F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

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RoastPotatoes

17 Oct 2015, 02:13

Would this be a cheaper option for keycaps? Or is this just for old keycaps?

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Techno Trousers
100,000,000 actuations

17 Oct 2015, 02:13

They definitely look right! I can't wait to hear and see the testing results.

Ellipse

17 Oct 2015, 02:14

Nope no testing yet. I expect to receive the prototypes in a few weeks, then I will fully test them.

Roast - these would be around the same price as a new set, so no it would not be a cheaper option. There is actually more interest than I have IBM keycap sets right now.

Firebolt1914

17 Oct 2015, 18:30

If it's not too late can I get IBM keys with my order?

Ellipse

17 Oct 2015, 20:05

Fire - I expect to do first come first served with the IBM keys once I open up orders hopefully in a few weeks. I just have 5 key sets right now. Hopefully I find more!

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RoastPotatoes

17 Oct 2015, 22:56

I had a go at some packaging design a while ago. I was just thinking of the front of the box and solid colour for the rest or some with a white line. The box of the SSK was the main inspiration. But IBM had some very nice packaging even something like typewriter ribbonslook really nice.
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I'm not sure if these are at all good enough to put forward for a packaging design. But hopefully this could introduce the possibility of someone doing something better.

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Muirium
µ

17 Oct 2015, 23:12

Something more like this:

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ramnes
ПБТ НАВСЕГДА

18 Oct 2015, 01:01

RoastPotatoes, you fourth design is the best to me!

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Techno Trousers
100,000,000 actuations

18 Oct 2015, 01:33

I like the first design the best. The fourth one looks too much like F82 to me.

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romevi

18 Oct 2015, 03:21

First and fourth look the best, but I agree that the angle on the fourth looks a bit illegible. Maybe change the spacing on the "6."

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darkspider

18 Oct 2015, 04:12

The forth looks best for me.

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joc

18 Oct 2015, 04:34

A minimalistic logo design could be an ellipse with a major and minor radius of 77 and 62, respectively, like this: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%2 ... %B2%29%3D1 :ugeek:

unoab

18 Oct 2015, 07:37

The fourth looks the best to me, and I am guessing you used the "men in blue" font to generate that one? I had looked at that font a while ago when box discussions were going on, and it matches the old IBM graphics very well, the only place that it needs some work is on the inter character spacing/kerning. It seems whatever IBM used, the space between each character was about equal to the width of the lines that make up the characters most of the time. I measured the spacing on an model F XT box I had to make sure on that.

Also, my thoughts on box design tended more towards the older XT or AT board boxes (maybe because I had a box sitting off to the side at the time..), so a box looking more like the photos available here: http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cf ... /id/439884
so throw a nice F77 or F62 graphic text on the sides instead of the IBM and then on top have a line art version of the board contained within. I think that would look quite good.

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darkspider

18 Oct 2015, 10:18

I tried to imitate the art on the original AT box.
hmm...
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kishsaver_line_art copy.png
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Muirium
µ

18 Oct 2015, 10:26

Go for a bare line outline, like Topre today and Apple back in the AEK II days. It's handsome, and matches the elegant minimalism of IBM's logo, which we're mimicking in text.

Firebolt1914

18 Oct 2015, 17:57

Just wondering, when will this group buy start?

(I bet it's somewhere in the thread :\)

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RoastPotatoes

18 Oct 2015, 19:26

unoab wrote: The fourth looks the best to me, and I am guessing you used the "men in blue" font to generate that one? I had looked at that font a while ago when box discussions were going on, and it matches the old IBM graphics very well, the only place that it needs some work is on the inter character spacing/kerning. It seems whatever IBM used, the space between each character was about equal to the width of the lines that make up the characters most of the time. I measured the spacing on an model F XT box I had to make sure on that.

Also, my thoughts on box design tended more towards the older XT or AT board boxes (maybe because I had a box sitting off to the side at the time..), so a box looking more like the photos available here: http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cf ... /id/439884
so throw a nice F77 or F62 graphic text on the sides instead of the IBM and then on top have a line art version of the board contained within. I think that would look quite good.
Just checked this is the men in blue font
Moved the spacing about. The 6 is now a little further out.
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Tried the spacing of the lines. It actually is a bit off. Possibly twice the width of the line.
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I have been trying to create a vector I can base the outline image of in the style of the realforce.
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As you can see I have tried to use keyboard layout editor and do a bit of border stuff around it. This is not quite right. I think some custom styles are needed here. The curved corners are also a little off. And I'm not sure if I should give the curves more definition.
I was thinking I could then put it through a filter in photoshop or inkscape (which I am currently using) and get something like this.
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This looks very different on what is rendering it but one issue is the lines are incredibly thin possible just 1px I don't know how to change this as the filter is doing all the work. This is also 500 dpi

I would love to have this font in use somewhere if the outline design was chosen.
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wcass

19 Oct 2015, 00:23

If you want to match the "Personal Computer AT Keyboard" font, look at BodoniIbmTReg (standard and italic).

