[IC] it is coming... SA RETRO!

[matt3o]

Ladies and Gents it is finally coming!

DSA Retro was my first GB (with the restless help of samwisekoi), it was one of the first western organized DSA keycap set and over 450 of you are still enjoying it. I'm promising an SA incarnation since forever and now it is finally the time!

Please welcome SA Retro!

I'm still in the prototyping phase. What I know is that I want it to be sculpted profile, so it won't be all row-3 (but an all row-3 option might be available). I'm exploring various options and before going head down designing the whole thing I'd like an opinion on the following rows profile:



Basically:
- Function keys ROW 3
- Number row ROW 1
- QWE ROW 2
- ASD ROW 3
- ZXC ROW 3
- Bottom row ROW 4

I don't think this has been done before (might be wrong), but since we still don't have shift keys in the right profile it seems a fair enough compromise.

Just as a reminder, this is how the rows look like



Thoughts?

I still don't know how the GB will be distributed. Maybe I can talk with 7bit and work with him, or BunnyLake (both EU based). If nothing else works PMK or MD.

[ramnes]

WANTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

I'm just a bit worried about SA caps quality, at least at SP. All the pics I've seen of Pulse and other SA keysets looked like it was shitty super slippy ABS without any texture.

And I'd prefere R1 function keys.

[noobie94]

New GB from matt3o? Yay - this will be good!

WANTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

I'm just a bit worried about SA caps quality, at least at SP. All the pics I've seen of Pulse and other SA keysets looked like it was shitty super slippy ABS without any texture.

Any users here who have experienced this?

[Muirium]

Thoroughly chocolatey.

I'm not keen on repeated adjacent rows, though. SA's real strength is when you get the full curve from one row of each profile:



Instead of going all flat:



True, the Shift situation isn't great. But I still think row 4 alphas on ZXC is well worth it for look as well as feel:



As for row 1 function row, I'll try that out when Round 5 arrives at last.

[matt3o]

I do not condone the "shift-gate", and I also find the flat bottom row quite wrong.

SA was born as flat family (all row-3). Over the years SP added more rows but we do not have enough curve to fill a keyboard from Function row to spacebar.

Considering the very little difference in shape between row-3 and row-4, I still believe that ASD+ZCX ROW 3 is a good option, but as always, the community decision will be respected.

[7bit]

Ladies and Gents it is finally coming!

DSA Retro was my first GB (with the restless help of samwisekoi), it was one of the first western organized DSA keycap set and over 450 of you are still enjoying it. I'm promising an SA incarnation since forever and now it is finally the time!

only 448 actuallty.

Please welcome SA Retro!

I'm still in the prototyping phase. What I know is that I want it to be sculpted profile, so it won't be all row-3 (but an all row-3 option might be available). I'm exploring various options and before going head down designing the whole thing I'd like an opinion on the following rows profile:

lacks green and brownish red keys of the original DSA/RETRO buy.

Basically:
- Function keys ROW 3
- Number row ROW 1
- QWE ROW 2
- ASD ROW 3
- ZXC ROW 3
- Bottom row ROW 4

Nooooo!!!


make it:
- Function keys ROW 1 (a bit easier to reach the keys)
- Number row ROW 1
- QWE ROW 2
- ASD ROW 3
- ZXC ROW 4 (except for those 2 SHIF T keys)
- Bottom row ROW 3 (easier on the thumbs! Extra points if you make it row 2 )

I don't think this has been done before (might be wrong), but since we still don't have shift keys in the right profile it seems a fair enough compromise.

Just as a reminder, this is how the rows look like



Thoughts?

I still don't know how the GB will be distributed. Maybe I can talk with 7bit and work with him, or BunnyLake (both EU based). If nothing else works PMK or MD.

MD: no.
PMK: Noooo!!!!!
7bit: You mad?! *
BunnyLake: seems to be the only rationale option here


-------------------------------------------------
*) If you let that 7bit guy run this, it will take until 2017 when the keys will be delivered!
------------->

[matt3o]

DCS (or cherry) bottom row is angled more or less like SA Row-4. Why row-3 would be better?

[Muirium]

I knew I'd not be alone in wondering where all the colours went! DSA Retro was a playful design. A chocolate brown keyset is fine, but it's not Retro's Return without green and a splash of red!

Supposedly SA was born as a flat family for tilted stems. (I'd like to see proof, one way or the other. It's complex.) Certainly, to my eyes and fingers it's quite wrong when flat. But it would make sense both ways on a tilted keyboard, like the Honeywell.



I was just fixing up a beamspring earlier, which has wonderful spherical 70s vintage caps. Those are mounted on tilted stems, too, but they have different profiles for every row and are easily my favourite caps of all. Sphericals are a call back to those vintage days, SA and beamspring alike.

Besides, the gold standard looks like this:

[matt3o]

ALL Retro colors will be available (both lime green and plum)!!!!!

The TRUE retro is all brown btw (with gray function row). I'm trying to work on the key profile right now, not the color scheme (that is already done).

Muir, That last picture totally sold it.

