F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

codemonkeymike

17 May 2018, 12:39

More like you don't want an ETA because it would not be accurate.

evoman

17 May 2018, 17:53

Duplicate deleted
Last edited by evoman on 18 May 2018, 10:05, edited 1 time in total.

evoman

17 May 2018, 17:53

I am asking about a vague ETA because I am having the keyboard delivered to a relative in the US and would like to know if I am likely to be able to collect it when I next visit (which is still a few months off in the future!).

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j0d1

17 May 2018, 18:17

The latest ETA is probably by the end of this year but the painful truth is when it's done.

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JP!

17 May 2018, 18:20

I know my address has changed and could change again before these start shipping. A lot could change by the time these potentially ship out and this could be a headache if people don't update their shipping address or don't have some sort of mail forwarding setup. I would assume these will ship by serial number.

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Blaise170
ALPS キーボード

17 May 2018, 18:27

I still remember when this thread was originally posted. I was thinking of joining but if I had my address would be about 1000 miles away from where I am now. :lol:

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Elrick

18 May 2018, 02:31

codemonkeymike wrote: More like you don't want an ETA because it would not be accurate.
Correct because he'll end up sounding like a 'Politician' which we have all experienced over the years.

Some people who make "Public Promises" then fail upon meeting them, should be burned in the town square for ever making the pledge in the first place (like medieval times).

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Mattr567

24 May 2018, 06:09

wobbled wrote: worth it in the long run
For my grandchildren sure lol /s I ordered mine mid junior year of high school, now I'm graduating :|

Hopefully I'll have it by the time I graduate college lmfao.

This thread seems a bit dead lately, any recent updates?

Ellipse

26 May 2018, 03:46

Any thoughts on the dark gray key caps being 60% dark gray vs. 80%? So far I am leaning towards changing it to 60% unless people are fine with 80%.

Another mini update:
The key factory is fixing up the molds and expects to be finished by the end of next week. They are also working on the color matching. So we could have the final samples in hand in ~2 weeks and then start mass production of the keys in June.

The spring factory is still working on the final samples. They had to put in a special order at the wire factory in Japan as the wire is no longer common enough to stock.

We are wrapping up here. Again my apologies for the long factory production delays, and I thank those who are excited as I am about bringing the Model F back into production!

Speaking of wrapping, I have ordered a gummed paper tape dispenser and tape so the actual keyboard boxes will have a more professional IBM-like appearance, along with the dot matrix printer and green bar computer paper for everyone's packing slip. IBM used paper tape on shipping boxes of many of their 1980s computers and Model F keyboards, and also on their 1390131 two-pack shipping boxes - see third photo here: https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product ... -keyboard/

Catching everyone up on the project:
After speaking with some very helpful advisers including engineers and someone who helped run a successful large Kickstarter campaign, I waited until the factories were able to produce fully functional prototypes and could produce the keyboards for $350 or less before accepting any orders. That was probably the most important piece of advice I've received for this project.
I have studied the challenges of hardware projects, especially those requiring less conventional production processes. One of the issues with some crowdfunded projects revolves around developing new technology and the project fails as they ran out of development resources - this issue is not the case here as the software and controller firmware were fully developed thanks to xwhatsit and the factory has completed the Model F molds and tooling for all the plastic and metal parts (save the keys) so the final round will be able to go much more smoothly. The Model F parts went into production with no yield issues. I read recently about e-ink phone cases and 3D VR headphones as examples of production and technology development problems resulting in them running out of money.

