F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

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darkcruix

09 Oct 2019, 17:40

Ellipse, if you had a chance to play with the dye sub process more, do you mind sharing a picture of some of your tests? I am really curious how that goes along.

NilesLinus

09 Oct 2019, 23:53

darkcruix wrote:
09 Oct 2019, 17:40
Ellipse, if you had a chance to play with the dye sub process more, do you mind sharing a picture of some of your tests? I am really curious how that goes along.
Yes me too!

cods

17 Oct 2019, 23:08

cods wrote:
28 Jun 2019, 00:04
Ellipse wrote:
26 Jun 2019, 23:51
Bluetooth wireless keyboard option?

Someone just messaged me the following option for a wireless Model F and I was wondering if anyone has looked into it:
The Handheld Scientific BT-500 Bluetooth Adapter for Keyboard & Mouse:
http://handheldsci.com/kb/
Using this adapter, removed from its case, you could possibly fit it inside the spacious case of the Model F.

Looks like it has one end to attach the USB cable from the controller and the other end to connect any USB battery.
Ellipse, I have one of these, and have tried it with multiple keyboards (including Model M) and computers/devices and USB batteries.

It’s terribly flaky and does not work very well - disconnects semi-randomly, doesn’t wake up randomly, connecting new devices is clunky... After a few weeks of trying to make it useful, I gave up and consigned it to the junk drawer.

Unfortunately I don’t think this is the answer, although if someone else out there has had more success, I’d gladly take advice and retrieve it from The Drawer Of Poor Purchasing Decisions.
So, just an update for those interested in adding a Bluetooth capability to the F62, F77 or any USB-only keyboard. Please forgive the digression / tangent, I'll leave it at just this post in this thread. If anyone is interested I could start another thread? Apologies if the images are comically large.

Intrepid explorer that I am, and disregarding the danger of adding to my Drawer Of Poor Purchasing Decisions™, whilst waiting for my Unicorn keyboard to appear, and in the hope of finding something to enable me to add Bluetooth to any keyboard, I backed the Gamo-G+) on Kickstarter.

I care not about the potential for gaining an unfair advantage in tablet / phone gaming, but part of the blurb caught my eye. Here's the specifications:
Image

It arrived today - here's what my setup looks like. Yeah, I just needed to see if it worked... it probably doesn't need a 26,800mAh battery. I'm typing this post on this hardware setup right now:
Image

The Gamo-G+ adaptor itself - note the three-position sliding hardware switch, IP (iPhone) / PC (PC, more on that in a minute) / AND (Android). Mine is switched to PC mode.
Image

How it appears in the Bluetooth settings on my Mac mini (it's "GA01_Mouse" - yeah, 'mouse', it's odd, but here I am typing away and words appear on the screen, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯):
Image

So far, so good, half an hour in.
  • It works fine for keyboard connectivity to the Mac.
  • It needs to be in "PC" mode, in IP or AND modes, it'll connect to the Mac but weird stuff occurs.
  • I can switch it to keyboard input to my iPhone through the phone's Bluetooth menu and tapping the Game-G+'s 'reset' switch. But it's a bit clunkier than the nice built-in three-device Bluetooth setups.
  • I haven't taken it apart yet, but even with the plastic case on it, it's fairly small.
Anyway, any questions, I can start a new thread or something. Cheers!

Humanoid

28 Oct 2019, 15:56

Ellipse wrote:
27 Sep 2019, 23:48
The shipping container is packed to the edge!
Have the shipping containers been put on the ship yet? Are they currently moving across the sea? Do you have any kind of online tracking on when they are expected to arrive at their final destination?

Ellipse

28 Oct 2019, 23:37

Yes Humanoid we are about two weeks away from the container ship arriving in NY!

Yes I have online tracking and have been following the ship's movements and estimated date of arrival (sorry I decided against sharing the container number and tracking web site). The web site makes it as easy to track as a package - you can see where in the world the ship is.

User avatar
darkcruix

29 Oct 2019, 07:35

If all goes according plan, I am looking forward to hold the New Model F in my hands in 2019 !!! Can't wait ... what a journey !!!

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Khers

29 Oct 2019, 12:31

Speaking of plan, has there been any progress on the dyesubbing?

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darkcruix

29 Oct 2019, 15:27

Khers wrote:
29 Oct 2019, 12:31
Speaking of plan, has there been any progress on the dyesubbing?
Indeed - I am interested in that as well.

I also had this picture in my head, having suddenly a container with boxes over boxes in my garden that insides all require dye-sub... Overwhelming.

