Modern Beamspring? - The Silo Beam Switch

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JP!

19 Apr 2019, 01:05


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depletedvespene

19 Apr 2019, 01:19

Full-size ANSI for now only. I gotta wonder how difficult or easy coming up with new PCB designs that support ISO/BAE/TIE , or differing layouts (TKL, 75%, 60%, 79%, battleships and larger still, numpads, etc.) will be once this first prototype is out..

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//gainsborough
ALPSの日常

19 Apr 2019, 01:39

that's kinda neat!

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XMIT
[ XMIT ]

19 Apr 2019, 03:34

Oh, good, this is public now.

I've already commented on the board itself. It incorporates about 90% of the feedback from the XMIT Hall Effect boards. I wouldn't do analog sense but HaaTa has wanted to do it for ages.

The switch as you see is made by Kaihua. The story here is that at CES in 2018 I brought along a Beam spring sampler and happened to show it to the CEO of Kaihua. The folks at I:C made sure he got some NOS Beam spring switches. That CEO is something of a switch junkie (surprise!) and was optimistic about being able to incorporate something like it into something modern.

With some effort these could be made into retrofits for existing XMIT boards. Though, I can't promise the actuation would be at the right place.

I do wonder if Kaihua will make Beam spring contact-based switches.

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ZedTheMan

19 Apr 2019, 04:56

Oh wow. This came out of nowhere for me.

I'm finally going to need to get on the hall effect train, it seems.

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Elrick

19 Apr 2019, 12:50

Beamsprings for the REST of us.

Now this is becoming a a proper switch which should gain full support as time progresses.

Sick and tired of seeing $2000-5000USD various keyboard models for sale on Ebay. Just hope this new Beam Spring doesn't follow the very same price guide line as well.

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Elrick

19 Apr 2019, 12:52

ZedTheMan wrote:
19 Apr 2019, 04:56
I'm finally going to need to get on the hall effect train, it seems.
Don't worry, you'll love this 'Train' far more than any other input device out there ;) .

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abrahamstechnology

19 Apr 2019, 22:00

What would make or break this is open-source Hall Effect firmware.

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HaaTa
Master Kiibohd Hunter

21 Apr 2019, 20:34

Elrick wrote:
19 Apr 2019, 12:50
Beamsprings for the REST of us.

Now this is becoming a a proper switch which should gain full support as time progresses.

Sick and tired of seeing $2000-5000USD various keyboard models for sale on Ebay. Just hope this new Beam Spring doesn't follow the very same price guide line as well.
We're trying to target a $100 price point, so :mrgreen:
abrahamstechnology wrote:
19 Apr 2019, 22:00
What would make or break this is open-source Hall Effect firmware.
We'll be making the switches available and around when the keyboard launches we'll also have a reference design so people can design custom keyboards. It'll be based around atsam4s (ARM Cortex-M4).

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abrahamstechnology

22 Apr 2019, 03:57

Great! Hopefully the design could also be used to revive all of the old HE keyboards collecting dust.

Slom

22 Apr 2019, 23:02

abrahamstechnology wrote:
22 Apr 2019, 03:57
Great! Hopefully the design could also be used to revive all of the old HE keyboards collecting dust.
If you are talking about the Micro Switch HE switches: this wont help. The MS switches are digital switches, even though HE is a sensing method that is capable of analog sensing. They have some circuitry in the sensor that converts the analog HE signal to a digital output.

Getting back on topic, couple things I'm pondering ...
- first the peak force seems to be much higher than with IBM beamspring (60g vs 45g), total force 200 vs 140
- force seems to go down again before the actual click (at 1.3), with IBM BS it constantly rising until the click

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Scarpia

23 Apr 2019, 17:25

Exciting!!! And thanks XMIT for sharing a bit of background too - I love the thought of the Kaihua CEO excitedly clicking a beamspring switch tester between his fingers and getting proper nerdy with you at CES.

Also, I can’t imagine a world where I would NOT buy one of these, although I’d probably hold off for a TKL model. At a $100 price point it seems like these boards are targeting not just enthusiasts, but every Fortnite-playing 12-year-old could be getting one of these for Christmas! ...Which would be great, because it would reward Kaihua for taking a big risk on something like this, and maybe they’ll come out of it with an increased appetite for innovation.

Lbibass

23 Apr 2019, 18:09

Scarpia wrote:
23 Apr 2019, 17:25
Exciting!!! And thanks XMIT for sharing a bit of background too - I love the thought of the Kaihua CEO excitedly clicking a beamspring switch tester between his fingers and getting proper nerdy with you at CES.