In summary - 100% functionality was achieved with the prototypes; the factory delays have enabled us to move towards meeting the original Model F aesthetics, sound, and experience:
We are not missing our goal here of a Brand New Model F because the factory have completed production of functional Model F parts. All but the keys and springs passed my inspection, were produced, and are boxed up waiting to be assembled. The factories have eventually succeeded in producing the several hundred thousand parts I've ordered so far - PCBs, die cast cases, flippers, barrels, ribbon cables, inner steel assemblies, etc.
In general the factory production delays have historically focused on whether to proceed with the original timeline with working but substandard parts or rejecting the prototypes to make the new Model F as close to the originals as possible - I have always chosen the latter option. Few issues were with parts being non-functional. The goal of this project from the beginning has been a reproduction of the Model F, not a Model F style keyboard.
The two "key" parts remaining are the key sets and springs. The factory has proven they can make the springs within tolerance; just trying to get them to sound as close as possible to the original Model F.
If the keys become a bottleneck we will still be able to deliver the orders using Unicomp keys for those who would prefer not waiting any longer for the new keys (but again almost all of the keys are now approved and within spec, and the factory is just finishing up a few corrections and matching colors).
Last edited by Ellipse on 26 May 2018, 04:10, edited 1 time in total.

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FXT
XT

26 May 2018, 04:07

Another exciting update. Can't wait for my F77. Personally I think 60% would be ideal for the dark grey caps.

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Luna
Alt255

26 May 2018, 04:26

Your attention to detail and quality is simply astonishing, something that sadly got lost in this era of sales, marketing and profit. I’ll be proud to own one of these and will gladly wait for your keycaps.

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Techno Trousers
100,000,000 actuations

26 May 2018, 04:40

I like the 60% gray idea. I think that will look a lot better than the 80% samples.

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j0d1

26 May 2018, 05:23

I prefer the 60% grey... but I would like to see the samples on a keyboard, if possible.

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Elrick

26 May 2018, 06:31

Ellipse wrote: We are wrapping up here. Again my apologies for the long factory production delays, and I thank those who are excited as I am about bringing the Model F back into production!

Speaking of wrapping, I have ordered a gummed paper tape dispenser and tape so the actual keyboard boxes will have a more professional IBM-like appearance, along with the dot matrix printer and green bar computer paper for everyone's packing slip. IBM used paper tape on shipping boxes of many of their 1980s computers and Model F keyboards, and also on their 1390131 two-pack shipping boxes - see third photo here: https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product ... -keyboard/
Geez Ellipse, then it must never be opened when it arrives upon my doorstep. Keeping it all wrapped in it's original packaging is what will make this keyboard a very shrewd investment for the future.
Ellipse wrote: In summary - 100% functionality was achieved with the prototypes; the factory delays have enabled us to move towards meeting the original Model F aesthetics, sound, and experience:
We are not missing our goal here of a Brand New Model F because the factory have completed production of functional Model F parts. All but the keys and springs passed my inspection, were produced, and are boxed up waiting to be assembled.
You have indeed moistened an old man, that was beginning to lose hope in this venture ;) .
Ellipse wrote: The goal of this project from the beginning has been a reproduction of the Model F, not a Model F style keyboard.
The two "key" parts remaining are the key sets and springs. The factory has proven they can make the springs within tolerance; just trying to get them to sound as close as possible to the original Model F.
Too, fucking right :!:
Ellipse wrote: If the keys become a bottleneck we will still be able to deliver the orders using Unicomp keys for those who would prefer not waiting any longer for the new keys (but again almost all of the keys are now approved and within spec, and the factory is just finishing up a few corrections and matching colors).
Shall wait for the keys to arrive because waiting some more won't kill me, at least I hope not.

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darkcruix

26 May 2018, 11:27

Ellipse wrote: Any thoughts on the dark gray key caps being 60% dark gray vs. 80%? So far I am leaning towards changing it to 60% unless people are fine with 80%.
I'd love to see 60% instead of 80%. I am one of those who need to see the legends (at least for some keys I don't use very often)
Ellipse wrote: The key factory is fixing up the molds and expects to be finished by the end of next week. They are also working on the color matching. So we could have the final samples in hand in ~2 weeks and then start mass production of the keys in June.
Fantastic news - looking so forward to see some more pictures when they are available.
Ellipse wrote: We are wrapping up here.
Wow - wonderful. As much as I like to hold one of the keyboards in my hands, I also want you to succeed with your vision...


