Realforce R2 PFU Limited Edition

User avatar
Hypersphere

18 Jan 2019, 18:55

The Realforce TKL R2 PFU Limited Edition Black US ANSI layout keyboard with 45g Topre switches has all the bells and whistles, including actuation point control (APC), NKRO, silencing, and a host of functions accessed by Fn key combinations.

At first, I was perplexed, because the package-insert manual consisted of a single sheet of paper with all of the instructions in Japanese only. This left me with almost no idea of how to access the various functions.

However, I soon found that the RF website has a product support page with download links for a catalog/spec sheet in English, driver software (Windows only), and a PDF of the software manual in English.

Here are my initial impressions, Pro and Con:

PRO:

+ Compact form factor.
+ Attractive stealthy look.
+ Very quiet, but retaining the clip-clop on clay "thock" sound that is a hallmark of Topre switches.
+ Subtle Topre tactility. Excellent typing feel.

CON:

- Not completely programmable. Every modern keyboard ought to be completely programmable using non-proprietary software such as TMK or QMK.
- Attached cable. I prefer a detachable cable.
- Hardwired Fn key. I prefer no function key or one that can be remapped.
- Functions that I find useless or that I would prefer to assign myself.
- Case apparently snaps together rather than being held together with screws, although there appears to be a hidden screw underneath the label on the bottom of the case. I prefer a straightforward way of opening a keyboard case without worrying about damaging snap tabs or having to remove a seal that violates the warranty.
- The black-on-black legends might look sophisticated, but the printing is essentially invisible in low-light conditions. I would prefer blank keycaps or keycaps with visible legends, at least for the alphanumeric keys.
- Despite the excellent silencing, there is still some stabilizer rattle on the larger stabilized keys, such as Backspace, Enter/Return, Left and Right Shift, and the Spacebar. It also appears that the stabilizers cannot be lubricated without dismantling the keyboard.

INDIFFERENT:

~ APC. I suppose this will appeal to some, but I would be okay with the default middle setting. However, as long as this feature exists, it is good that it can be accessed easily via Fn + Up-arrow.

~ Embedded NumPad. Somewhat good to know it is there, but I doubt that I would ever use it. Moreover, some of the embedded NumPad keys interfere with my HHKB-style of remapping.

~ Silencing mats. The box also contains two rubber mats in different thicknesses that can be installed on the plate by first removing the keycaps. This will provide even more silencing at the expense of some key travel. The keyboard is already one of the quietest I have used. I doubt I would have any use for the rubber mats.

OTHER:

When slowly pressing keys to test weight and tactility, the 45g switches initially felt too light and lacking in tactility. However, when actually typing, the weight and tactility feel just right. At first, I thought I would regret not opting for an all-55g model, but now that I am typing on it, I think 45g is the best choice. The variable-weight model would not work for me, as the 30g switches would be too light.

As soon as I can determine how to open the case without breaking it, I would like to install a panel-mount USB connector for a detachable cable and investigate the possibility of installing an internal Hasu USB-USB converter to make the keyboard completely programmable (except probably the hardwired Fn key).

However, the first change I have made is to replace the alphanumeric keycaps with caps that have visible legends. To me, black-on-black is not useful. The keys ought to be either blank or equipped with visible legends. However, I do like dark keyboard cases and dark modifier keys, which is why I bought the black version. I already had several sets of Topre caps with visible legends ready to install (see picture).

rfr2af.jpg
rfr2af.jpg (1.32 MiB) Viewed 1492 times
OVERALL:

The RF TKL R2 special PFU edition is solidly built, and the silenced all-45g Topre switches provide an excellent typing experience. Although I could install silencing rings myself, considering the cost of the rings and the time and effort spent in dismantling the keyboard in order to install them, the built-in silencing on the PFU special edition model is worth the extra $100 or so.

After setting up the RF R2 PFU TKL board with an external Hasu USB-USB converter and installing blue alphanumeric keycaps with visible legends, white HHKB keycaps to demarcate the cursor diamond, and some red keycaps on the top row, the keyboard is gaining favor in my eyes (see picture).

