F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

[engr]

If y'all move forward with this, my recommendation would be to match Unicomp's own (light) gray as closely as possible.

Yes, that would make sense, the white and grey set on the mini-M looks nice with their black case:

[engr]

[duplicate post deleted]

[genericusername57]

The first batch of new production Round 2 beam modules (now I can assemble and take some photos of the B104 keyboard with the approved/finalized Round 2 case)

Really looking forward to seeing those photos

[Ellipse]

The next NYC Mechanical Keyboard meetup has just been announced and you can now get tickets. They usually sell out quickly so I recommend getting one soon. I just ordered my ticket and will see everyone there!

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/nyc-mechan ... 7184567617

[Ellipse]

Firmware updates:

The first F104 and FSSK boards with the NathanA Vial firmware shipped this week! As noted earlier these will be the default going forward for more and more of the keyboard models.

Some more good news: NathanA's workaround to allow layer sharing between both halves is working; this functionality is built into the new firmware.  I tested it on the production split boards and it is working. 

There are some limitations as detailed in earlier posts from NathanA, especially this one:  viewtopic.php?p=516636#p516636

Layer programming would be normal with this and the base Vial firmware is already preprogrammed for the second layer.  This NathanA firmware will be the one that ships with each board.

The layers are programmed to each board and no additional hardware is needed, so this should meet most folks' requirements.

[AlexB555]

This is the updated version of the BÉPO layout. It's much closer to the "real" Standard (NF Z71-300). The modifier keys are in red. The characters with a red box are diacritic (which is also a modifier key).

The infinite sign (∞) unlocks the APL sub-layout. (∞) + (/) unlock the APL sub-layout (characters APL with a slash).

https://bepo.fr/wiki/Symboles_scientifiques [In French]

The CSA layout was based on ISO 6937 and ISO 8859-1, which is way more limited, both standards are a legacy from the late ’80s. The BÉPO layout was standardized in 2019 and it's based on Unicode. It includes a lot of special characters.

[engr]

deleted

[Ellipse]

Model F Dutch Auction Update:

The F50 and F15 (Model M15-style) split ergonomic boards are now open to forum members at the fully discounted auction finish price of $399 and $499, respectively; anyone interested please PM me. The boards will be on a first come, first served basis. Soon I will open it up to everyone, likely at the non-discounted price, for any remaining boards.

Soon I may open up the other few remaining models of the F Split Ortho since it has been over a week since the payment deadline. Please PM or email me if interested in this one. Some folks mentioned there were some email deliverability issues so I also sent the message by forum PM if they provided their user name in the interest form.

Later this month I will start to mail out all of these 125 keyboards. I also expect to have one spare True Red F50 case (please PM me if interested). As always a big thanks to forum member NathanA for updating all of the firmware to allow all of these new boards (among many others) to be Vial-enabled by default.

[billm]

I have existing layers programmed on my F62 from a couple of years ago but I just installed the solenoid. I may have originally programmed the keyboard on a linux box that is no longer available. I'm now on an M1 mac. I don't remember if I did this with QMK or VIA but I suspect QMK. Anyway, I think I may have re-programmed the right control key to be caps lock and thus don't have a Fn key for the magic keypresses to turn the solenoid off.

EDIT- after many tries I finally got shorting the PROG pads to work

[Ellipse]

Now that auction winners and forum members have had time to finish up, orders are now open to everyone at the same auction finish pricing; no need to reserve your unit. There are not many left of each so please limit yourself to 1 of each (feel free to ask me if you need an exemption or if you are ordering for two). As a note I am reserving one F15 for someone with an important reason that they cannot complete the order this week.

https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product ... n-winners/
https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product ... n-winners/
https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product ... n-winners/

Project prototyping update:
I assembled the F122 prototype with Rico's latest Leyden Jar controller that just arrived recently and noticed some things that I want to change regarding the inner assembly tabs and posts and their alignment with the PCB so I will be requesting another sample of the top and bottom inner assembly plates. We are still waiting on the cases production (as noted earlier the inner assemblies for F104 and FSSK were completely finished a while back and they just need the latest firmware to be loaded and for them to be installed into the cases when they are done). The factory is still hoping to wrap everything up this year but the one constant is that things take longer than expected!

The updated Round 2 B104 beam prototype is coming along nicely and I hope to wrap things up and post some photos next week. The press fit washers make things much easier to set up and maintain compared to the glued metal washer originals.

[Ellipse]

Production update:
The initial batch of 900 F122, F104, and FSSK keyboard cases (300 each) has been completed and is being mailed to the assembly factory which will inspect the cases and then assemble them with the inner assemblies. The first batch just has black color cases, plus some uncoated cases of each type. As noted earlier the F104 and FSSK inner assemblies were completed a while back while the F122 inner assembly was not approved and a new sample has been ordered. Next up will be the batch of all remaining cases. The factory split things for quality control reasons, to make sure everything was being produced according to the requirements.

