F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

User avatar
tentator

17 Aug 2020, 20:16

Wow!!

hgoodbar

17 Aug 2020, 22:36

Another vote for the QMK beta! I was having ghost keypresses and the threshold settings weren't consistent for all keys. Got the firmware loaded over the weekend and everything's been working better!

Aoeut

18 Aug 2020, 08:31

Could I get an invite to the QMK beta?

PM'd pandrew, thanks hgoodbar.
Last edited by Aoeut on 19 Aug 2020, 05:02, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
darkcruix

18 Aug 2020, 09:23

Scarpia wrote:
17 Aug 2020, 18:24
...
That looks amazing!
I constantly make changes and updates to the PDF (link: http://www.linux-tin.org/ModelFManual.pdf)

For those who are interested, the IBM technical manuals from the 1980ies did look like this (here one in German):
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Spoiler:
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helohe

18 Aug 2020, 17:51

darkcruix wrote:
17 Aug 2020, 13:25
I've played around with content and design language of the original IBM Technical Reference manuals and wanted to share a very early draft version of what I would enjoy owning.
http://www.linux-tin.org/ModelFManual.pdf

Obviously I used information that is out there already (referenced in the footnotes) and added my pictures and graphics.
For the moment, I create it for my own joy, but wanted to get some feedback, if there is some interest out there in helping to add content, correct things, help in the design, correct any references I missed, etc
That looks amazing :)

hgoodbar

18 Aug 2020, 19:01

Aoeut wrote:
18 Aug 2020, 08:31
Could I get an invite to the QMK beta?
Send a private message to pandrew for the QMK beta.

OxC0FFEE

18 Aug 2020, 20:58

Zcool31 wrote:
15 Aug 2020, 23:22
Shaders are awesome! Was screwing around with them and got this effect.

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WOW. Something like that would make a lovely inside front/back cover, or multiple glamour close-up in that style in between sections.

Ellipse

19 Aug 2020, 00:29

A few of the production solenoids arrived and they are excellent!

The solenoids are more than double the weight of the original IBM beam spring solenoid in one of my 3278 keyboards.

The adjustable stroke of the new solenoids works well. At full stroke (5mm) the solenoid is at its heftiest. The solenoid was also well engineered and was able to keep up even at full stroke with my typing of 90 wpm without noticeable queueing of clicks (I prefer the 5mm maximum stroke setting. The factory default setting is 0.5mm which produces a more comparable stroke to the original solenoids). It was set to 25ms extend, 50ms retract in the xwhatsit controller settings.

Currently 90 solenoids and 106 solenoid drivers have been ordered. Both are still available to order!
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Ellipse

19 Aug 2020, 02:01

Also a few of the new USB-C beam spring and beam spring - displaywriter controllers arrived!

They all have tested good, except one which has a bad row (not sure if a component is bad or if some reflowing will fix the issue - any recommendations from SMT soldering experts out there?).
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User avatar
Mattr567

19 Aug 2020, 05:48

Those solenoids look great. I got my original IBM one working with the new driver PCB and it's fantastic!

Ellipse

19 Aug 2020, 05:57

Dye sublimation update - excellent progress:

The factory has done an outstanding job with the latest key samples. They seem to have perfected the various variables to get a good quality result.

On my Meiji stereo microscope it is almost impossible to tell the difference in sublimation quality (sharpness, color quality) from my top reference standard F122 from 1984. I was surprised that there was nearly zero off color bleed / dye migration in the new samples, while even my '84 keys had a tiny amount of this only visible on the scope.

Right now you can tell the difference from the originals due to the poor legend alignment which is far from approved.

I have just approved the sublimation quality of these samples. The next steps are for the factory to work on the alignment which involves more work on the jigs.

Below are some (slightly out of focus) phone photos below - hope to post some high res scans from my Epson V700 soon. It compares the 3 new S D F key samples to original IBM XT keys (installed on the keyboard) and the S key borrowed from my reference F122.

The legends are a bit too thick and will require adjustment to match the originals.
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darkcruix

19 Aug 2020, 10:25

Such exciting times! Ellipse you don't know, how much I look forward to it!!!

After about a month of ownership of the zinc cast models, I also wanted to give a feedback of the powder coating...
I have 5 of them and two additional cases. I used a beige case on a F62 very frequently and also in some rougher areas. Meaning, I was using them outside and was moving around with it having other parts on top of it (e.g. metal touch pad, USB hub, keys). NOTHING chipped off and it looks like on day one.

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ro0llo

19 Aug 2020, 11:28

Image

ITS HERE :P :D

Feels great to type!

Where can I get invited for QMK Beta?

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darkcruix

19 Aug 2020, 11:45

ro0llo wrote:
19 Aug 2020, 11:28
Image
STUNNING look - thanks for sharing.

User avatar
ro0llo

19 Aug 2020, 11:52

Thank you! Some keys of a Unicomp I had laying around doin nothing:) Planning to paint the upper part of the case metallic light blue, keeping the bottom part silver as it is. And then with the classic style printed keys which will arrive later when they are done by Ellipse will be the end game :D

bigpook

19 Aug 2020, 12:02

Thanks for creating this. I will add this to my F77 documentation folder. Good job!
darkcruix wrote:
17 Aug 2020, 13:25
I've played around with content and design language of the original IBM Technical Reference manuals and wanted to share a very early draft version of what I would enjoy owning.
http://www.linux-tin.org/ModelFManual.pdf

Obviously I used information that is out there already (referenced in the footnotes) and added my pictures and graphics.
For the moment, I create it for my own joy, but wanted to get some feedback, if there is some interest out there in helping to add content, correct things, help in the design, correct any references I missed, etc

Ellipse

19 Aug 2020, 18:01

Thanks darkcruix for your update on the case powdercoating and on the Model F manual.

Interest check: ultra durable modern style powdercoating for classic zinc and/or compact aluminum cases?

Just to show everyone how far powdercoating has come: here's a video of me taking the end of a screwdriver and trying to damage these samples. Only the faintest of marks was left on these cases.

I am wondering if anyone would be interested in tough coatings for the final round. I am planning on switching at least the compact cases to the tough powdercoating instead of the anodizing. The appearance is great for both of them and the powdercoating is far more durable than anodizing. You'll still be able to get the classic powdercoating no matter what, as a possible option for the classic style cases.
Great keyboard setup ro0llo!

User avatar
darkcruix

19 Aug 2020, 18:34

Ellipse wrote:
19 Aug 2020, 18:01
Interest check: ultra durable modern style powdercoating for classic zinc and/or compact aluminum cases?
...
I'd be very interested in the durable one for the compact cases. I am going to put one of the compact ones in my travel case (shall the world change ever again :)), so more durability would be awesome. I'd be in for at least two compact F77 cases.

Zcool31

19 Aug 2020, 19:55

OxC0FFEE wrote:
18 Aug 2020, 20:58
Zcool31 wrote:
15 Aug 2020, 23:22
Shaders are awesome! Was screwing around with them and got this effect.

render3.png
WOW. Something like that would make a lovely inside front/back cover, or multiple glamour close-up in that style in between sections.
Glad you liked it. The model used there was horrible. I couldn't find any 3D models of the Kishsaver, so I did one myself.
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All the dimensions and angles are rough guesses, and the keycap shape is slightly wrong. I'd appreciate corrections.

User avatar
darkcruix

19 Aug 2020, 23:20

Nice work on the model Zcoll31!
I have created the first 35+ pages so far and I think I have a good flow. On the other hand, I fear it will be a somewhat larger than expected in the end. I stumble from one interesting fact (for me) into the next one. :D

http://www.linux-tin.org/ModelFManual.pdf

Gurbsordidity

20 Aug 2020, 00:08

Ellipse wrote:
19 Aug 2020, 18:01
Interest check: ultra durable modern style powdercoating for classic zinc and/or compact aluminum cases?
I'm in for modern powdercoating of the classic zinc case. I'll be ordering at least one the next round, and if a more durable coating is available, then that's what I'll order.

latemodel24

20 Aug 2020, 00:18

I havent put my order in on my f77 yet but I would be interested in the modern powercoating on the classic f77

Jacobalbertus1

20 Aug 2020, 00:35

yeah the durable option need to be a thing because I have serial number 48 f77 and to say the least the scratch resistances sucks ass its to the point where literaly putting it in my backpack has scrached the paint bad in some areas

Lagomorph

20 Aug 2020, 03:42

Ellipse wrote:
19 Aug 2020, 02:01
Also a few of the new USB-C beam spring and beam spring - displaywriter controllers arrived!
Ellipse, I have a 5251 with an xwhatsit controller I bought on ebay. While it works, it's exceedingly finicky. Any tiny jolt or movement of the keyboard and there's a decent chance that keys or rows will stop registering correctly, and I have to re-seat the controller pins. While I wouldn't call it loose fit, the connection between the controller and the keyboard PCB isn't very tight at all.