Before buying the RF, I had been typing on a Leading Edge DC-2014 with SKCM blue Alps switches. Now, after typing on the RF, the DC-2014 seems crude by comparison. I also have a Tokyo60 with Zilent switches that I had once said were Topre-like. The Zilents are perhaps even quieter than the silenced Topre switches in the RF, but the RF is definitely more elegant and refined. There is also something sure-footed about typing on the RF. I feel less prone to making typos than I do on Alps, Cherry, or Cherry clone boards, and the Topre switches in the RF are not subject to the twitchiness I have often encountered with Alps, such as missed keypresses or chattering.

Overall, I give the Realforce a solid 4 out of 5 stars. It would be 5 stars if it had a detachable cable, complete programmability, 60% form factor, and a wider selection of keycap styles, perhaps as boxed sets that could be purchased separately and installed by the customer.

Regarding the 60% form factor, I would urge Realforce and PFU to collaborate on a new version of the HHKB. This would be a 60% fully programmable model built like the RF, with Topre switches mounted in a steel plate instead of case-mounted switches as found in the HHKB. Moreover, they should consider reducing the size of all of the stabilized keys -- including the spacebar -- in order to eliminate the need for stabilizers, thus banishing all traces of stabilizer rattle once and for all.

User avatar
matt3o
-[°_°]-

18 Jan 2019, 19:10

Hypersphere wrote:
18 Jan 2019, 18:55
At first, I thought I would regret not opting for an all-55g model, but now that I am typing on it, I think 45g is the best choice.
wait... is a full 55g available?!

also if they feel too light, you can deepen the actuation point just a tad, that actually helps!

PS: nice review!

User avatar
Hypersphere

18 Jan 2019, 19:48

Thanks, matt3o!

FYI, in case anyone is wondering about potentially redundant posts, I decided to delete my original comments on this keyboard in two other threads and post a review in the review section instead. I've also posted a similar review on the Amazon site, which is where I bought the keyboard.

Yes, an all-55g version of the RF R2 is available, but it is not the PFU limited edition. As I understand it, only the PFU limited edition has built-in silencing, and this edition is available only in all-45g switches.

Thanks for the tip about adjusting the perceived weight by using the APC feature. However, now that I have been typing on the keyboard for a few days, I find that the 45g weight is perfect for me. I have two of the previous versions of RF87UB keyboards, one in all-45 and another in all-55g. At first, I thought I preferred the all-55g, but ultimately, I settled on the all-45g as my preferred version. The 55g version intially feels great because it feels so definitively heavy and tactile, but this gets tiresome (as well as tiring) after a while.

I had a similar experience with my HHKB Pro 2 boards. I modded one by installing 55g domes from an RF. Once again, intially I liked the heavier weight, but later I chose the standard 45g as my favorite.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

18 Jan 2019, 22:01

I wouldn’t delete things: it’s just confusing.

Can’t remember whether I commented on this before, but if I did I assume it was to welcome you to the club of “45g was right all along!”

Have you tried Hasu’s controller in your HHKB? Mine is so much better with his replacement hardware inside. First for Bluetooth, and second for ditching the needless power hog of a usb hub. But I’ve also come to value its programmability, as even the ideal little HHKB layout can learn a few expert tricks.

Tias

18 Jan 2019, 22:14

A well written and a very thorough review :) Made me consider upgrading to the R2 TKL from my 88U.
Hypersphere wrote:
18 Jan 2019, 18:55
~ Silencing mats. The box also contains two rubber mats in different thicknesses that can be installed on the plate by first removing the keycaps. This will provide even more silencing at the expense of some key travel.
Have you tested the board with the silencing mats installed? If they even further silence the keyboard without altering the keyfeel to much they seem like a nice addition to a already silent board.

As you mention they of course reduce the travel a bit, but do they greatly affect the keyfeel when bottoming out? In other words, do they make the keyfeel feel mushy? As they are made of some sort of rubber they should at least be somewhat stiffer and less mushy than for example foam landing pads.

I really like my 88UB, but if I would modify it in some way it would be to silence it further. Hence the question regarding the silenced R2 TKL.

Also like your choice of color combinations, I have something similar my 88UB on which I use white HHKB keycaps on the alphas :)

User avatar
Hypersphere

18 Jan 2019, 22:36

@Muirium: Sorry -- I've already deleted the material in the other posts, but I replaced this with a brief note and a link to the review. I didn't want to violate some rule about redundant posts or to hog space.

