F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

User avatar
Muirium
µ

22 Oct 2015, 12:56

Saving for a Tesla? Time to sell off all your boards, not to be buying new ones!

Regarding colour: I love my Kishy the way it was meant to be (albeit with a slightly modified layout). But since I already have this one, if — BIG IF! — I can get anything like Ellipse's asking price gathered up for one of the boards in this project, I'd probably go industrial grey. Black is cool too. Anything much off neutral colour might look fancy at first sight but likely won't play well with caps.

But! What of Unicomp's black cap capability? Or anyone else's, if we need to get knee deep in dye!

modology

22 Oct 2015, 15:11

Techno Trousers wrote:
Hypersphere wrote: I might consider doing a mod to install a flush-mount USB connector (USB B, micro USB or mini USB, depending on available space inside the case).
Future proof it. USB Type C all the way!
Yes, please make it USB Type C

User avatar
Muirium
µ

22 Oct 2015, 15:21

What, right here?

Image

Vizir

22 Oct 2015, 20:40

Muirium wrote:Saving for a Tesla? Time to sell off all your boards, not to be buying new ones!

Regarding colour: I love my Kishy the way it was meant to be (albeit with a slightly modified layout). But since I already have this one, if — BIG IF! — I can get anything like Ellipse's asking price gathered up for one of the boards in this project, I'd probably go industrial grey. Black is cool too. Anything much off neutral colour might look fancy at first sight but likely won't play well with caps.

But! What of Unicomp's black cap capability? Or anyone else's, if we need to get knee deep in dye!
Yes, I'm wondering about Unicomp's black key caps too. Maybe industrial gray will look good with Pearl/pebble too?

I have a spare pearl pebble set at home, just need a right shift of smaller size.

Ellipse

22 Oct 2015, 23:46

Muirium you can have any layout that is supported by the original. The factory will give enough flippers for that layout, and you can ask me for an extra flipper if you think you may change the layout in the future. I will check and test everything before shipping.

The opening for the USB cable in the back is 5.5 mm at its widest point, but I also included the two rectangular cutouts like in the original bottom cover. They are 7.5 mm wide. Unfortunately the USB connector would most likely not fit without slightly widening the gap.
bottom case cutouts.jpg
bottom case cutouts.jpg (58.2 KiB) Viewed 1601 times

User avatar
Muirium
µ

22 Oct 2015, 23:57

How expensive are the flippers? And the barrels? I could use a few of both for my XTant project in waiting…

If they're nothing serious, I'd suggest supplying a full set (plus a few spares) to every buyer, regardless of layout choice. It's always good to be free to change your own layout. Model Fs are superb for that. Same story for barrel inserts, sprinkle a few extra into the standard kit.

Pity about the USB port potential, though. The detachable cable on the HHKB is a very welcome thing in a small keyboard. And the SSK got it right first.

Ellipse

23 Oct 2015, 01:09

Extra barrels and flippers/springs should cost about 50 cents each in bulk - $1 per set. Pricing is not yet finalized.

User avatar
Hypersphere

23 Oct 2015, 01:12

Yes, regarding a detachable cable mod, I forgot to put USB C on my list. I will consider this along with other varieties of USB connectors.

User avatar
fohat
Elder Messenger

23 Oct 2015, 01:49

Muirium wrote: What of Unicomp's black cap capability? Or anyone else's, if we need to get knee deep in dye!
IBM PBT caps dye black beautifully. You can boil them for an hour and they don't care.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

23 Oct 2015, 12:56

Sounds too much like work to me…

What's that smell? Indian food, again?

User avatar
webwit
Wild Duck

23 Oct 2015, 13:10

Black printed caps haven't been available since the M13 was taken out of business, as the white print wore too easily. Unicomp did/does sell blank black caps, but I think I read something about them running out of space bars?

User avatar
Hypersphere

23 Oct 2015, 13:59

webwit wrote: Black printed caps haven't been available since the M13 was taken out of business, as the white print wore too easily. Unicomp did/does sell blank black caps, but I think I read something about them running out of space bars?
The last time I checked, they no longer have full sets of blank black keycaps. I think that the missing ones are the right shift and enter caps (or "buttons" in Unicomp parlance).

