F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

User avatar
Twst

04 Jun 2020, 11:11

Does the haptic feedback part of QMK work on the xwhatsit controller? Guess it still could be assigned to B6 as on the capsense?

Looking into of replacing the teensy running QMK in my F122 with the xwhatsit to get rid of the old controller and converting part :)

User avatar
tentator

04 Jun 2020, 11:24

We still did not test the solenoid expansion header but I'd say that should be an easy part then, will let you know when we manage to test it as well, I've already an xwhatsit solenoid driver to drive the original ibm beamspring solenoid here.. and I'm also interested in trying the other solutions like kmnov was able to use 5v solenoids with lower ampere, which seems quite good idea as well.. so I plan to experiment with that as well!

tent

User avatar
Twst

04 Jun 2020, 11:39

Cool, looking forward to it.
Should be straight forward with whatever plugged in it as long as you get the solenoid line to fire. Only when using the xwhatsit solenoid board you need a high pin to wake the board, but that should be easy enough to get going ;)
Maybe a specific setting for activating the xwhatsit solenoid board would be handy. Then you have the pin otherwise free to use for other stuff.

xyzzy

04 Jun 2020, 12:34

tentator wrote:
04 Jun 2020, 10:37
Are you by any chance on a Mac? :)
Mac user here, using a F62 / HHKB layout 10 hours a day without a hitch.
Feel free PM me if I can be of help!

User avatar
tentator

04 Jun 2020, 14:09

pm sent :) great!

Ellipse

04 Jun 2020, 18:55

I can confirm that pandrew's utility works 100% to get an xwhatsit into bootloader mode without having to open up the keyboard. It is so easy now! Big thanks to pandrew and tentator for their work on this program.

I purposely set a too-low voltage threshold on a keyboard with a configured layout and clicked store to eeprom. Then keyboard started outputting lots of keys. I restarted the computer with the keyboard disconnected, then used pandrew's utility, followed the rest of the steps on my imgur instructional album, and it was successfully fixed!

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tentator

04 Jun 2020, 19:03

that's great to hear ellipse!
also thank you xyzzy for confirming it compiles and also works on OSX!
so we also have dmg and binaries indeed now that are finally tested on all OSes, cool!

tent:wq

typhune

05 Jun 2020, 02:15

Hi! Just received my F77 and am having a few issues getting the ibm_capsense_usb_util running on OSX Catalina 10.15.4.

It simply pops with the "ibm_capsense_usb_util quit unexpectedly". From the crash dump, it appears that it is :"terminating with uncaught exception of type std::runtime_error: error initialising hidapi"

I tried compiling from source to workaorund this and get the gui, but I'm unsure how to compile the GUI. I can compile the hex, iss, maps, just fine, just unsure about the QT side.

Any ideas how to get past this error or recompile the GUI?

BTW, I'm running the 0.9.0 version from the site listed at modelfkeyboards.com/code. I understand there is a 0.9.2 version, but it's not listed on this site: http://downloads.cornall.co/ibm-capsense-usb/

User avatar
wobbled

05 Jun 2020, 09:26

typhune wrote:
05 Jun 2020, 02:15
Hi! Just received my F77 and am having a few issues getting the ibm_capsense_usb_util running on OSX Catalina 10.15.4.

It simply pops with the "ibm_capsense_usb_util quit unexpectedly". From the crash dump, it appears that it is :"terminating with uncaught exception of type std::runtime_error: error initialising hidapi"

I tried compiling from source to workaorund this and get the gui, but I'm unsure how to compile the GUI. I can compile the hex, iss, maps, just fine, just unsure about the QT side.

Any ideas how to get past this error or recompile the GUI?

BTW, I'm running the 0.9.0 version from the site listed at modelfkeyboards.com/code. I understand there is a 0.9.2 version, but it's not listed on this site: http://downloads.cornall.co/ibm-capsense-usb/
Just set the board up using Windows, idk why anyone is trying to use MacOS and Linux. Just making it harder for yourself.

troglotype

05 Jun 2020, 09:48

wobbled wrote:
05 Jun 2020, 09:26
Just set the board up using Windows, idk why anyone is trying to use MacOS and Linux. Just making it harder for yourself.
Some people just want adapters or free beer.