Yes, I did see your comment about 45g. I wanted to underscore this preference, as it might help those who are undecided about Topre switch weights and reassure others who might feel the need to go for the macho weight when the standard 45g is quite acceptable.

No, I haven't tried Hasu's HHKB controller. I don't use BT, and I haven't seen the need to any reprogramming of the HHKB beyond what is available in the DIP switch settings.

Speaking of Hasu converters, as mentioned in the review, I am using an external Hasu USB-USB converter with my new RF R2 keyboard. Moreover, I have several hubs and switches connected in series:

KVM switch --> USB hub 1--> Hasu USB-USB converter --> USB Hub2 --> USB Hub 3--> Computers

The keyboard is connected to USB Hub 2. All the hubs are powered.

Miraculously, this works. One might wonder why I have so many hubs. My setup is rather complicated, and there are actually good reasons for having all these components (at least, I have justified everything to myself!). I have three computers connected to the KVM switch, one running Windows 10 and the other two running Linux (Linux Mint 19.1 Xfce, 64-bit.

The only glitch I've encountered is that when I reboot a computer, I need to unplug and replug the Hasu converter from USB hub1 in order to get the keyboard to be recognized.

Otherwise, the system works well. For example, I can use the KVM to switch among the 3 computers and/or I can use Synergy software to share the keyboard and mouse without hardware switching using the KVM, and the keyboard is always recognized.

BTW, I don't use the video function of the KVM switch. It's an Iogear 4-port DVI-capable switch with audio switching. I use it to share the keyboard, mouse, audio, and USB peripherals such as a scanner.

The official line from the RF site is that converters are not supported, and while hubs might work, they are not recommended. However, the Hasu USB-USB converter and several hubs in series are working for me.

This reminds me -- in the tech specs from RF, there is an item, "USB-HUB Function". The spec for this entry says "Available". I do not know what this means. I have sent a message to RF. If I get a reply, I will post here.

User avatar
Hypersphere

18 Jan 2019, 22:56

@Tias: Thanks for the kind words. I haven't actually tried the rubber mats that came with the RF R2 board. They didn't look like a good idea to me when I had all the keycaps removed, and now that I've got the keycaps that I like installed, I don't plan to remove them again anytime soon.

I have some version 1 RF87U boards that I've silenced with my own "Hypersphere silencing rings" along with lubing the switches using Super Lube 51010 synthetic oil and lubing the stabilizers using Super Lube 21010 synthetic grease. Although this procedure entails opening up the keyboard and all the switches, I would recommend the rings and lube over the rubber mats. I predict that the end result with rings and lube will be far superior to using rubber mats.

Note that only the PFU Limited Edition boards are factory-silenced. The standard models, which are about $100 cheaper, do not have silencing. For those models, I would still recommend installing silencing rings and lubing the switches and stabilizers. For those not wishing to lube each switch, I would recommend at least lubing the stabilizers using a grease such as Super Lube 21010.

Thanks for saying you liked the color scheme of my keycaps on the RF. I know that some might think it's garish, but I like this scheme. I am very glad that I invested in some genuine Topre keycap sets some time ago. It appears that these are no longer available. I know that Muirium has recommended the caps being sold by KBDfans -- I have not yet tried these to see how they compare with genuine Topre caps.

It also appears that I managed to get one of the last RF R2 PFU TKL Black boards that were available through Amazon. The notice on the Amazon site says "We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock." I would like to get a second RF for work; the current one is in my home office. My favorite is TKL black, but they still have full-size white and black in stock and one remaining white TKL in stock. I could gamble on the one I want being available again, or I could go ahead and get another that was not my favorite color or form factor.

User avatar
Hypersphere

18 Jan 2019, 23:47

Hypersphere wrote:
18 Jan 2019, 22:36

<snip>

... in the tech specs from RF, there is an item, "USB-HUB Function". The spec for this entry says "Available". I do not know what this means. I have sent a message to RF. If I get a reply, I will post here.
Pardon the doublepost, but I got a reply already from PFU tech support about the "USB-HUB Function Available" in the tech specs.

They said this simply means that the RF will work with a Hub, but it is still not recommended. They suggest connecting the keyboard directly to the computer.