As these boards are meant to be clones, i would suggest cloning the original packaging as much as possible too.

unoab

19 Oct 2015, 00:51

Looks good, I think the closer spacing feels more IBM-ish. For box graphics I think either option would be good (vector or XT/AT line art style), and since we are not really copying the original style of the boxes for the 50, 62, or 77, which are a little bit bland (http://deskthority.net/photos-f62/ibm-6 ... t8502.html), whatever people prefer would be best.

Though, in the end we still need to know what Ellipse is ok with putting on the box, as I know on GH he said no printed design or logo, but you can tell he is looking at it from a legal angle, so as long as there is nothing infringing on the box it should hopefully receive his blessing.

modology

19 Oct 2015, 02:59

IMHO just ship it into any generic box, who need the cardboard box anyway. It's the keyboard that's matters and I'd prefer Eclipse to spend his time on getting the board out of the factory rather than wasting time on making a box for it.

You know what's better idea? How about someone coming up with some sort of plan to convince Unicomp to produce Black Cap for BS again? For many of those who are going to order F62 in Black, Black keycaps would go extremely well with the board.

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atlas3686

19 Oct 2015, 10:11

modology wrote: IMHO just ship it into any generic box, who need the cardboard box anyway. It's the keyboard that's matters and I'd prefer Eclipse to spend his time on getting the board out of the factory rather than wasting time on making a box for it.

You know what's better idea? How about someone coming up with some sort of plan to convince Unicomp to produce Black Cap for BS again? For many of those who are going to order F62 in Black, Black keycaps would go extremely well with the board.
It's true we desperately need black (ideally blank) keycaps for the F62 in black. I can't believe Unicomp have actually stopped producing them. I wonder if they could be persuaded for a big-ish batch like this.

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snoopy

19 Oct 2015, 11:29

afaik they're only missing one key (right shift?)

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hammelgammler
Vintage

19 Oct 2015, 11:35

Well and the home row keys too right?

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RoastPotatoes

19 Oct 2015, 13:24

unoab wrote: Looks good, I think the closer spacing feels more IBM-ish. For box graphics I think either option would be good (vector or XT/AT line art style), and since we are not really copying the original style of the boxes for the 50, 62, or 77, which are a little bit bland (http://deskthority.net/photos-f62/ibm-6 ... t8502.html), whatever people prefer would be best.

Though, in the end we still need to know what Ellipse is ok with putting on the box, as I know on GH he said no printed design or logo, but you can tell he is looking at it from a legal angle, so as long as there is nothing infringing on the box it should hopefully receive his blessing.
I hadn't seen an original box. I just assumed they were inside a larger box with a terminal. But they do not seem too appealing. The original packaging actually looks a bit like the newer stuff.

Elipse said that it was going to be a plain box. But I got the impression that if the right design came along that suited it then it could be a possibility. I'm not quite sure of the legal situation with this project and if this could become more of an issue if an IBM replica logo was used. I'm not quite sure of the line drawing yet.

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wcass

19 Oct 2015, 14:34

modology wrote: It's true we desperately need black (ideally blank) keycaps for the F62 in black. I can't believe Unicomp have actually stopped producing them. I wonder if they could be persuaded for a big-ish batch like this.
I'll be doing some key cap dying soon and was planning on doing an instructional video. I'll be doing red again, but all colors are pretty easy to do. iDye Poly (available online and in many fabric/craft stores) works much better than anything else i have used. If you want uniform light color, it is best to start with white caps (available from Unicomp). If you are looking for otaku black, you could do that quite easily starting from any color cap.

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atlas3686

19 Oct 2015, 20:49

snoopy wrote: afaik they're only missing one key (right shift?)
Have heard conflicting info, this could be the case. Hoping it is.

Ellipse

19 Oct 2015, 23:59

These are nice designs Roast. I would probably pick http://i.imgur.com/E4Mtdsl.png if I had a choice.

However I believe they are too similar to IBM's trademark "line art" logo and "Big Blue" color. I would not want to consider anything that resembles the original logo. The keyboard designs have become public domain thanks to buckling spring patents that have long since expired, but the IBM logo has not!

Instead of a box with a logo, I upgraded the box to be sturdier double-walled cardboard.

If there is strong interest I would consider adding some F77/F62 line art and other artwork to the brown boxes like a NIB PC AT or PC XT keyboard. How much more would people be willing to pay for a box with artwork? It might be $5 or $10 extra on top of the $325. I know it's already a lot to take in.

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hammelgammler
Vintage

20 Oct 2015, 00:05

Just to get a small overview. Is there enough interest for a F77 with split right shift? :)
Oh yeah, I don't need a fancy packaging. It just needs to be safe for me.

Ellipse

20 Oct 2015, 00:20

Yes all 4 designs will go into production - F62 with and without split right shift, and F77 with and without split right shift.

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Muirium
µ

20 Oct 2015, 00:23

Just imagine the painful look on my face as I ponder what on Earth I need to sell to get a hold of one of these…

You're aiming for ~$350-$400 for an F62 with split shift, in industrial grey case and IBM original caps?

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