User avatar
fohat
Elder Messenger

23 Oct 2015, 14:10

Muirium wrote: Sounds too much like work to me…
When I said "can boil" I didn't mean that you have to.
5-10 minutes at boiling or slightly below will probably be plenty.

Space bars, too, except the crappy ABS ones on late-model Greenocks.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

23 Oct 2015, 15:46

Still sounds like too much work to me. Someone else can stink up their kitchen. I'll pay! Seriously, me anywhere near a stove actually breaks a court order I picked up that one time…

User avatar
0100010

23 Oct 2015, 16:10

I would suggest sticking with an attached cable - less likely to break; more easily repaired if the cable gets mangled.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

23 Oct 2015, 17:04

I love it when people say that. You tear off whole USB ports often? What do you use? A chisel or a hammer and screwdriver?

Fixed cables meanwhile really are a tripping hazard. I've sent quite a few things flying by standing on wires over the years. Fortunately not any IBMs yet. Or I'd wind up hospitalised… again…

User avatar
fohat
Elder Messenger

23 Oct 2015, 17:15

Muirium wrote:
I'll pay!
Wait!

I must be corresponding with the wrong Muirium.

User avatar
Hypersphere

23 Oct 2015, 17:22

Scrooge McMuirium must have been visited recently by keyboard spirits. ;)

@0100010: I wonder how difficult it would be to make a magnetic coupling for USB, like the power-cable coupling on my Macbook Air?

User avatar
Muirium
µ

23 Oct 2015, 18:02

Seems doable, doesn't it? Just four, low voltage connections. What's so hard about that? (I'm wary to begin to guess…)


By the way, sure I'd like to avoid my own mess with dye, and I would pay for the service, but I didn't say how much!

User avatar
fohat
Elder Messenger

23 Oct 2015, 21:00

Hypersphere wrote:
I wonder how difficult it would be to make a magnetic coupling for USB, like the power-cable coupling on my Macbook Air?
There have been a couple of discussions like that on GH. Although I think that Apple is an Evil Empire, that connection on my wife's Macbook is one of the most marvelous and wonderful inventions that I have seen in recent years. They should be on everything.

But there is probably a patent problem involved.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

23 Oct 2015, 21:14

We need more evil empires like that.

Anyway, I don't think we amateurs have anything to worry about re: MagSafe patents. Apple's all about protecting its rights against commercial competitors, and we're not even talking about a power plug anyway. I think if we were to make a magnetic latching USB implementation, especially as a home installed mod, we'll be fine. The bigger problem would be, as always, the work in developing such a working implementation in the first place; not just the hollow idea.

But damn it, I'd love a magnetic USB cable on every peripheral! Not least of all on this here weighty Kish.

User avatar
0100010

23 Oct 2015, 21:22

fohat wrote:
Hypersphere wrote:
I wonder how difficult it would be to make a magnetic coupling for USB, like the power-cable coupling on my Macbook Air?
There have been a couple of discussions like that on GH. Although I think that Apple is an Evil Empire, that connection on my wife's Macbook is one of the most marvelous and wonderful inventions that I have seen in recent years. They should be on everything.

But there is probably a patent problem involved.
I think Apple stole the magnetic power connection idea from Blackberry anyway. Magnetic USB connection would be best, corrosion non withstanding.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

23 Oct 2015, 21:24

Great artists steal.

Meanwhile, taking those pictures the other day made me swap the NovaTouch off my desk and get back to Model F as my main board again for the first time in a few months. Now, I do like me a bit of Topre, but I've got to say the Kishsaver is a magical board. It's as big as my Realforce, and at least twice as heavy, but it handles like my HHKB only… so, so very different. Everyone should have one of these. It's a spectacular piece of kit.

User avatar
RoastPotatoes

23 Oct 2015, 23:20

Muirium wrote: Great artists steal.

Meanwhile, taking those pictures the other day made me swap the NovaTouch off my desk and get back to Model F as my main board again for the first time in a few months. Now, I do like me a bit of Topre, but I've got to say the Kishsaver is a magical board. It's as big as my Realforce, and at least twice as heavy, but it handles like my HHKB only… so, so very different. Everyone should have one of these. It's a spectacular piece of kit.
I've been on and off the fence, but that was a nice testimony. I think this could be a really nice keyboard.