This would be very inconvenient with my setup, so I am glad that the RF works even with a Hasu USB-USB converter and several hubs in series.

vinzbe

18 Jan 2019, 23:58

You can get the same same features as the PFU edition with all weighting variants (variable, 30g, 45g, 55g) with white, black, black with grey/blue keycaps color schemes distributed by Leopold. Some models were already distributed by Leopold while the equivalent PFU ones were only revealed.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

19 Jan 2019, 01:39

So, how would someone outside Korea go about getting those?

My interest is more academic—especially for referring other people—than personal. My heart belongs to HHKB.

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AdrianMan

19 Jan 2019, 10:08

Very nice review :)

I have a FC660c and stock + silencing rings + lubed sliders + lubed stabilizers really feels great.

I'm having an obsession about wobble and despite the stock FC660c having an acceptable ammount of keycap /slider wobble, I was baffeld when I've put my FC660c next to a friends Novatouch and observed how tighter and less wobble the Novatouch sliders have.

I ended up swapping the sliders + stabilizers with Novatouch ones + lube everything and I like it more than stock because :
*very low wobble - I love it
*Smooth & feel - 90% feel as stock on 1u's

Cons: stabilized keys even lubed are just a tad les smooth and feel different than lubed stock. Not bad, just less refined.

Ok so back on topic, I wanted to ask:

Is the Realforce R2 slider wobble decreased vs the previous version? Did they do any upgrades there?

User avatar
Hypersphere

19 Jan 2019, 15:12

@AdrianMan: Regarding wobble, I didn't notice this on the RF R2. I just now pulled my old RF off the shelf to compare. The old one is an EliteKeyboards special edition with all-45g switches, on which I had installed silencing rings and lubed the slider rails and stabilzers. The only key on the old RF that has what I would consider objectionable wobble is the lower left-hand key that is a default left Ctrl key. Otherwise, my perception is that the old and new RF boards feel and sound about the same. However, I have never been very sensitive to wobble -- I even like typing on a KBP V60 with Matias Click switches!

Tias

19 Jan 2019, 16:03

Hypersphere wrote:
18 Jan 2019, 22:56
I have some version 1 RF87U boards that I've silenced with my own "Hypersphere silencing rings" along with lubing the switches using Super Lube 51010 synthetic oil and lubing the stabilizers using Super Lube 21010 synthetic grease. Although this procedure entails opening up the keyboard and all the switches, I would recommend the rings and lube over the rubber mats. I predict that the end result with rings and lube will be far superior to using rubber mats.
I actually like the bottoming out sound and feel on my unmodified 88UB, and I have a feeling that installing a rubber mat like the one included with the RF R2 would probably make it more silent, but also ruin the feeling. Going with the mentioned silencing rings + lube modification seems like the best way to go.

I have a Novatouch which is lubed and outfitted with Hypersphere rings, and its a joy to type on. I however bought it already modified so I have no experience modifying Topre boards, but I would at some point like to make my 88U a little more silent by installing silencing rings and lubing the switches. The 88U is my work board, and although its rather quiet, I would like it to be a little more quiet. Isolating it from the desk with some cheapo PE-foam has at least made it somewhat more silent.

Btw the colorscheme of the keycaps on you RF R2 is kinda reminicent of GMK Yuri with the cold white/blue alfas paired with dark grey modifiers :)

User avatar
Hypersphere

19 Jan 2019, 17:10

While I had my old and R2 RF TKL boards side by side on my desk, I decided to take their measurements. I was somewhat surprised to find that the R2 board is actually slightly wider than the older version. Here are the measurements in the crazy US units of "inches":

RF87U: 6.65 x 14.41 x 1.54

R2 TKL: 5.60 x 14.50 x 1.20

User avatar
AdrianMan

19 Jan 2019, 21:54

Hypersphere wrote:
19 Jan 2019, 17:10
While I had my old and R2 RF TKL boards side by side on my desk, I decided to take their measurements. I was somewhat surprised to find that the R2 board is actually slightly wider than the older version. Here are the measurements in the crazy US units of "inches":

RF87U: 6.65 x 14.41 x 1.54

R2 TKL: 5.60 x 14.50 x 1.20
Nice, could you also place your fingers on the keycaps side by side and check the wobble ?