Is this a common occurrence, or does that sound like something that could be remedied by a replacement controller? They're pretty pricey, so I'm trying to avoid that if possible. I've also considered wire-soldering the board to the controller, but that's not an ideal solution.

I was going to PM this question but thought someone else might benefit from the exchange. Thank you sir.

Ellipse

20 Aug 2020, 05:18

Lagomorph the new USB-C beam spring controllers have card edge connectors that are tighter fitting to the beam spring capacitive PCBs. The fit of one of these new controllers is properly tight to my 3278 beam spring controller. The older controllers were a bit looser fitting, maybe due to using molds that needed retooling, though I never had an issue with a loose connection.

Also you have to dremel or file down the edge of the right side of the card edge connector for some models but not for others because of the shape of the IBM PCB. Yes for the 3278's and not sure on the others.

kmnov2017

20 Aug 2020, 11:51

Lagomorph wrote:
20 Aug 2020, 03:42
Ellipse wrote:
19 Aug 2020, 02:01
Also a few of the new USB-C beam spring and beam spring - displaywriter controllers arrived!
Ellipse, I have a 5251 with an xwhatsit controller I bought on ebay. While it works, it's exceedingly finicky. Any tiny jolt or movement of the keyboard and there's a decent chance that keys or rows will stop registering correctly, and I have to re-seat the controller pins. While I wouldn't call it loose fit, the connection between the controller and the keyboard PCB isn't very tight at all.

Is this a common occurrence, or does that sound like something that could be remedied by a replacement controller? They're pretty pricey, so I'm trying to avoid that if possible. I've also considered wire-soldering the board to the controller, but that's not an ideal solution.

I was going to PM this question but thought someone else might benefit from the exchange. Thank you sir.
Stick a piece of paper that runs along the entire length of the edge connector so that it fits more snug/tight. This will solve the problem....

User avatar
darkcruix

20 Aug 2020, 13:22

kmnov2017 wrote:
20 Aug 2020, 11:51
...
Stick a piece of paper that runs along the entire length of the edge connector so that it fits more snug/tight. This will solve the problem....
That's what we have done with our beam spring keyboards for a while, kmnov2017 :lol:
QMK is also helping with other minor issues I had, like sporadic contact loss of a row :)

Lagomorph

20 Aug 2020, 13:36

Ellipse wrote:
20 Aug 2020, 05:18
Lagomorph the new USB-C beam spring controllers have card edge connectors that are tighter fitting to the beam spring capacitive PCBs.
kmnov2017 wrote:
20 Aug 2020, 11:51
Stick a piece of paper that runs along the entire length of the edge connector so that it fits more snug/tight. This will solve the problem....
Thanks guys. Can't believe I didn't think of that paper trick. I'll give that a whirl, and worst case scenario it sounds like the new controllers might be an option.

Much appreciated. :)

kmnov2017

20 Aug 2020, 14:10

Lagomorph wrote:
20 Aug 2020, 13:36
Ellipse wrote:
20 Aug 2020, 05:18
Lagomorph the new USB-C beam spring controllers have card edge connectors that are tighter fitting to the beam spring capacitive PCBs.
kmnov2017 wrote:
20 Aug 2020, 11:51
Stick a piece of paper that runs along the entire length of the edge connector so that it fits more snug/tight. This will solve the problem....
Thanks guys. Can't believe I didn't think of that paper trick. I'll give that a whirl, and worst case scenario it sounds like the new controllers might be an option.

Much appreciated. :)
You may also want to try this fun project to build your own controller for super cheap - viewtopic.php?t=23406

Zcool31

20 Aug 2020, 15:07

Fixed the keycap shape. The spacebar now has the proper hump.
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