NilesLinus

30 Oct 2019, 05:21

For sure this is the burning question. Ellipse, can you give us any details on how the dye sub process is shaping up. We're chomping at the bit here. :)

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darkcruix

31 Oct 2019, 14:57

I am pretty sure that either next week or the week after, Ellipse will send us pictures of the container and its precious inside.

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alh84001
v.001

01 Nov 2019, 08:30

So, this is finally happening. I've been out of the loop for a while now, so it's nice to see this progressing. And I'll be in NY in December, so fingers crossed I receive it before xmas :). I'll have to stop by the shop page to order some of those extra keycaps.

@ellipse can you please PM me with my current order details, if you have them handy, I forgot them in the meantime :)

Ellipse

05 Nov 2019, 02:02

Sure - sent alh84001!

Photos of the container were posted earlier in the thread (around a month ago) for those who want to see the actual container and pallets.

No updates yet on the dye sub. I recently chatted again with the original IBM Model F keyboard production engineer who provided additional details on the dye sublimation specifics, to help improve my setup.

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darkcruix

05 Nov 2019, 13:17

Thanks Ellipse.
While the keyboards are only a few days away from landing, I would love to see some pictures of the event if possible.
Can't imagine what a journey this have been so far for getting them to the place they soon will be.

Sp33ls

09 Nov 2019, 22:20

On top of that, I'm looking forward to seeing some pictures of the boards themselves when they land and during the preparation of sending out to everyone :D

Ellipse

09 Nov 2019, 23:59

The container ship has arrived in the port! I am told it will take another 1-2 weeks for remaining steps for delivery to me.

Yes I will post photos throughout the coming weeks/months and plan on taking a photo of each unique configuration to upload to the web site in the future.

A recap of the dye sub process:
The keys will still need to be dye subbed - will be done as I do QC inspections and get orders ready to save time. Keys for dye sub are pre-installed to plastic sheets (photos and videos posted a while back) that are drop in ready for the dye sub jig - do not need to uninstall then reinstall. Dye subbed keys should be able to just press in to the keyboards as IBM did back in the day - no need to install each key one at a time.

My dye sub setup works but I am trying to maximize the quality and consistency. I recently chatted again with the original IBM Model F keyboard production engineer who provided additional details on the dye sublimation specifics, to help improve my setup. I am now working on all the digital control systems for the setup - all completely different from my current setup - after doing further research and after a conference call this week with some engineers who have designed similar modern-day systems.

It will take a long time to get all the orders out but not due to dye sublimation - more time will be spent doing QC and testing every keyboard one at a time.

There are about 1,900 keyboards ordered and I expect to dye sub 4 key sets at one time. Not sure yet how long each round will take. If each round takes 15 minutes (a guess), sublimating 2000 sets would take about 125 hours. Blank key orders are all factory installed to save time.

segacontroller

10 Nov 2019, 15:52

blank key low/custom serials are essentially ready to ship right? only thing left is your qc process and everything is complete.... or are we still waiting on some other part?

i want to be hype. is that allowed?

Ellipse

10 Nov 2019, 16:55

Yes correct sega (as noted earlier blank boards are not going out before printed boards).

segacontroller

11 Nov 2019, 14:24

ok. hype cancelled then.

duface

12 Nov 2019, 00:07

Ellipse wrote:
10 Nov 2019, 16:55
Yes correct sega (as noted earlier blank boards are not going out before printed boards).
So will you be
1. QCing
2. Dye subbing
3. Shipping

Holding shipping for dye subbing doesn't really make sense to me, but I'm personally not really that concerned with lead time anymore. Just curious.

User avatar
wobbled

12 Nov 2019, 16:13

duface wrote:
12 Nov 2019, 00:07
Ellipse wrote:
10 Nov 2019, 16:55
Yes correct sega (as noted earlier blank boards are not going out before printed boards).
So will you be
1. QCing
2. Dye subbing
3. Shipping

Holding shipping for dye subbing doesn't really make sense to me, but I'm personally not really that concerned with lead time anymore. Just curious.
I have already gained grey hairs between placing my order and now, waiting a little more wont hurt

Humanoid

13 Nov 2019, 07:43

wobbled wrote:
12 Nov 2019, 16:13
I have already gained grey hairs between placing my order and now, waiting a little more wont hurt
The most anticipated keyboard in human history.

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wobbled

15 Nov 2019, 14:35

Will single digit serials get their delivery before Christmas Ellipse? I remember getting my hopes up 2 christmases ago.