User avatar
darkcruix

05 Jun 2020, 10:09

I have a freshly compiled version that works on 10.15.4 available here: http://www.linux-tin.org/ibm_capsense_usb_util.zip
I left it at 0.9.0 as there were no changes made to the GUI, except a re-compile with latest QT sources.

dad

05 Jun 2020, 11:56

Ellipse Are there any news on the second container ship? In May 11 update you wrote:
The second and final early bird round container shipment is set to ship in 1-2 weeks.
Also are there any updates on "mass sublimation", was expected to start in June.

typhune

05 Jun 2020, 14:18

darkcruix wrote:
05 Jun 2020, 10:09
I have a freshly compiled version that works on 10.15.4 available here: http://www.linux-tin.org/ibm_capsense_usb_util.zip
I left it at 0.9.0 as there were no changes made to the GUI, except a re-compile with latest QT sources.
Awesome, this worked flawlessly. For the folks asking why not do it on a a windows machine, I don't have one. I tried on a windows VM, but it couldn't recognize the controller. In any case, Darkcruix, this worked just fine. Hope other OSX users can benefit.

AndyGarton

05 Jun 2020, 15:39

Hi guys, my two keyboards have arrived, and unfortunately out of the box many of the keys don't work when connected to a Windows PC. Is there something I need to do software wise, or are they just broken?

(I'm also missing a couple of physical keys, is that common?)

User avatar
Twst

05 Jun 2020, 16:33

You need to install the capsense software (https://static.wongcornall.com/ibm-capsense-usb/) and adjust the current threshold until every key registrers. This value varies both from boards and from one computer to another.
Ellipse's post a few post back included a picture step by step guide for this.

Note that you won't need to do anything else than the current threshold part.

consensual-penis

05 Jun 2020, 17:12

So I got my board, I'm in love to say the least.

What should I do if I have a few keys that register more than once per key stroke?

My f key sometimes registers two to three key strokes.

consensual-penis

05 Jun 2020, 18:08

New issue, one of my shift keys is just engaging on it's own and I have no idea what to do about it

typhune

05 Jun 2020, 18:18

consensual-penis wrote:
05 Jun 2020, 18:08
New issue, one of my shift keys is just engaging on it's own and I have no idea what to do about it
Since I literally just went through this yesterday with my new model F, make sure you have the gui setup so that you can adjust voltages. Usually when I've had an issue, I just pop off the key and reseat, and that seems to work most of the time. Just make sure to lean the keyboard on it's back edge when putting the cap back on, and that should work.

Damn this thing is loud. but it is awesome.

consensual-penis

05 Jun 2020, 18:20

The spring on my left shift won't touch the top of the barrel, and the spring on the right shift is biased to the left side and won't touch the top of the barrel. Could that be the issue?

I played around with the springs like elipse showed in his video and right now they're working fine, is there anything else I should do?

also don't know how to fix the multiple letters per press of the letter F.

And sorry for spamming, I finally got my new toy and am a little bit too excited

Ellipse

05 Jun 2020, 19:42

Double presses and other issues could be related to the debounce filter, threshold, seating of the spring on the flipper nub, or some kind of damage to the spring (the tops of the springs can get caught on something and bend out of shape - spring damage can't be 100% fixed in my experience without replacing the spring itself).

Andy what you describe is usually an issue with the threshold setting or the way that the keys were installed (did you follow the key installation procedure posted on the project web site blog? If the keyboard wasn't held upright and each key tested for the proper click beforehand, that may be the cause).