User avatar
Hypersphere

23 Oct 2015, 23:55

With a magnetically coupled USB connector, would there be any issues of interference with the signal? I suppose given that the magnetic field would be stationary (except when connecting and disconnecting) there would not be an induced electrical current. Should work.

Maybe we should draw up a plan and file a joint DT patent application. I know nothing about patent law -- I suppose having discussed the idea in this forum would be public disclosure of the idea. Ah, well, it would be nice just to have such an invention that would benefit our community.

User avatar
0100010

24 Oct 2015, 01:56

They already have them, just for the wrong end of the cable - http://www.magnetic-usb.com/

User avatar
Hypersphere

24 Oct 2015, 02:43

Dang! Well, such is often the case. If you think of a great idea, either someone else has already implemented it, or if you don't act on it right away, it's as if the idea is attached to an elastic band that snaps it back into the cloud of collective consciousness that surrounds the globe and it gets zapped into someone else's mind to act on.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

24 Oct 2015, 02:50

0100010 wrote: They already have them, just for the wrong end of the cable - http://www.magnetic-usb.com/
Yeah, the middle!

Image

I like their expert marketing:
magnetic-usb.com wrote:Connected fast.
magneticUSB scores twice in terms of speed: With full USB 2.0 480 Mbit/s speed, there are no roadblocks slowing down data transmission between your devices. Moreover, if you use multiple magneticUSB cables, the intelligent magnetic interface enables you to quickly connect and disconnect your devices "on-the-fly".
Translation:
Connected not so fast.

We're so sorry. USB 3 caught us with our undies around our ankles. Who saw that coming? Well, anywho, enjoy the awesome power of the good old solid 2.0 version of USB that came out 15 years ago instead. Don't let anyone tell you it's outdated, because that would really mess up our business plan.

Moreover! (Hey, you'll like this bit.) You cheap bastards could always BUY MORE PLUGS and RAID THAT SHIT UP! What's twice as fast as twice the speed? FOUR FUCKING PLUGS BABY! Don't tell us your external hard drives and whatever other shit it is you hook up is too pussy for raw, pure, unadulterated, marketing bullshit SPEED! Because, like, replace that crap. Loser. Get with the program.

(We're so sorry!)
I see a bright future for these clowns. Who wouldn't want a bunch of ugly nubs like that jammed into all their ports, and a bunch of proprietary cables from a company that won't be around for long by the looks of this?

Meanwhile, what we want is something flush at the keyboard body, with a magnetic action that works more like this:

Image

Concentric circles on a shallow cone might be a good idea.

unoab

24 Oct 2015, 05:34

so you are looking for something more like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Wsken-Premium-Mag ... B00YH0CCQE
Image
still not completely flush, but better than the other one and more inline with the apple connector.

Vizir

24 Oct 2015, 18:33

fohat wrote:
Hypersphere wrote:
I wonder how difficult it would be to make a magnetic coupling for USB, like the power-cable coupling on my Macbook Air?
There have been a couple of discussions like that on GH. Although I think that Apple is an Evil Empire, that connection on my wife's Macbook is one of the most marvelous and wonderful inventions that I have seen in recent years. They should be on everything.

But there is probably a patent problem involved.
Apple didn't invent the magnetic power connector. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MagSafe

MagSafe works similarly to the magnetic power connectors that many deep fryers and Japanese countertop cooking appliances from the early 2000s have in order to avoid spilling their dangerously hot contents.

Apple just knows where to rip off great ideas from and put them together into 1 product, then claim they invented everything.


edit: images! http://curmi.com/blog/2007/05/08/magsaf ... r-adapter/

Just a few days ago I had the talk with an apple aficionado, who claimed that they invented everything like firewire (nope!), thunderbolt (nope!!) and iphone (everyone thinks its samsung f700, but they forget that it was Sony who did all the innovation for iPhone like devices - the P900, and Apple poached Sony designers who were working on the first ever rectangular all touch device). http://www.dailytech.com/Samsung+Apples ... e25277.htm

Sorry, I just dislike Apple so much that I just _had_ to write this...
Last edited by Vizir on 24 Oct 2015, 18:54, edited 1 time in total.

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