Ellipse

16 Nov 2019, 23:44

Delivery from the port to me is being scheduled this week!

I have ordered all the final shipping supplies. Poly mailers will be wrapped around the boxes for weather protection during shipping as well as to keep the original product boxes free of shipping labels.

wobbled I would say unfortunately not likely. My goal is to get as many keyboards out as quickly as possible, as long as each one has been thoroughly tested and passes my QC.

All the replacement technology and other parts for the dye sublimation setup will be arriving this week as well. Once I set it up and get things outputting consistent sublimation results, it should take a couple weeks to print the sublimation transfer papers and then I can start mass sublimation.

Again my apologies to all who have been waiting all this time - we are near the finish line but are still a few months away from everyone's order being delivered.

User avatar
Elrick

17 Nov 2019, 01:43

Ellipse wrote:
16 Nov 2019, 23:44
Again my apologies to all who have been waiting all this time - we are near the finish line but are still a few months away from everyone's order being delivered.
So this time, WE will all get our F77's before next Christmas 2020? It's a decent number to abide by.

Hoping this will be the absolute truth......

cods

17 Nov 2019, 07:14

Ellipse wrote:
16 Nov 2019, 23:44
Again my apologies to all who have been waiting all this time - we are near the finish line but are still a few months away from everyone's order being delivered.
All good - make ‘em so they last a lifetime 👍🏼

iamacicada

19 Nov 2019, 17:09

How do I check my order details? I assume I can order as many extras as I want before shipping and it won't affect my order right? Think I ordered blanks but now I want some of them dyesubs too.

Ellipse

20 Nov 2019, 04:31

Below is the proposed factory default function layer for all keyboard variants. Please let me know your feedback:

Now's the time to recommend default function layers and other xwhatsit configurations! I will be loading the firmware and default configuration file to each keyboard during the QC process.
proposed function layer.png
proposed function layer.png (32.79 KiB) Viewed 1451 times
Differences for Split backspace layouts - note the Delete function suggested for two of the three keys
proposed function layer - split backspace.png
proposed function layer - split backspace.png (3.94 KiB) Viewed 1439 times
(iamacicada I sent your order details again over email)

Correct everyone can order extra parts or whole extra keyboards and their spot for everything would remain with their first order.

Yes Elrick I am hoping we get them all out in the next 3-4 months - will be a lot of busy nights and weekends for me!

iamacicada

20 Nov 2019, 06:12

Ellipse I think you have my previous order configuration, I have changed it and updated with you a while ago, I'll find the email and forward it to you.

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depletedvespene

20 Nov 2019, 12:01

Ellipse wrote:
20 Nov 2019, 04:31
Below is the proposed factory default function layer for all keyboard variants. Please let me know your feedback:

Now's the time to recommend default function layers and other xwhatsit configurations!
Ok, so this what I intend to do on the F77:

F77_possible_layout.png
F77 possible layout.
F77_possible_layout.png (41.86 KiB) Viewed 1327 times

- Yes, I'm going with a TIE Enter. Makes sense for a compact keyboard.
- Note the presence of Fn on both sides, so either hand can press it while the other one presses the relevant key.
- Note there's just one Win key, and whisked off to the side, where Fn typically goes. Fn will get much more usage, so...
- The Back Tab and Tab keys are in a darker gray to signify that I intend them to actuate only if pressed in combination with Ctrl and Alt.
- Most of the secondary block's commands are duplicated in the main block's Fn layer so I can still activate them while in "num mode". Num Lock would alternate between it and "nav mode", while Fn+Num Lock would force the selection of the latter.
- Fn+WASD and HJKL for arrows, because Unix does as Unix is.



So, adapting this to an F62 would yield something like this:
F62_possible_layout.png
F62 possible layout.
F62_possible_layout.png (30.44 KiB) Viewed 1327 times

- Num Lock as the corner key doesn't make sense anymore. Put an alpha there, keep the HHKB-backspace, go with a regular ANSI Enter. A 2U Backspace is still, IMNAAHO, unworkable here.
- Turns out only a few commands (volume control) need to be brought in to the main's block Fn layer.



This default-ish layout of mine will undoubtedly continue to evolve with usage.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

20 Nov 2019, 20:07

Xwhatsit is a joy to play around with, on the fly. My Kishsaver has stayed the same layout for years, but I’ve lately converted an AT and been reconfiguring it quite a bit. Xwhatsit’s GUI is superb for that.

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