Filco Majestouch 2 Tenkeyless

User avatar
The Solutor

29 Aug 2011, 11:43

Sugoi wrote: Please, explain in detail why people who don't mind printed caps even though they are fully aware of the differences between double-shots and printed ones are ignorant in your opinion.
So I have to explain *in detail* ( :lol: ) what ?

Where are those people happy with the default keycaps?

Who knows the difference looks for something better, with very few exceptions, who don't know is ignorant by definition, being this the meaning of the word.

In short filcos are average boards sold at premium price, tho consider them premium products you have to take in account the hidden cost of the new keycaps.

ripster

29 Aug 2011, 21:07

The Solutor wrote:
webwit wrote:I already covered this in the review.

The review is perfect.

I wouldn't believe him. I've NEVER heard The Solutor say that unless it was the forum administrator.

TIL that joh means "dude" in Dutch. At least according to Google Translate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgbXGqEF ... r_embedded

"nice dude wasd keys and esc"
Last edited by ripster on 30 Aug 2011, 02:52, edited 1 time in total.

N8N

30 Aug 2011, 02:26

The Solutor wrote:
Sugoi wrote: Please, explain in detail why people who don't mind printed caps even though they are fully aware of the differences between double-shots and printed ones are ignorant in your opinion.
So I have to explain *in detail* ( :lol: ) what ?

Where are those people happy with the default keycaps?

Who knows the difference looks for something better, with very few exceptions, who don't know is ignorant by definition, being this the meaning of the word.

In short filcos are average boards sold at premium price, tho consider them premium products you have to take in account the hidden cost of the new keycaps.
Filcos are "average?" At least here in the US, your only options for a mechanical keyboard through normal channels are Filco, Leopold, WASD, Rosewill, Razer. All of which will likely have to be mail ordered, unless you have much better stores near you than I do.

Compared to all the keyboards on the shelf at your average computer sellin' emporium, I'd argue that *all* are premium products. That said, I haven't tried Leopold, Rosewill, or Razer, but I like my Filco. I like my WASD better, but on the flip side the case design of the Filco is more attractive, for what that's worth. If we're just talking keycaps, I would argue that the standard Cherry corp laser infilled are pretty damn good compared to everything else, although doubleshots do have a certain cachet. (but they're ABS whereas the lasered ones are PBT...)

Slag Filco all you want, but just imagine being given the choice between typing on a Filco and typing on a typical rubber dome from your local Best Buy... I dunno about you, but I'll take the Filco, thanks.

User avatar
The Solutor

30 Aug 2011, 02:42

Filcos are "average?"
Compared to all the keyboards on the shelf at your average computer sellin' emporium, I'd argue that *all* are premium products. That said, I haven't tried Leopold, Rosewill, or Razer, but I like my Filco. I like my WASD better, but on the flip side the case design of the Filco is more attractive, for what that's worth. If we're just talking keycaps, I would argue that the standard Cherry corp laser infilled are pretty damn good compared to everything else, although doubleshots do have a certain cachet. (but they're ABS whereas the lasered ones are PBT...)
You replied to yourself.

itlnstln

30 Aug 2011, 14:44

Without getting into the vintage realm, about the only "premium" keyboards on the market right now are Topres. Everything else is just "above average." It will continue to stay this way, particularly for Cherry-based 'boards, until someone can get the entire package right from case to caps. There are a few Cherry-based keyboards that get close, but none deliver on everything. Even the Typenow Solid has cheap caps but asks a very premium price.

The Korean custom 'boards get there, but those aren't off-the-shelf.

N8N

30 Aug 2011, 16:17

Well, if caps are a big concern, I have to say that I think Cherry does Cherry switch keycaps best. My biggest quibble with most Cherry switch boards is that the keycaps are higher than they need to be, exacerbating any wobble in the keyswitch mechanism. the Cherry caps are lower in profile than most and as a result make for a better feeling board.

I was pleasantly surprised by the Noppoo board that I got recently; the keycaps appear to be Cherry profile or close to it. Felt nice too, and no ping. Now if they could just make a board with clears...

I was similarly impressed with WASD, but they use Filco profile keycaps, so the keys feel a little more wobbly compared to my other boards. And, like everyone else, no clears...