2023-10-13 new cases (B).jpg (1.58 MiB) Viewed 69214 times

2023-10-13 new cases (A).jpg (788.01 KiB) Viewed 69214 times

[Ellipse]

The latest blog update has just been posted on the project web site:

https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/blog/

Below are a few portions of the update:

Production status for the various projects

For the most frequent day-to-day updates on the various keyboard projects please head over to the mechanical keyboard forums such as Deskthority and geekhack (links can be found above by going to About, Forums/Press). I only post on the blog and send out email newsletters on a more limited basis, to summarize what has been going on.

As I always say, we are at the mercy of the factories for such low volume production, especially around the timeline. It is truly a miracle and a great sign of today’s manufacturing advances that such complicated projects to bring back these great old style keyboards can proceed today given the limited economies of scale and even though production volume is significantly limited compared to most mass market products and we are far from top priority clients for that reason.

Here is the status by keyboard type:

Classic Case F104 and FSSK: inner assemblies are complete, first batch of cases is 900 complete, still need to complete the balance of the cases (see below for additional details).

F122: some errors with the prototype inner assembly plates; I have ordered a new sample of the top and bottom inner assembly plates. I assembled the F122 prototype with Rico’s latest Leyden Jar controller that just arrived recently and noticed some things that I want to change regarding the inner assembly tabs and posts and their alignment with the PCB so I will be requesting another sample of the top and bottom inner assembly plates.

Beam Spring Round 2: The factory is working on the new case tooling. I am working on finishing up a prototype of the Round 2 keyboard with the final production case design and new modules (the Round 2 keyboard had a working prototype a while back, just with an older case design and modules that were changed to be about 1mm taller to allow for the newly introduced top layer of inner foam above the key modules but below the top inner assembly, just like with the IBM beam spring originals). Two of the plastic module parts are currently in mass production (the beam barrel part A and B). The beam flippers finished production some time ago. The two metal parts will be entering production soon (they are retooling the metal part for beam flipper).

Here is a photo showing the assembly process of the second Round 2 B104 sample. The inner assembly is attached upside down to the bottom case so that it does not slip out of place. One can see that the flipper factory improved the color of the flippers – they are more of a deep black color compared to the dark gray color of the originals. There is no functional difference and no one can see this inside of the keyboard, but the black color is closer to the IBM originals.

2023-10-09_18-19-44.jpg (223.09 KiB) Viewed 69166 times

The factory is still looking to wrap things up around year end, which means that the keyboards should start going out early next year. Please keep reading for more details on each of the parts.

Drop-in replacement PCB assemblies now available for F62, F77, compact F104, and compact FSSK

I have a bunch of presoldered controller+ribbon cable+large capacitive PCBs that can serve as drop-in replacements for these keyboards in case they are needed. Anyone who needs one or wants a spare please email me for details. It is always good to have a spare that you don’t have to mess around with desoldering and resoldering.

Beam spring production process

After the sample order was assembled and tested back around the end of July, the updated beam barrels (part A and B) for Round 2 were approved for full production and I placed the order. These took a while to get right but I am glad everything is good now. Production is just about done: the modules are still in production, expected to finish around month end, and then they need to be assembled. The press-fit design is going to be saving a lot of assembly time compared to the older glued on washer design.

I also ordered the capacitive PCBs for all 8 beam spring variants and the F122, as well as the Leyden Jar version 3 controller for testing.

The 8 beam spring variants: B62 Split Shift and Regular Backspace, B62 Split Shift and Split Backspace, BSSK ANSI, BSSK ISO, B104 ANSI, B104 ISO, B122 ANSI, B122 ISO

The factory is also preparing the tooling to bend the aluminum cases. Then they will produce a full working sample keyboard of each design for verification, and then the case and inner assembly plates production can start. Then these need to be assembled and sent out on the container ship. The factory already completed a prototype of the new case and inner assembly design earlier this year and it has no issues, but to be safe I want to confirm that the new tooling makes things right for all the parts.