:D thanks

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Hypersphere

19 Jan 2019, 23:06

I guess there is some wobble when rocking the caps side to side. It seems about the same on the old and new RF boards, except for the lower left modifier on the old board where the wobble is greatest. As you might expect, wobble is more pronounced on the wide keys that are not stabilized. It would probably be good to devise a way to quantify this so that wobble could be objectively measured and compared from one keyboard to another.

However, I do not mind this sort of wobble, as it does not seem to contribute to key clatter or to interfere with typing (at least for me). A test I use for clatter is to brush a fingertip along each row. Silenced Topre switches are very quiet in the brush test, whereas Matias Click switches are extermely noisy in this test (as well as when typing).

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cookie

20 Jan 2019, 01:48

Hypersphere wrote:
18 Jan 2019, 18:55
Overall, I give the Realforce a solid 4 out of 5 stars. It would be 5 stars if it had a detachable cable, complete programmability, 60% form factor, and a wider selection of keycap styles, perhaps as boxed sets that could be purchased separately and installed by the customer.
Nice review! I had to giggle at this one though. It sounds like "I give the Realforce a solid 4 out 5. It would be 5 stars if it were an entirely different keyboard" :D

I'd also love to see a new product increment of the HHKB with "better" materials but I really don't know how to feel about a metal backplate. I was playing around with a Realforce 87U with variable weights a while back and I didn't like the backplate too much, the HHKB felt a bit smoother to me. I think the best comparison would be a Leopold FC660c, I'd consider one if the layout were different :)

Cheers mate!

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AdrianMan

20 Jan 2019, 03:32

Hypersphere wrote:
19 Jan 2019, 23:06
I guess there is some wobble when rocking the caps side to side. It seems about the same on the old and new RF boards, except for the lower left modifier on the old board where the wobble is greatest.......
Thanks a lot for your answer.

It really seems as a great keyboard and the silent version ticks many Pro's.

I think they would get some extra cash & fans if they offered keycap sets alternatives, even it they were the colors&typew allready used on their keyboards.

User avatar
Hypersphere

20 Jan 2019, 15:08

cookie wrote:
20 Jan 2019, 01:48
Hypersphere wrote:
18 Jan 2019, 18:55
Overall, I give the Realforce a solid 4 out of 5 stars. It would be 5 stars if it had a detachable cable, complete programmability, 60% form factor, and a wider selection of keycap styles, perhaps as boxed sets that could be purchased separately and installed by the customer.
Nice review! I had to giggle at this one though. It sounds like "I give the Realforce a solid 4 out 5. It would be 5 stars if it were an entirely different keyboard" :D

I'd also love to see a new product increment of the HHKB with "better" materials but I really don't know how to feel about a metal backplate. I was playing around with a Realforce 87U with variable weights a while back and I didn't like the backplate too much, the HHKB felt a bit smoother to me. I think the best comparison would be a Leopold FC660c, I'd consider one if the layout were different :)

Cheers mate!
You have recognized the irony in my recommendation! This was with the hope that someone at RF reads our reviews.

I am undecided about what I would like to see in an updated HHKB. When I am typing on the RF, I appreciate the solid sound and feel, but the unyielding metal plate can be stressful on the tendons after a long typing session (and I wish that the RF had a 60% version). When I am typing on the HHKB, I appreciate the resilience of the case-mounted switches (but I am aware that the HHKB feels "plasticky" compared to the RF).

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Muirium
µ

20 Jan 2019, 16:18

I’m as sure that someone there is reading our foreign opinions as I am the name of their company is RF…

I had heard a rumour, from let’s say an Aussie birdy, that Topre was working on Bluetooth for these all new Realforces. I wish that were so. Wired boards aren’t much use with tablets. The usual horrors of cabling to a laptop apply plus with the socket raised up, jutting out of the display, high off the desk! Besides, the 87u’s USB cord is so absurdly long I never feel safe using it anywhere but sling behind my desk. Detachable cables are better, but in this day and age simple Bluetooth is better again.

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cookie

20 Jan 2019, 16:22

@ Hypersphere I totally get what you mean!
Once in a while I get my hands on cherry mx boards with a metal backplate and almost all of them ping and resonate because of the metal backplate.
That's rather off-putting, especially once you got used to something soft like the HHKB, but on the other hand I like metal as material. It feels like it will widhstand abuse better. It's generally a nicer feel.
A neat Idea would be to "decouple" the plate from the housing with something like a rubber/foam/silicone gasket where backplate and top housing meet. Premium material plus charecterestics of a plastic case? That would be awesome!