After all, I am so thankful, you took on this challenge to create a reproduction instead of a look-a-like. Great day !

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strah

26 May 2018, 15:11

I also like the 60% gray better, 80% has not enough contrast in regards to the legends and might make them unreadable instead of "stealthy"-looking

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FXT
XT

26 May 2018, 16:19

Is there any chance that keycap orders will ship out before the keyboards go out?

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XMIT
[ XMIT ]

27 May 2018, 03:37

I still haven't placed an order. I feel like as soon as I do keyboards will start to ship. Maybe that's the holdup.

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Mattr567

27 May 2018, 05:54

Now there's an update!

I didnt order any caps :lol:

Takashi

27 May 2018, 13:28

Hi all!

I was wondering one thing. I've ordered a F77-model with ISO/Swedish layout.
As accessories I ordered the front printed f-key and industrial SSK blue keys.

Now I realize the SSK blue keys will be additional keys supplied, and will not be ISO/Swe standard.
But what about the front-printed keys? Because the top-row keys (1..9, etc) ISO/SWE layout differs from the standard ANSI one, how will the front-printed look like? Will the front-printing (F1..F9) be done on the Swedish-layout, or will I receive the standard (non front-printed) ISO/SWE keys and receive additional keys being front-printed but with the ANSI layout?

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depletedvespene

27 May 2018, 17:18

Ellipse wrote: Any thoughts on the dark gray key caps being 60% dark gray vs. 80%? So far I am leaning towards changing it to 60% unless people are fine with 80%.
I... uh... must have missed the picture comparing 60% samples to 80% ones. Any kind soul that may point me in the right direction?

Ellipse

29 May 2018, 05:06

ok I have requested the 60% grey samples.

depleted, darkcruix on 5/12 posted an 80% gray dye sublimated key sample to show that everyone may want to consider 60%.

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Elrick

29 May 2018, 06:27

Ellipse wrote: depleted, darkcruix on 5/12 posted an 80% gray dye sublimated key sample to show that everyone may want to consider 60%.
NO not everyone wants a 60% keyboard, whilst I still draw breath :evil: .

Firmly behind my F77 standard and if you could ever decide to do an F122 as well, then heaven has been bestowed upon us.

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Techno Trousers
100,000,000 actuations

29 May 2018, 07:10

Stand down, Ekrick. 60% gray colored keys.

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Blaise170
ALPS キーボード

29 May 2018, 08:09

60% is by far the worst form factor. :mrgreen:

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depletedvespene

29 May 2018, 13:01

Blaise170 wrote: 60% is by far the worst form factor. :mrgreen:
Oh, I've seen worse.

But I even I understood that Ellipse was talking about keycap colors, not form factors.

Anderino

30 May 2018, 10:52

I was wondering about the keyboard layouts for less common keys now that we have switched from unicomp to a different supplier. In my order, I had a JIS layout with quite a few customisations. I was wondering if more uncommon layouts like that were still progressing as planned or if there might be some potential problems.

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consolation

31 May 2018, 00:19

Unless I'm mistaken, the keys are all the same profile and rely on the plate to change the row angle. You should be able to have any layout you want by programming the controller and placing the keys where you want them.

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digital_matthew

31 May 2018, 02:16

consolation wrote: Unless I'm mistaken, the keys are all the same profile and rely on the plate to change the row angle. You should be able to have any layout you want by programming the controller and placing the keys where you want them.
True. All you really need to care about is the key size when creating your own layout.

yac

31 May 2018, 15:35

I've been thinking of ordering an extra set to cap my original model f to make it appear same as i have mapped it, but that means some odd prints on various shaped keys. Wonder if it is possible to mix/match any print with any size key? Come to think of it, maybe the best thing would be to retrofit my original with an Ellipse PCB etc, i could just use std keys.

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