[Ellipse]

Firmware update:

Rico has released the latest Leyden Jar beta firmware (links below to the firmware and to the PCB). I have tested the firmware with the F122 prototype and everything is working perfectly. As a reminder this controller has the extra 2 columns needed for the F122 and B122.
There was an issue with two keys giving some trouble (the Home key has a higher resting number of 392 compared to ~380 for most others) but it seems to have been resolved after adding in a second bin, replacing the spring, and reseating the key. The firmware has an adjustable bin count (factory default is tentatively set to 2 bins given the unpressed voltage variations). The bins separate the keys into groups based on their unpressed numbers. The downside to more bins is a reduced scanning rate (though I don't think it can be noticed in practice!).

https://github.com/mymakercorner/vial-q ... leyden_jar
https://github.com/mymakercorner/Leyden_Jar

There is also a terrific new utility that Rico has created (screenshot below) that allows signal level monitoring, entering the bootloader, and monitoring keypresses, among other functions and informational displays. Not shown in the screenshot is the device list and its menu with the signal level monitor, keypress monitor, and enter bootloader buttons, which appear when you click the Device List button.

10-16-23 after each key is pressed one at a time2.PNG (52.06 KiB) Viewed 68945 times

[Ordinary Witch]

There is also a terrific new utility that Rico has created (screenshot below)

I'm assuming that program will be made available somewhere later? I can't find it currently in either the qmk/vial firmware tree nor in Rico's own repository on github.

[Ellipse]

Here is a great original IBM 4700 system guide book linked to by sharktastica on another thread:

https://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/4700/GC31 ... 198311.pdf

It includes some photos and expected specifications of the keyboards.

And here is a great thread by Sneaky Robb including original IBM keyboard prototype switches and a comprehensive article on the development of the Model F from Dick Harris:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=28325

Yes confirmed the utility is not yet ready to be shared.

[RedESC]

Here is a great original IBM 4700 system guide book linked to by sharktastica on another thread:

https://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/4700/GC31 ... 198311.pdf

It includes some photos and expected specifications of the keyboards.

And here is a great thread by Sneaky Robb including original IBM keyboard prototype switches and a comprehensive article on the development of the Model F from Dick Harris:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=28325

Yes confirmed the utility is not yet ready to be shared.

Love the look of those transparent switches/keys in the videos, they'd be a great novelty for buckling spring fans.(even just as single modules) Would also be interesting to see somebody have a go at trying to make a backlit buckling spring board with transparent barrels/Keys, not a massive fan of backlighting/transparent keycaps usually myself (MX style switches are kinda boring to look at) but I do enjoy the idea of being able to see the buckling spring mechinism of every switch of a keyboard with some diffuse lighting to make it more visbile.

[Vito300]

Hello, I just put together my new model f77 last night. Can someone tell me where the heck I'm supposed to mount the solenoid driver board? For some reason they completely skip over that part in the video and the manual..

[Ellipse]

The driver board does not need to be mounted, though you can come up with your own mounting ideas (double sided tape, 3d printed solution, etc.).

https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/com ... 2_model_f/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTKwhumwJyk

[Vito300]

The driver board does not need to be mounted, though you can come up with your own mounting ideas (double sided tape, 3d printed solution, etc.).

https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/com ... 2_model_f/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTKwhumwJyk

Ok got it. Thank you for getting back to me so quickly Ellipse. Since I have you here, my spacebar is pretty badly warped in a way that makes it bend upwards on the bottom and it's causing problems with the stabilizer. I had to open the tabs and bend the wire and do everything I could to loosen the spacebar so that it wouldn't get stuck down. It doesn't get stuck anymore, but it still feels sticky? Is there any way you can send me a spacebar that is straight?

[Vito300]

[Ellipse]

Vito300 the bend of the spacebar that you describe is normal. PBT has uneven shrinkage during the injection molding process and that is most noticeable on the largest keycap.

The step by step way to fix a sticking spacebar is described in the manual on the project web site.

[zetaomegagon]

Is there any way you can send me a spacebar that is straight?

Vito300 Ellipse is correct PBT warping, which is exactly why some companies don't use it for longer keys such as the space bar (HHKB...looking at you).

One way to get rid of warping is to repeatedly heat the key in warm water and unbend the warping. YMMV and you'll need to become and expert on the art yourself.

[Vito300]

Is there any way you can send me a spacebar that is straight?

Vito300 Ellipse is correct PBT warping, which is exactly why some companies don't use it for longer keys such as the space bar (HHKB...looking at you).

One way to get rid of warping is to repeatedly heat the key in warm water and unbend the warping. YMMV and you'll need to become and expert on the art yourself.

:/ yeah I know it’s common for larger PBT keycaps to be a little warped. Which I assume is why a lot of older alps boards have yellow ABS space bars and beautiful white PBT keycaps. But, topre did good with their real force spacebars, same for the new HHKB, and IBM figured it out before I was born.

I just thought my space bar was pretty bad, but if you guys say it’s normal then screw it. Maybe I’ll try the hot water and bend method.

[thefarside]

Here is a great original IBM 4700 system guide book linked to by sharktastica on another thread:

https://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/4700/GC31 ... 198311.pdf

It includes some photos and expected specifications of the keyboards.