ROW: 3, 1, 2, 3, 4, 2.

[7bit]

DCS (or cherry) bottom row is angled more or less like SA Row-4. Why row-3 would be better?

Easier on the thumbs. That was the idea. I think we discussed this and it came out that row 3 is the best compromise. All space bars are row 3 and the SHIF T keys are row 3, so it was row 3 for all of the modifiers etc.

[andrewjoy]

make em PBT

they do look cool tho , need the green mods however all brown is not as nice as the brown / green

[Muirium]

Dyesub PBT is no good for strong colours like this, Andy. I love them both, but doubleshot rules light legends on vivid base colours.


@Matteo: Row 2 bottom row? Interesting idea… SP has the tooling for mods like that? And row 4 SHIF Ts?

The HiPro's spacebar is an oddball, from what I've seen. I'd better ask Zts to compare it to a Realforce's. I reckon it's taller but essentially the same "kicked" shape, compared to the symmetrical ones we're used to on SA.

[7bit]

1 units: all rows available
1.25: row 3 only (but who cares )
1.5: all rows available
1.75: all rowsavailable
2: thanks to Round 5 ( ) all rows available!!
2.25: Thanks to Diatec, only row 3
2.75: Thanks to Diatec, only row 3 (again, who cares )

[matt3o]

we do not have row-4 shift!

so. considering that a bottom row-4 is not liked. The alternatives are:

1) The easy one: 3 - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 3 (wrong shifts)
2) The extravagant: 3 - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 2 (wrong shifts, 1.25u are matte instead of semi-matte)
3) The filco: 2 - 2 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 3 (I actually like this)
4) The filco on steroids: 1 - 1 - 2 - 3 - 3 - 3

1.25: row 3 only (but who cares )

Wrong. Also row 2 and row 4

[Sev]

With th other colors it will look sick! Sadly I don't understand your talk about rows etc. but I can't wait for this set

[Muirium]

How much money will convince them to make 2.25, 2.75 and 1.75u Shifts in row 4?

And how much to recut the SHIF T legend to our satisfaction!

[7bit]

1.25 units: According to the latest version, they only exist in matte finish.


1.75u already exists.


Around $9000, I guess (unless they raised the prices for tools again ...).

[Muirium]

Oh yeah, I forget that row 2 = row 4 rotated. We really need the full set, though. I've been after a HONEY/REPAIR kit of row 4 Shifts since before even placing my Round 5 order a year and some ago!

Nine grand. Hmm…

[matt3o]

1.25 units: According to the latest version, they only exist in matte finish.

you didn't read, did you?

2) The extravagant: 3 - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 2 (wrong shifts, 1.25u are matte instead of semi-matte)

[7bit]

This will look Ugly¡

[ramnes]

True, the Shift situation isn't great. But I still think row 4 alphas on ZXC is well worth it for look as well as feel:

I completely agree on this one.

About colors, yeah, just brown isn't cool. Red + browns is neat, but any other old-school combination would do it. We just need retro SA set. And a PBT SA set would be just awesome... Granite SA ?

[Ascaii]

for inspiration, my old alps caps:

[wlhlm]

Oh, you snatched that ALPS board recently?

[SL89]

You know I'm in!

[SL89]

You know I'm in!

Edit: can the red's and greens of the DSA retro be part of this as well? And maybe some other ancient OS logos besides Commodore! and mayyyybbbeee a ‽ or two‽

Additional edit: Just saw the bit about colors. In my excitement i missed that paragraph. As far as profile goes i like Filco profile but would really like Filco on Steroids!

Last addition i swear: If you can find it in your heart to make this 1800-layout compliant I'm sure you'd get a lot of love for it. If it adds too many keys or whatever then I'd understand.

[matt3o]

I don't think there will be problems covering the G80-1800

[zts]

Dyesub PBT is no good for strong colours like this, Andy. I love them both, but doubleshot rules light legends on vivid base colours.


@Matteo: Row 2 bottom row? Interesting idea… SP has the tooling for mods like that? And row 4 SHIF Ts?

The HiPro's spacebar is an oddball, from what I've seen. I'd better ask Zts to compare it to a Realforce's. I reckon it's taller but essentially the same "kicked" shape, compared to the symmetrical ones we're used to on SA.

The spacebars, hipro and the *standard*, are the same length and the same hight (at their highest point; the hipro looks a bit taller, but is actually the same hight, at 1 cm) and are interchangeable. However there are some differences in their shapes.

Blue is the standard from RF TKL; Dark grey is from HiPro:

sbar1.jpeg (264.04 KiB) Viewed 10188 times

sbar2.jpeg (197.4 KiB) Viewed 10188 times

sbar4.jpeg (142.68 KiB) Viewed 10188 times

sbar5.jpeg (239.99 KiB) Viewed 10188 times

sbar3.jpeg (346.03 KiB) Viewed 10188 times

[Ascaii]

Oh, you snatched that ALPS board recently?

No, these pictures are from late 2012 iirc.

[SL89]

The recent spherical was all brown, wasn't it?

[7bit]

Do you mean these: