Matias hints at new switch

User avatar
webwit
Wild Duck

12 Dec 2013, 02:18

Matias wrote:Nice to see that Cherry is paying attention to what others are doing. :)

We have a pretty big announcement coming next month. I think they'll have a harder time copying this one.
See here:
http://deskthority.net/post137694.html#p137694

Discuss. Guess. Dream. Please, no wagering!

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Halverson

12 Dec 2013, 02:22

Oh my! Have to have another keyboard meet up at Matias. Find out all their secrets! :D

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Muirium
µ

12 Dec 2013, 02:24

Modular buckling spring! With MX compatible caps…
Image

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bhtooefr

12 Dec 2013, 03:00

Well, if Matias is on a reviving old keyswitches streak... buckling spring is still in production, so I'm gonna go with beam spring. It's something that Cherry can't copy because it doesn't really work as a discrete switch (so only a keyboard manufacturer could do it - Cherry could, yes, but they seem to not want to push the state of the art on keyboards, note that Corsair got the MX RGB), it's actually not THAT horribly complex, and it's quite decent.

(Mind you, if you design the carrier plate right, it COULD actually work as a discrete switch with less assembly costs... hmm...)

On a more serious note, though, whatever it is...

Image

User avatar
webwit
Wild Duck

12 Dec 2013, 03:07

My guess is that it is simply some improvement on the current Alps style switch. NKRO without diodes! Or clicky with improved hysteresis, beating MX Blue. Multiple LED if I'm cynical. I don't know.

Findecanor

12 Dec 2013, 09:33

I'm guessing a modified case that actually has room for a surface-mounted LED, so that the LED can be mounted on the PCB under the switch instead of on the opposite side of the PCB shining through a hole.

On the other hand, it wouldn't have to be a new switch - it could be a new keyboard ... or maybe a partnership with another company.

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Muirium
µ

12 Dec 2013, 10:26

If that company is Topre, boy, I am all ears.

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bhtooefr

12 Dec 2013, 11:11

Findecanor wrote:I'm guessing a modified case that actually has room for a surface-mounted LED, so that the LED can be mounted on the PCB under the switch instead of on the opposite side of the PCB shining through a hole.
But that would be copying Cherry, not something that Cherry couldn't copy.

Findecanor

12 Dec 2013, 17:10

bhtooefr wrote:But that would be copying Cherry, not something that Cherry couldn't copy.
Matias did not write "couldn't". He wrote "harder". ;)

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Muirium
µ

12 Dec 2013, 17:17

A great many things are harder than switching to clear plastic. Like having a different coloured slider on your clicky versus quiet switch!

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kint

12 Dec 2013, 17:31

nowhere he said switch. From his profile:
Matias
Beiträge: 43
Registriert: 18 Jun 2012, 17:55
Haupt-Tastatur: Matias Tactile One Keyboard
Haupt-Maus: Prototype Matias Mouse
Lieblings-Schalter: Matias Orange
i suspect a rodent with dampened clickiness ;)

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Muirium
µ

12 Dec 2013, 17:36

Great catch!

Matias Omrons…?

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jdcarpe

12 Dec 2013, 18:49

Could it be the new 60% Alps keyboard that Matias will be doing a group buy for? The interest check for that is coming in January...

Source: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=505 ... msg1125667

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Daniel Beardsmore

12 Dec 2013, 18:57

"Lieblings-Schalter: Matias Orange" … ORLY? Does that mean they've found an orange dye that works, or that he's forgotten to alter that entry since the time when the quiet switches actually were orange? (I've discovered recently that Alps SKCM Salmon, Orange and Black were all contemporary, so presumably they intentionally differ in spec. I just don't know how, yet, other than that orange seems to be lighter. Around 1991, Orange and Salmon were discontinued, leaving just Black for a few years.)

How about Matias Lock? (I'd love to see an AK-LK, the Himake latching action switch — no longer sold, and Xiang Min never responded to my enquiry about the one they imply they sell. Not sure what happened to AK-LK, as Focus preferred Futaba latching switches over Alps and Himake despite requiring custom keycaps.)

Being more realistic, I still want to see the full range of options:
  • Light linear (Cherry MX red equivalent — opens the door to the gamer market)
  • Light linear damped
  • Medium linear (Alps SKCL Green replacement/Cherry MX Black replacement, also great for gamers)
  • Medium linear damped
  • Click (as sold now)
  • Click damped (Fujitsu Peerless/Acer equivalent)
  • Tactile (Alps SKCM Orange replacement — this is the one I want now, as I'm envious of ABS M1 owners with their fearsome clackity boards, which are sadly ANSI only)
  • Tactile damped (as sold now)
All of them being properly Matias-branded, although that horse has bolted now. And an end to the stupid term "quiet click", as they do not click. "Quiet click" can be correctly applied to the damped click switch — I would love something like a Peerless that has that very delicate click, but without Fujitsu's shoddy stabilisers.