Thanks for sharing ellipse! It’s a large document with over 200 pages so I thought I’d share the highlights.

One pic shows an F62 that looks like it has a silver label IBM logo. I wonder if they originally were planned to have them:

IMG_9234.jpeg (353.72 KiB) Viewed 68460 times

I also noticed an F62 with an XT-style layout including the large spacebar:

IMG_9235.jpeg (329.43 KiB) Viewed 68460 times

Keyboard specs:

IMG_9236.jpeg (125.82 KiB) Viewed 68460 times

IMG_9237.jpeg (150.59 KiB) Viewed 68460 times

IMG_9238.jpeg (177.32 KiB) Viewed 68460 times

IMG_9239.jpeg (196.66 KiB) Viewed 68460 times

[zetaomegagon]

Is there any way you can send me a spacebar that is straight?

Vito300 Ellipse is correct PBT warping, which is exactly why some companies don't use it for longer keys such as the space bar (HHKB...looking at you).

One way to get rid of warping is to repeatedly heat the key in warm water and unbend the warping. YMMV and you'll need to become and expert on the art yourself.

:/ yeah I know it’s common for larger PBT keycaps to be a little warped. Which I assume is why a lot of older alps boards have yellow ABS space bars and beautiful white PBT keycaps. But, topre did good with their real force spacebars, same for the new HHKB, and IBM figured it out before I was born.

I just thought my space bar was pretty bad, but if you guys say it’s normal then screw it. Maybe I’ll try the hot water and bend method.

Well I can't really tell from your pic how bad the warping is, and I've been rocking a short spacebar which may have had less chance of warping, so I wouldn't consider my opinion on the subject authoritative at all.

[Vito300]

Vito300 Ellipse is correct PBT warping, which is exactly why some companies don't use it for longer keys such as the space bar (HHKB...looking at you).

One way to get rid of warping is to repeatedly heat the key in warm water and unbend the warping. YMMV and you'll need to become and expert on the art yourself.

:/ yeah I know it’s common for larger PBT keycaps to be a little warped. Which I assume is why a lot of older alps boards have yellow ABS space bars and beautiful white PBT keycaps. But, topre did good with their real force spacebars, same for the new HHKB, and IBM figured it out before I was born.

I just thought my space bar was pretty bad, but if you guys say it’s normal then screw it. Maybe I’ll try the hot water and bend method.

Well I can't really tell from your pic how bad the warping is, and I've been rocking a short spacebar which may have had less chance of warping, so I wouldn't consider my opinion on the subject authoritative at all.

You can see in the picture a little bit if you zoom in, if you look at the gap between the case and the spacebar you will see that the spacebar is warped horizontally about 1.5mm at the end so that it warps away from the case and towards the period key. I've purchased cheaper PBT keysets and I've never seen a spacebar warp that way, usually they are warped so that the spacebar doesn't sit flat on a table and wants to come off the stabs. It's equally annoying, but easier to fix with hot water and bending.

[Ellipse]

thefarside your post is very helpful! It is interesting to see how different the F77 final weight ended up being (7.5 pounds for IBM's F77 compared to the 4.4 pound estimate!). The XT style layout in that photo appears to be a non-functioning mockup? There appears to be no room below the keys for them to be pressed down, most noticeably for the Enter key.

Vito300 I would like to reemphasize that physically attempting to bend a PBT spacebar is not recommended or necessary to fix most spacebar issues with the spacebar getting stuck.

The recommendation is to follow all of the steps in the spacebar section of the manual. Adjusting the bend of the stabilizer wire and metal tabs are the top ways to fix a stuck spacebar. Occasionally the wiggle method will also need to be used.

[depletedvespene]

Confirmed ok to request an update of the BEPO file, please send the update in the next week or so before they go on break if possible.

If anyone wants to make any additional custom layouts or keys, now is the time as the factory will be doing a small batch of the BEPO and CSA after returning from their holiday break. Please email/PM me if interested.

September was a bad month to take a vacation. Is this window still open?

[depletedvespene]

engr it is possible but the minimum order value for everyone would be several thousand dollars.

That doesn't sound too bad if there are a few dozen of people interested. Could you set up an interest form like you did for other customizations? I would be happy to order a couple of white/grey keysets. A black F104 case with white alphas and black mod/function keys (if and when pad printed keys become to fruition) would look really nice.

NGL, I'd be all for it too. Think I asked about it here too. Would be really nice to have a set of these keys in bright white. (Without going for unicomp keys)

Meanwhile, I'd love to have a set made of Ellipse's dark gray keycaps for the modifiers(*) and regular gray keycaps for the alphas.


(*) ISO Enter included. There, I've said it.

[depletedvespene]

… Ellipse "light gray" caps would fix that problem...

Funny you should mention this, because...