Also, I can’t imagine a world where I would NOT buy one of these, although I’d probably hold off for a TKL model. At a $100 price point it seems like these boards are targeting not just enthusiasts, but every Fortnite-playing 12-year-old could be getting one of these for Christmas! ...Which would be great, because it would reward Kaihua for taking a big risk on something like this, and maybe they’ll come out of it with an increased appetite for innovation.
Yeah, it would be incredible if KaiHua created a tactile leaf, like Alps SKCM/SKBM, for their switches. They've done a clickbar, why not a leaf? So long as it isn't a mantis foot leaf, I would be very excited. Heck, I am sure that they could pull off a decent SKBM clone, or at the very least Gateron could. Kaihua seems to be more open to innovation though. As of right now, Gateron seems to just be cloning MX designs and changing the plastics used.

nickg

23 Apr 2019, 19:23

IS... is it happening? :O the beamspring remake ive been wanting. When do pre-order go up? And will it be full sized only or can I get my tkl fix? I plan to get one them the other if possible, cant wait to see how they compare to the beamspring I've got sitting on my desk at home, though I do still hope some madman remakes the giant ones with giant cases. dat white whale 6850 board is still my favorite to look at. but man between this and the modern model f i couldnt be happier keyboard-wise right now!

nickg

23 Apr 2019, 19:28

Scarpia wrote:
23 Apr 2019, 17:25


Also, I can’t imagine a world where I would NOT buy one of these, although I’d probably hold off for a TKL model. At a $100 price point it seems like these boards are targeting not just enthusiasts, but every Fortnite-playing 12-year-old could be getting one of these for Christmas! ...Which would be great, because it would reward Kaihua for taking a big risk on something like this, and maybe they’ll come out of it with an increased appetite for innovation.
I'm just saying... if these are out by christmas im getting myself a full and tlk version, and my gf and little brother whichever they prefer. both love my beamspring and model f/m boards and are already buckling spring freaks like myself(each owning at least one) .

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Dingster

23 Apr 2019, 19:51

Any chances for a non backlit version? Dont really mind it myself, but having the option would be nice :)

samuelcable

23 Apr 2019, 19:56

Dingster wrote:
23 Apr 2019, 19:51
Any chances for a non backlit version? Dont really mind it myself, but having the option would be nice :)
It's really unfortunate that kailh would go with a transparent housing like this. Transparent housings instantly ruin the sound of switches

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Wintermute1974
Tessier-Ashpool S.A.

23 Apr 2019, 20:02

HaaTa wrote:
21 Apr 2019, 20:34
We'll be making the switches available and around when the keyboard launches we'll also have a reference design so people can design custom keyboards. It'll be based around atsam4s (ARM Cortex-M4).
If the ANSI board is a success, would you consider making an ISO board later on?

Congratulations on the project. A modern-day beamspring is exactly what the world needs. The prototype in the YouTube video sounds really good and the force curves look promising.

nickg

23 Apr 2019, 20:52

Dingster wrote:
23 Apr 2019, 19:51
Any chances for a non backlit version? Dont really mind it myself, but having the option would be nice :)
a white case option(like hhkb has) would be cool too. more retro looking for a beamspring switch

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Dingster

23 Apr 2019, 21:01

Wintermute1974 wrote:
23 Apr 2019, 20:02
HaaTa wrote:
21 Apr 2019, 20:34
We'll be making the switches available and around when the keyboard launches we'll also have a reference design so people can design custom keyboards. It'll be based around atsam4s (ARM Cortex-M4).
If the ANSI board is a success, would you consider making an ISO board later on?

Congratulations on the project. A modern-day beamspring is exactly what the world needs. The prototype in the YouTube video sounds really good and the force curves look promising.
+1 here for ISO 8-)

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hypkx
Chasing the Dream

23 Apr 2019, 23:07

The only thing I am currently excited for, ISO would be nice and a 60% a dream.

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FXT
XT

24 Apr 2019, 00:29

$100 or less? Sign me up! Can't wait for this and my MT3 susuwatari keycaps.

squizzler

24 Apr 2019, 17:56

I am puzzled why they compromise their design with legacy constraints like the Cherry body pattern and stem design, when the latter is identified as making the unit taller than it needs to be. It appears to be an admission that the keycap tail is wagging the dog and resulting in a lesser design.

