F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

TerminalJunkie

09 Jan 2020, 11:30

That looks amazing, daijoubu! So exciting to see one with nonblank keys!

I hadn't noticed the black tape on the barrel plate in the pictures that were posted previously. Does it by chance cover an extra hole, and does the PCB have pads there, to allow for an extra 1.25u key with a 5.75u Unicomp spacebar?

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subcat

09 Jan 2020, 13:36

John Doe wrote:
09 Jan 2020, 03:27
subcat wrote:
09 Jan 2020, 02:12
Received shipping information today, 2018/02 order date. super excited!
Was the shipping info from the mail left when placing an order?

I remembered i left email address and reddit account both, but reddit suspended my account permanently for no reason, thats shit.
It went to the email address I originally ordered with, if I understand your question correctly.

John Doe

09 Jan 2020, 14:54

subcat wrote:
09 Jan 2020, 13:36
John Doe wrote:
09 Jan 2020, 03:27
subcat wrote:
09 Jan 2020, 02:12
Received shipping information today, 2018/02 order date. super excited!
Was the shipping info from the mail left when placing an order?

I remembered i left email address and reddit account both, but reddit suspended my account permanently for no reason, thats shit.
It went to the email address I originally ordered with, if I understand your question correctly.
thanks. that's the very what i wanna ask. ;) ;) ;)

kmnov2017

09 Jan 2020, 15:48

daijoubu wrote:
08 Jan 2020, 16:10


I brought my own Model M keys to use temporarily while awaiting for the dye-sub keys to be completed.
Some pictures:

Your lighting makes the industrial grey colour look rather unpleasant....

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Mattr567

09 Jan 2020, 18:36

Patiently awaiting delivery :)

Image
Image

kmnov2017

09 Jan 2020, 19:01

Mattr567 wrote:
09 Jan 2020, 18:36
Patiently awaiting delivery :)
Nice keycaps, what are those btw?

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Nuum

09 Jan 2020, 19:06

Mattr567 wrote:
09 Jan 2020, 18:36
Patiently awaiting delivery :)
Seems like you're missing a 0 from your Numpad? Take an O keycap, looks almost identical!

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Mattr567

09 Jan 2020, 19:28

Nuum wrote:
09 Jan 2020, 19:06
Mattr567 wrote:
09 Jan 2020, 18:36
Patiently awaiting delivery :)
Seems like you're missing a 0 from your Numpad? Take an O keycap, looks almost identical!
I actually don't have a spare, and I'm missing the spacebar too :? Does anyone have an extra?

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zrrion

09 Jan 2020, 19:59

I have a ton of extra Wheelwriter space bars, but somehow no regular ones. I have a few O caps though.

kmnov2017

09 Jan 2020, 20:40

Mattr567 wrote:
09 Jan 2020, 19:28
Nuum wrote:
09 Jan 2020, 19:06
Mattr567 wrote:
09 Jan 2020, 18:36
Patiently awaiting delivery :)
Seems like you're missing a 0 from your Numpad? Take an O keycap, looks almost identical!
I actually don't have a spare, and I'm missing the spacebar too :? Does anyone have an extra?
Ask Ellipse, I am sure he'll throw in a space-bar

User avatar
robo

10 Jan 2020, 00:15

kmnov2017 wrote:
09 Jan 2020, 15:48
daijoubu wrote:
08 Jan 2020, 16:10


I brought my own Model M keys to use temporarily while awaiting for the dye-sub keys to be completed.
Some pictures:

Your lighting makes the industrial grey colour look rather unpleasant....
The white balance definitely seems off in the photos, since the styrofoam should be a pretty pure white, but looks pinkish in the photo. I attempted a white balance correction based on the assumption that the shadows in the styrofoam pockets are neutral grey:
20200107_224544.jpeg
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depletedvespene

10 Jan 2020, 02:41

Nuum wrote:
09 Jan 2020, 19:06
Mattr567 wrote:
09 Jan 2020, 18:36
Patiently awaiting delivery :)
Seems like you're missing a 0 from your Numpad? Take an O keycap, looks almost identical!
Not "almost identical" enough, lemme tell you.

Cust0m Numpad. Check 0ut that zer0.
Cust0m Numpad. Check 0ut that zer0.
Nope.jpg (1.12 MiB) Viewed 2397 times

nickg

10 Jan 2020, 21:33

man those pics of them look so good! I cant wait to type on mine. good thing i looked through my spam box today and found the address verification email lol

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Mattr567

10 Jan 2020, 21:40

My order already shipped so it's too late to just throw in a spacebar. I guess I'll use a tab key just to have something for it till I find one. Still on the hunt!

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Nuum

10 Jan 2020, 22:42

depletedvespene wrote:
10 Jan 2020, 02:41
Not "almost identical" enough, lemme tell you.


Nope.jpg
Better than nothing!
DSCN3902 - Kopie.JPG
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User avatar
0100010

11 Jan 2020, 19:37

The usb cable shield is not grounded to the case on my F62 that just came in. I'd expect ghosting issues like this. The cable is RF choked as well, which I do not need on my F107. I'd suggest a 90 degree usb C connector for the controller, so it's not squished in there.

Image

Ellipse

11 Jan 2020, 21:03

The controllers are grounded to the bottom inner assembly only, which has proven adequate over the past few years of testing.

The ghosting issue was taken care of with the improved debounce filter implemented in DT user Joc's firmware about 3-4 years ago. I have seen no new Model F ghosting with a properly configured xwhatsit with the new firmware. Setting the voltage threshold a few numbers too high results in ghosting or some keys not recognized when pressed. I recommend voltage threshold 122 for all F77's and between 122 and 126 for all F62's. Always click store to EEPROM after adjusting; the auto voltage doesn't work too well for me. For the F62's, start with 126 and if a key in the rightmost or leftmost column of physical keys flickers in the xwhatsit GUI (as opposed to being solid) when a leftmost or rightmost key is pressed down fully, lower the threshold from 126 to 124. If there are still issues, lower to 122. The column skips (columns 9-15 skipped) must be stored to the EEPROM before adjusting the voltage threshold.

Agreed the USB clearance is tight! The choke is probably unnecessary but it didn't add much cost to each cable.

User avatar
0100010

11 Jan 2020, 21:39

Yup, giving it a try as is. Seems to be fine. I just recall having issues with my F107, and having to ensure the usb shield was grounded.

Here's a pic.

Image

Sp33ls

11 Jan 2020, 22:41

They look so nice. Ugh. Can't wait for mine!

But, tell us... How is the typing experience? ;)

clickclack

11 Jan 2020, 23:06

Her Majesty's Customs and Excise finally decided to release my keyboard. Yay!
play-keys.jpg
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Applied the updated firmware with dfu-programmer under Linux and replaced the electrical tape on the space bar stabiliser with heat-shrink tubing and it's purring along nicely.

Looks interesting without a top case:
without-top.jpg
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Last edited by clickclack on 11 Jan 2020, 23:27, edited 1 time in total.

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tentator

11 Jan 2020, 23:13

WOW! that one without top casing.....

clickclack

11 Jan 2020, 23:30

The middle case is really satisfyingly snug fit around the keyboard mechanism. The foam squeezed out the sides of the keyboard locates the case perfectly.

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0100010

12 Jan 2020, 00:36

Sp33ls wrote:
11 Jan 2020, 22:41
They look so nice. Ugh. Can't wait for mine!

But, tell us... How is the typing experience? ;)
It types exactly as expected, meaning like my OG F107, the only difference being you can tell that the springs are new (which is a good thing).

Bonus points that the key mapping was already in place, was expecting to need to define every key.

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darkcruix

12 Jan 2020, 00:53

The more I see the harder it gets to wait ... ;)

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depletedvespene

12 Jan 2020, 00:57

darkcruix wrote:
12 Jan 2020, 00:53
The more I see the harder it gets to wait ... ;)
And the more I wait, the harder it gets to see. :cry:

Ellipse

12 Jan 2020, 05:47

Thanks clickclack and 0100010; glad both of your keyboards arrived safely.

clickclack could you share a photo of your tubing mod of the space bar stabilizer wire? How'd you get the tubing around the wire?

I have just created and posted a quick video of how to open up a Model F keyboard (considered a last resort troubleshooting step). I posted the following in the video description: "Warning! Do not open up your keyboard unless all other troubleshooting steps have been tried. In nearly all cases, an issue can be resolved in much easier ways (removing and re-seating a key, adjusting the spring, replacing a spring) and you do not need to open up the keyboard."

The video is to help someone's new Model F space bar key which seems not to be registering the click but it is making the click sound. The flipper with spring moves freely inside the barrel.

clickclack

12 Jan 2020, 10:56

Spacebar heatshrink mod:

I used some tubing I had lying around with a 3.6 mm unshrunk outside diameter.
tubing.jpg
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After marking the positions of the existing tape (my stabiliser had the original black electrical tape) and removing that tape, I pushed two 10-12 mm long pieces of tubing onto one end of the wire. Squeezing the tubing to flatten it seems to help force it around the first corner. The second corner was easier. I think the tubing catching on the end of the wire makes the first corner trickier.
corner.jpg
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on.jpg
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The stabiliser wire has a diameter of 2 mm and the tubing has a minimum shrunk diameter of 2.5 mm (I believe).
wire.jpg
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After shrinking (with a hobby heatgun in my case), the tubing had a diameter of 2.5 mm. I didn't measure the original tape diameter but I suspect this is not as big. A second layer of tubing added after shrinking the first might help.

I replaced the space bar by guiding the wire in first the following ellipse's fitting video.
fitted.jpg
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The tubed sections fit quite snugly into the wire guides, it sat in the guides comfortably but didn't bind against them). I think the tubing isn't quite as smooth as tape, although it's smoother when shrunk than unshrunk, so it might be best to leave it a little under-thick compared to the tape solution.

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Scarpia

12 Jan 2020, 11:16

Thanks clickclack! I will definitely be doing this mod if mine arrives with electrical tape. I’ve used electrical tape in projects before and I always end up regretting it because the adhesive gives up at the slightest sign of heat, cold, moisture or mechanical stress, leaving the tape curling up and releasing.

daijoubu

12 Jan 2020, 15:36

TerminalJunkie wrote:
09 Jan 2020, 11:30
That looks amazing, daijoubu! So exciting to see one with nonblank keys!

I hadn't noticed the black tape on the barrel plate in the pictures that were posted previously. Does it by chance cover an extra hole, and does the PCB have pads there, to allow for an extra 1.25u key with a 5.75u Unicomp spacebar?
Yes I believe it is a tape that covers an extra hole.
kmnov2017 wrote:
09 Jan 2020, 15:48
daijoubu wrote:
08 Jan 2020, 16:10


I brought my own Model M keys to use temporarily while awaiting for the dye-sub keys to be completed.
Some pictures:

Your lighting makes the industrial grey colour look rather unpleasant....
Apologies for that, the lighting in my hotel room is very yellow, thus screwing with the white balance.
The grey looks pleasant in real life, at least to my eyes :P

Wazrach

12 Jan 2020, 15:44

could we please have another sound test? :D

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