use justifies it, but just because there is room to fill.
I always wonder how people can spend such a lot on keyboards because of their "awesome" looks without objecting to such a design abomination :o

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Brian8bit

22 Oct 2011, 17:11

kbdfr wrote:Other arguments against ANSI: the missing key the position of which is occupied by the long left Shift key
Do you mean the pipe and forward slash key? I much prefer where it is on ANSI layout, above the enter key. I think the only key I miss from the ISO position is the hash # symbol. As I use it a lot for coding.
kbdfr wrote:and the most important argument in my eyes: the silly shape of the key above the Enter key, which is bigger not because its use justifies it, but just because there is room to fill.
Regardless of layout, there's always going to be a key that is a stupid shape to fill space. On ISO keyboards it's the huge enter key :D

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webwit
Wild Duck

22 Oct 2011, 17:14

All keyboards except the Datahand are design abominations, because the design of these computer input devices was dictated by a standard which grew out of antique machines made to put letters on paper. It's a bunch of character buttons slapped together at the front of the machine, surrounded by various control buttons. Shape, size, spacing and layout were dictated by the size of the machine, number of characters and technical implementation of the machine.

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Brian8bit

22 Oct 2011, 17:17

You should really move to a direct neural interface device.

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kbdfr
The Tiproman

22 Oct 2011, 17:50

Brian8bit wrote:
kbdfr wrote:Other arguments against ANSI: the missing key the position of which is occupied by the long left Shift key
Do you mean the pipe and forward slash key? I much prefer where it is on ANSI layout, above the enter key. I think the only key I miss from the ISO position is the hash # symbol. As I use it a lot for coding.
"pipe and forward slash"? I don't even remember when I used one of those characters for the last time (like most keyboard users, I just type plain texts, no "coding"). But on ANSI keyboards, they are on the biggest character key of all - now that really IS silly.
Brian8bit wrote:
kbdfr wrote:and the most important argument in my eyes: the silly shape of the key above the Enter key, which is bigger not because its use justifies it, but just because there is room to fill.
Regardless of layout, there's always going to be a key that is a stupid shape to fill space. On ISO keyboards it's the huge enter key :D
And of course, the Enter key is a "non-character" key. Most of the "non-character" keys have another size or shape than plain character keys: Tab, Caps, CapsLock, often Backspace, Enter (both ANSI and ISO, of course), Alt and Control. The only "character" key whose size is justified by its function is the Space key, which is one of the most used keys of the keyboard and is to be hit by either thumb.
Last edited by kbdfr on 22 Oct 2011, 21:03, edited 1 time in total.

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