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zslane

24 Apr 2019, 19:43

I echo the request for white (or off-white) cases as an option.

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adamcobabe

24 Apr 2019, 19:47

squizzler wrote:
24 Apr 2019, 17:56
I am puzzled why they compromise their design with legacy constraints like the Cherry body pattern and stem design, when the latter is identified as making the unit taller than it needs to be. It appears to be an admission that the keycap tail is wagging the dog and resulting in a lesser design.
You're curious why they want it to work with cherry mount keycaps?!

Findecanor

24 Apr 2019, 21:26

samuelcable wrote:
23 Apr 2019, 19:56
Dingster wrote:
23 Apr 2019, 19:51
Any chances for a non backlit version? Dont really mind it myself, but having the option would be nice :)
It's really unfortunate that kailh would go with a transparent housing like this. Transparent housings instantly ruin the sound of switches
Maybe you got it, but for those who didn't: It's about the type of plastic. Transparent housings are not made in the types of plastic that have the least amount of friction ... or other characteristics apparently.

squizzler

25 Apr 2019, 12:21

adamcobabe wrote:
24 Apr 2019, 19:47
squizzler wrote:
24 Apr 2019, 17:56
I am puzzled why they compromise their design with legacy constraints like the Cherry body pattern and stem design, when the latter is identified as making the unit taller than it needs to be. It appears to be an admission that the keycap tail is wagging the dog and resulting in a lesser design.
You're curious why they want it to work with cherry mount keycaps?!
There must be more appropriate established designs they could have used.

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St0ckz

25 Apr 2019, 13:01

squizzler wrote:
25 Apr 2019, 12:21
adamcobabe wrote:
24 Apr 2019, 19:47
squizzler wrote:
24 Apr 2019, 17:56
I am puzzled why they compromise their design with legacy constraints like the Cherry body pattern and stem design, when the latter is identified as making the unit taller than it needs to be. It appears to be an admission that the keycap tail is wagging the dog and resulting in a lesser design.
You're curious why they want it to work with cherry mount keycaps?!
There must be more appropriate established designs they could have used.
Cherry MX caps are in constant production and are easy to get basically everywhere.

squizzler

25 Apr 2019, 14:41

Scarpia wrote:
23 Apr 2019, 17:25
Exciting!!! And thanks XMIT for sharing a bit of background too - I love the thought of the Kaihua CEO excitedly clicking a beamspring switch tester between his fingers and getting proper nerdy with you at CES.

Also, I can’t imagine a world where I would NOT buy one of these, although I’d probably hold off for a TKL model. At a $100 price point it seems like these boards are targeting not just enthusiasts, but every Fortnite-playing 12-year-old could be getting one of these for Christmas! ...Which would be great, because it would reward Kaihua for taking a big risk on something like this, and maybe they’ll come out of it with an increased appetite for innovation.
I am a little confused about the stated price. If $100 is meant to be the complete board it seems implausibly low. Or it is designed to hit a headline price point, which does not make sense because I assume the discerning people who want a new beam spring keyboard would be prepared to pay a premium price for a high quality product.

nickg

25 Apr 2019, 18:01

squizzler wrote:
25 Apr 2019, 14:41
Scarpia wrote:
23 Apr 2019, 17:25
Exciting!!! And thanks XMIT for sharing a bit of background too - I love the thought of the Kaihua CEO excitedly clicking a beamspring switch tester between his fingers and getting proper nerdy with you at CES.

Also, I can’t imagine a world where I would NOT buy one of these, although I’d probably hold off for a TKL model. At a $100 price point it seems like these boards are targeting not just enthusiasts, but every Fortnite-playing 12-year-old could be getting one of these for Christmas! ...Which would be great, because it would reward Kaihua for taking a big risk on something like this, and maybe they’ll come out of it with an increased appetite for innovation.
I am a little confused about the stated price. If $100 is meant to be the complete board it seems implausibly low. Or it is designed to hit a headline price point, which does not make sense because I assume <b>the discerning people who want a new beam spring keyboard would be prepared to pay a premium price for a high quality product.</b>
This is true, for a full sized beamspring with numpad to the left side I'd probably pay a few hundred. If it were a full re-creation of the ibm beamspring id pay even more. but i do understand mass market appeal is a thing, however topre has no problems selling between $200-$300 so i guess thats a point.

ether way im getting one of these, doubt it'll replace my ibm beamspring but being a halleffect hybrid it'll let me get close without wearing out my 6850 beamspring as fast.

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