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matt3o
-[°_°]-

12 Dec 2013, 19:10

I hope they improve the clickies, because as of now they are desperately boring.

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webwit
Wild Duck

12 Dec 2013, 20:32

A low-profile mechanical switch.

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bhtooefr

12 Dec 2013, 20:39

jdcarpe wrote:Could it be the new 60% Alps keyboard that Matias will be doing a group buy for? The interest check for that is coming in January...

Source: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=505 ... msg1125667
Wait, they're talking about arrows being in the main layer, on a 60%, with a big right shift?

I bet they did what I wanted to do, which is borrow from Apple's history.

This is relevant to my interests. My current favorite switch in what's probably the 60% layout that I think is best?

And, I really don't find the Matias clicks boring.

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Muirium
µ

12 Dec 2013, 20:55

A full matrix of feel (click, tactile, linear) versus damping (yes or no) is a pretty ambitious idea. I'd like to try damped clicky Matiaiæ too. Or damped linear. But aren't we forgetting about spring weight?
webwit wrote:A low-profile mechanical switch.
Who uses ML switches nowadays? (I honestly don't know. They seem fair, given their size, but any switch at all is going to be too thick for a modern laptop.)
bhtooefr wrote: I bet they did what I wanted to do, which is borrow from Apple's history.
Horizontal arrows?
Image
Not my favourite.

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bhtooefr

12 Dec 2013, 21:04

Muirium wrote:
webwit wrote:A low-profile mechanical switch.
Who uses ML switches nowadays? (I honestly don't know. They seem fair, given their size, but any switch at all is going to be too thick for a modern laptop.)
Eh, I think there's ways to do it with magnetics, especially if you restrict to 2 mm travel like many laptop boards are now doing. And, scissor over metal dome is always an option.
Muirium wrote:
bhtooefr wrote: I bet they did what I wanted to do, which is borrow from Apple's history.
Horizontal arrows?
<snip image>
Not my favourite.
Yep. (And, I never realized that that board had .25 U cut off. Earlier Apple 60% layouts had .5 U cut off, but that compromised ISO layouts by requiring part of enter to be .75 U wide.)

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matt3o
-[°_°]-

12 Dec 2013, 21:11

unfortunately Matias keyboards suffer of a rather low build quality...

edit:

quoting Matias
Yes, it will have no bezel or internal USB support — just a 3mm thick side case — and it will have a lower profile than your typical tenkeyless. A lot of those cases are bigger than they need to be. It will be much different from anything you've seen from us before.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=214 ... msg1153072

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Muirium
µ

12 Dec 2013, 21:19

Vintage Apple keyboard arcana time!

My one and only pre-USB Apple keyboard is a UK layout Apple Keyboard II. My favourite thing about it is that it's ANSI. Made in Ireland, with UK legends, but on a US layout.

Meanwhile, further back, Apple was up to exactly the opposite:
Image
ISO US? The silly buggers…

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matt3o
-[°_°]-

12 Dec 2013, 21:24

I actually love ANSI keyboards with ISO enter :)

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Muirium
µ

12 Dec 2013, 21:29

ANSI's symmetry is what works for me. I can excuse a 1.25 unit left Shift (the one sensible thing about ISO and how it actually gets its extra key) but that Return, ugh, I avoid it whenever possible. It's the wrong shape and takes up the spot where Back Space / Delete should be.

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bhtooefr

12 Dec 2013, 23:17

That's not ISO US, that's big-ass Enter (AT) US.

ISO US is the XT layout.

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Muirium
µ

12 Dec 2013, 23:20

Ah, big-ass on-a-diet Enter, with a super sized Back Space (which is usually a slender 1u wide when above a big-ass). Two active threads about Return key nomenclature, aren't we having fun today!

http://deskthority.net/deskthority-wiki ... t7073.html

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scottc

12 Dec 2013, 23:22

Isn't big-ass generally slightly wider in the upper section?

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Muirium
µ

12 Dec 2013, 23:27

It is indeed. But Apple keyboards just love to chop off half a unit (or so?) from the right edge. They're still at it today, even on ISO.
Image
Daniel's "anorexic-ass" Return.

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scottc

12 Dec 2013, 23:45

Sorry Muirium, looks like you snuck in when I was writing my message and posted it before me, so I hadn't noticed! Anyway, I guess this is mostly pedantic. Apple just love making things as thin as possible.

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Muirium
µ

12 Dec 2013, 23:49

Defining "thin" since 1984…
Image
Note the skinny ISO Return (those are quite irritating to type on, I can tell you) despite the chunky eighties body!

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scottc

12 Dec 2013, 23:58

Typical Apple, eh? :D

Back on-topic: I can only assume that it is a beamspring the size of the aluminium Apple keyboard that weighs 4kg while on your desk but is conveniently light when you want to bring it in your bag with your laptop.

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