60% realforce would be a hot thing for me as well, I hope they read that. But I think it's not likely that they will have a layout like the HHKB has.

@Mu Ohh yes please, a RF with battery penis, that's a dream come true! :D

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Muirium
µ

20 Jan 2019, 16:30

cookie wrote:
20 Jan 2019, 16:22
a RF with battery penis
Nah. I find keyboards with internal genitalia much more refined.

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cookie

20 Jan 2019, 16:36

Muirium wrote:
20 Jan 2019, 16:30
cookie wrote:
20 Jan 2019, 16:22
a RF with battery penis
Nah. I find keyboards with internal genitalia much more refined.
I have to agree! Do you use the Hasu BT controller? And how much battery life do you get out of it? I remember that it barely holds a day, is that still tru?

I was thinking about making my Pro1 into a BT version to carry around while traveling, since this board is my daily driver at work.

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Muirium
µ

20 Jan 2019, 16:44

Oh, it’s a lot better than I was led to fear…

viewtopic.php?p=422486#p422486

I put a big battery in mine and it runs for days and days. You do want to switch it off overnight, as it draws power at the same rate whether typing or disconnected. But charging is so easy, it’s nothing to worry about. Even if you do empty the battery, you’ve still got a perfectly functional USB HHKB while you fill it back up!

Then there’s the ability to add your own functions with Hasu’s GUI. I’ve been making use of that, too.

In short: so highly recommended I can’t even consider a stock HHKB anymore myself. Essential.

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cookie

20 Jan 2019, 17:05

Man sounds absolutely amazing, my hhkb pro1 has been through a lot (literally). So now I wan't to turn it into it's final form.
Therefore I was looking for something special and the BT mod came to my mind!

I've checked few sources on the internet but sadly it seems that the pcb is out of stock everywhere :(
Do you know a good place where to find it?

Next question would be if the controller is compatible with the Pro1?

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Hypersphere

20 Jan 2019, 17:20

If RF were to produce a 60% model, I would not be overly disappointed if it didn't have an HHKB layout as long as I could remap the board. It would be good if the board had complete built-in programmability via TMK or QMK, but if not, there is always the Hasu USB-USB converter magic. Just keep the lower right-hand key remappable, please! (Even better if they were to make it with a split Right Shift so that I could put Fn where it belongs).

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Muirium
µ

20 Jan 2019, 17:22

@Cookie:

I ordered mine straight from Hasu himself. He’s here on DT, if you fancy shooting him a PM.

According to the GH thread, the Pro 1 might be a different PCB and may be out of stock:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?PHPSESSI ... ic=71517.0

But I’d ask Hasu. He builds and ships them out directly, so he knows for sure.

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=864

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cookie

20 Jan 2019, 17:28

The split right shift is the true powerhouse of the hhkb layout, I couldn't agree more. Even if they would leave the rest normal, with that fn key and programability the keyboard would really be something! I could stick to my HHKB style without the iconic cut outs on the bottom row but I wouldn't mind if I'd get something like the leopold fc600c but without dedicated arrow keys :)

I have deep respect for Hasus contribution to "free" the HHKB from it's stock layout but to be honest, I got so used to it that it does not affect any of my productivity. And if I need something "special" I am very likely to integrate it myself on a OS level.

@Mu thanks mate, I might shoot him a PM, he seems like a genuinely nice dude!

vinzbe

22 Jan 2019, 01:43

Muirium wrote:
19 Jan 2019, 01:39
So, how would someone outside Korea go about getting those?

My interest is more academic—especially for referring other people—than personal. My heart belongs to HHKB.
You can get it from Harumio. The strange thing is that all models are sold at the same price "to simplify the ordering process and not make customer have a hard time choosing which product". So, I would not buy the basic version of the Realforce R2 from there.

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Hypersphere

22 Jan 2019, 14:51

There is an excellent vendor from Korea on eBay called "Widebasket". From time to time, he has Realforce keyboards and keycap sets for sale. Recently, he has been selling the Leopold version of Realforce boards. His prices are fairly reasonable, and his customer service is excellent. Items are carefully packaged and shipped quickly.

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