Guess I'll just keep on keepin' on with the board that I'm typing on now... Filco M2 with clears and Cherry Corp. doubleshots. Feels pretty premium to me. Sadly, unless you buy this exact board, or one from someone else who has done some modding, you can't get one.

itlnstln

30 Aug 2011, 16:28

I was surprised, too, with the Noppoo. Printing aside, the caps are beastly and the feel is nice. The stabilizers are rattly and it's ugly as sin, but it's a surprisingly nice keyboard.

ripster

30 Aug 2011, 16:34

WASD keys are the same plastic/mold as Filcos. Different lettering technique.

N8N

30 Aug 2011, 16:47

yeah, I like the color scheme of the Noppoo but it has that typical not-quite-right kerning and inconsistent font size that you sometimes see with products made by people who didn't grow up using the Latin alphabet. You can't quite put your finger on what's wrong until you really look at it closely, but I agree, the final effect comes off as not quite polished.

The stabilizers are standard Costar, a little white lithium fixed that right up.

User avatar
Sugoi

31 Aug 2011, 02:24

The Solutor wrote: So I have to explain *in detail* ( :lol: ) what ?
What's up? Can't back your statement in a proper way?
And no, you don't have to. I was just asking.
Where are those people happy with the default keycaps?
Well, I'm one of those in case you didn't notice. And I do know some others. But of course I also know people who are not happy with the printed caps like you. Anyways, fortunately all of those I know are way more tolerant as for this matter than a individual around here calling those who are happy with printed caps "ignorant"...

ripster

31 Aug 2011, 05:36

Pad Printed and Coated keys are remarkably durable (if you don't have long fingernails). And Filcos are actually pretty medium in thickness and weight.

itlnstln

31 Aug 2011, 14:04

ripster wrote:And Filcos are actually pretty medium in thickness and weight.
This is sad. True, but sad.

N8N

31 Aug 2011, 15:28

Actually I do have evil fingernails. I keep them trimmed, but even so, I wear big divots in a couple keys if I keep the same keyboard long enough (especially the shift keys) I'm hell on socks, too.

is there any particular reason why the Cherry doubleshots are ABS rather than PBT? Would seem like the latter would be preferable, is there an issue with shrinkage after molding or something?

User avatar
The Solutor

31 Aug 2011, 15:50

Sugoi wrote:But of course I also know people who are not happy with the printed caps like you.

It's so hard to understand that it isn't matter of happiness ?

It's matter of relation between the premium price, and the quality provided.

If you buy a Ferrari you don't want the Semperito tires, no matter if they are "good enough".
Anyways, fortunately all of those I know are way more tolerant as for this matter than a individual around here calling those who are happy with printed caps "ignorant"
You should check the meaning of the word "ingnorant" on the dictionary, if you mind that calling someone ignorant is lack of tolerance.

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CeeSA

31 Aug 2011, 16:06

The Solutor is absolutely right.

The keycaps with their (bad) printing are a real product shortage. This product would like to be upperclass with an "upperclass" price. I don't get the problem why this company isn't able to produce keycaps with long lasting printing.
IMO it can only act to measure a profit maximization.

ripster

31 Aug 2011, 17:52

It does last long. Just have to trim your fingernails and wash your hands once a month. Plus doesn't stain like laser infill is prone to do.

Looks better too.
Image

itlnstln

31 Aug 2011, 18:20

Something tells me that the Filco caps may have degraded in quality over time as it seems there have been more reports of letter wear and such. The 'boards I had a couple of years ago, and I'm sure Ripster's too, had quality printing. Sure, they went shiny quickly, but the printing lasted. Again, we would need to compare caps of different vintages and so some scientific testing to be sure.

Filco insists they use their caps because it provides a better feel (hence "Majestouch") compared to caps of other manufacturing methods (different plastics, etc.). I call bullshit, but YMMV.

ripster

31 Aug 2011, 19:06

It's like ping. The keys are actually BETTER according to Elitekeyboards they got a thicker coating.

It's just you have lots more OCN and Geekhack mechanical keyboard noobs.

Like The Solutor.

itlnstln

31 Aug 2011, 19:14

Cool. Thanks for the clarification.

User avatar
The Solutor

31 Aug 2011, 19:19

Clarification ? :shock:

When the Filco fanboysm matters, every single word written by Ripster is meant to confuse the ideas to the users.

itlnstln

31 Aug 2011, 19:22

The Solutor wrote:Clarification ? :shock:

When the Filco fanboysm matters, every single word written by Ripster is meant to confuse the ideas to the users.
Not quite. See, there was this time a couple of years ago when this guy named Welly... nevermind.

Nuance and text don't mix very well. Laugh a little.