Whenever adjusting the threshold, I strongly recommend blanking out the layout by installing a blank layout. You can go back to one of the premade layouts by importing them (the layout files are available at ModelFKeyboards.com/code )

dad the container shipment and the dye sublimation have been delayed. The dye sublimation has taken longer than expected, and the container shipment should be leaving China later this month, expected to arrive late next month. It has been very frustrating that this final aspect of the project has taken longer than I had initially expected, especially after the since-resolved factory issues that caused delays in the past. The dye sublimation is expected to take about 6-8 weeks from now to go to mass sublimation, from what I have been told.

To save time and reduce the potential for issues delaying things, the factory has also started working on improved processes to make sure the timeline is far faster for the final round later this year.

As a note I am still going through early shipments of orders with the keys shipping later. Still have a ways to go getting these orders out. My final QC has taken longer than previously expected with each keyboard. I am still offering this option for early shipment and separate shipment of keys if anyone is interested (please check last month's blog update for details before reaching out to me if you're considering it).
Last edited by Ellipse on 05 Jun 2020, 20:10, edited 1 time in total.

consensual-penis

05 Jun 2020, 20:01

Now that I have it working, it's like a dream come true

You did an awesome job Elipse!

Now i Just need to figure out how to get QMK on here
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Ellipse

05 Jun 2020, 21:15

Here are some excellent quality photos sent to me of the Brand New Model F keys installed on an IBM Industrial SSK, including a comparison of the original two piece keys to the new one piece keys.

The keys look great on the original IBM keyboard!
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User avatar
robo

05 Jun 2020, 22:04

Not being snarky, just honestly curious - why is it that this keyboard seems to need per-computer parameter tweaking to get keys registering and properly debouncing, when... well, pretty much no other keyboard I've heard of requires this? What is it that makes it so finicky?

User avatar
tentator

05 Jun 2020, 22:06

Once the qmk porting will be released you can forget about calibration and thresholds! ;)

jacks

06 Jun 2020, 04:11

robo wrote:
05 Jun 2020, 22:04
Not being snarky, just honestly curious - why is it that this keyboard seems to need per-computer parameter tweaking to get keys registering and properly debouncing, when... well, pretty much no other keyboard I've heard of requires this? What is it that makes it so finicky?
1. Pretty much every other board is using switches that have been around a long time and are already well tested (debugged). These are copies of an old design, but have been done from scratch. No doubt IBM went through a similar process decades ago to sort out their production processes.

2. Nearly all other switches are contact based, and its comparatively easy to interpret the electrical signals from them - the switch will bounce up and down when pressed (rapidly switching on and off in some switch designs), but basically the electrical signal is either on or off with a clear distinction between the two. These however are capacitive. As the flipper gets closer to the circuit board the capacitance changes, but there is no clear 'this is on' and 'this is off'. Add in that the flipper is going to be bouncing around for a while after the spring collapses, and that even things like temperature can change the sensitivity of the circuits, and it becomes much harder to make sure the signal from the switch is interpreted correctly. Model Fs were reliable, so this can all be done, but there are more things that can go wrong than with simpler switches and it is taking time and lots of iterative changes to get the programs interpreting the electrical signals as good as they can be.

AndyGarton

06 Jun 2020, 15:19

Has anybody been able to get the "non-US # and ~" mapping to work please? It's the only one I can't get to work on my UK keyboard. The physical key is fine as I can map anything else to it. Also the similar "non-US \ and |" mapping works fine.

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zetaomegagon

06 Jun 2020, 17:02

tentator wrote:
05 Jun 2020, 22:06
Once the qmk porting will be released you can forget about calibration and thresholds! ;)
Do you happen to need any more MacOS testers?

I've got both the 62 and 77 key boards if that makes any difference.

User avatar
tentator

06 Jun 2020, 17:58

Yes yes please, especially to test the f77!

consensual-penis

07 Jun 2020, 03:28

so I went with the hhkb layout, and the right shift isn't functioning. I don't know if the issue lies in the firmware, if there's something wrong with the switch, or if it's something that I hadn't thought of

any Idea what the issue could be?

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zrrion

07 Jun 2020, 03:39

does that key work with other layouts?

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