User avatar
The Solutor

31 Aug 2011, 19:40

itlnstln wrote: Not quite. See, there was this time a couple of years ago when this guy named Welly...

The only infos I have about Welly came from Ripster, to i take them cum grano salis, the only thread I saw is the one were he was talking about the Filco Zero, and again there was Ripster involved to negate the evidence, like what happen with the filco keycaps and ringing boards...

itlnstln

31 Aug 2011, 19:53

Welly did a bunch of stuff that involved taking apart the 'board and "damaging" certain parts. He then tried to get a refund from Elitekeyboards and was denied. Aside from that, there was a long, drawn-out argument where Welly kept trying to say that Filcos' lettering rubs off on a consistent basis when there was only one known case on one key where this occurred. The whole time, we were talking about how bad the keycaps were for going shiny in about a couple of weeks (nothing about the lettering, mind you), but he kept saying Ripster and I were fanboys. Sometime later, Ripster did an experiment on key cap durability and proved that unless you have a defective cap, the printing is durable and should last a long time (I think it's in the "All About Keys" wiki at GH).

Whew. That's the short story. The ability to separate serious arguments and tongue-in-cheek posts aside, ripster has a lot of great insight into keyboards. He and I don't agree on everything, but I certainly respect the work he's put in. More importantly, though, he's good people.

User avatar
The Solutor

31 Aug 2011, 20:15

itlnstln wrote:Welly did a bunch of stuff that involved taking apart the 'board and "damaging" certain parts. He then tried to get a refund from Elitekeyboards and was denied.

That was what ripster told.
Aside from that, there was a long, drawn-out argument where Welly kept trying to say that Filcos' lettering rubs off on a consistent basis when there was only one known case on one key where this occurred. The whole time, we were talking about how bad the keycaps were for going shiny in about a couple of weeks


So, basically he was telling the truth.

My tenkeyless ha the spacebar already shiny after three weeks, well not completely shiny, but noticeable less matte.

No other keyboard I own is getting shiny after months of usage

itlnstln wrote: Whew. That's the short story. The ability to separate serious arguments and tongue-in-cheek posts aside, ripster has a lot of great insight into keyboards. He and I don't agree on everything, but I certainly respect the work he's put in. More importantly, though, he's good people.
Skill in something is nice, and no one has ever negated the ripster's efforts.

But the honesty is an appreciable unman behavior too.

At least he keep most of the fanboysm out of the wiki section, and this is a good thing.
Last edited by The Solutor on 31 Aug 2011, 20:27, edited 1 time in total.

itlnstln

31 Aug 2011, 20:25

The Solutor wrote: So, basically he was telling the truth.

My tenkeyless ha the spacebar already shiny after three weeks, well not completely shiny, but noticeable less matte.

No other keyboard I own is getting shiny after months of usage
You're right, the keys go shiny, and that's what Ripster and I were saying. What Welly was saying was that the lettering comes off, too, which was wrong.

User avatar
The Solutor

31 Aug 2011, 20:35

itlnstln wrote: You're right, the keys go shiny, and that's what Ripster and I were saying. What Welly was saying was that the lettering comes off, too, which was wrong.

Which is true, maybe not in two weeks, but surely faster than the average 2.50€ RD keyboard.
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itlnstln

31 Aug 2011, 20:38

Damn, dude. Do you sweat battery acid? It took about that much in Ripster's experiment to have the lettering come off.

I see you treat your premium keyboards well. You may want to mix in a Lysol wipe every now and then.

User avatar
The Solutor

31 Aug 2011, 20:46

itlnstln wrote:Damn, dude. Do you sweat battery acid? It took about that much in Ripster's experiment to have the lettering come off.

I see you treat your premium keyboards well. You may want to mix in a Lysol wipe every now and then.

It's not my filco (obviously i don't mind to use it).

It's just a board used in the real world, without rotating it with other nine keyboards like the average GH user is used to.

itlnstln

31 Aug 2011, 20:49

I used mine daily (at work) for over year with no issues. That's why I'm wondering if there was a change in how they make caps. Depending on who used the keyboard, if there was someone that loves to use hand lotion, that may have been a problem. Hand lotion, for whatever reason, seems to be highly corrosive as well as make up.

ripster

31 Aug 2011, 20:51

See, that pic is copy pasta'd from my Wiki.

I guess that's Step One. Reading my Wikis to gain understanding. But The Solutor has no idea the circumstances of how that keyboard was treated and is oblivious to nuance.

I don't censor good or bad. Just Keyboard Science.

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