F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

TerminalJunkie

17 Jan 2020, 15:15

tentator, I’ve been very happy with setting up SpaceFn in the OS instead of the keyboard firmware. It has the benefit of working the same with all keyboards, including built-in laptop keyboards.

Karabiner-Element works well on Mac. For Linux there are two options: one hooked into evdev and one patched X input driver.

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XMIT
[ XMIT ]

17 Jan 2020, 15:19

How would you set up SpaceFn on Windows? Someone was asking me this the other day. Not really being a Windows user I had no clue.

I feel like Karabiner-Elements doesn't get enough love. Apple's USB stack is funky. K-E implements a virtual USB device using a kernel driver. Sure, it's perhaps a bit complex compared to other solutions, but it sets the standard.

Can you provide links to the evdev option, and to the patched X driver option? evdev seems cleaner, and is a must for anyone who doesn't want to run X.

TerminalJunkie

17 Jan 2020, 16:43

XMIT, both Linux solutions for SpaceFn are linked in the latter part of the SpaceFn thread on GH: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=51069.350 Ask me again if you can’t find it.

No idea about Windows, I haven’t used it since Windows 95.

dad

17 Jan 2020, 19:26

tentator wrote:
17 Jan 2020, 14:16
think about it like just better and more consistent..
Yes, this old AT Model F is in relatively good condition, but is not 100% consistent: some keys sound/feel not exactly the same as others, and space bar is so...stiff. Still it feels much better than my old Model M.

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XMIT
[ XMIT ]

17 Jan 2020, 19:57

TerminalJunkie wrote:
17 Jan 2020, 16:43
XMIT, both Linux solutions for SpaceFn are linked in the latter part of the SpaceFn thread on GH: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=51069.350 Ask me again if you can’t find it.
For posterity:
http://www.ljosa.com/~ljosa/software/spacefn-xorg/
https://github.com/abrasive/spacefn-evdev

Rauha

17 Jan 2020, 20:21

People who mind customs should not import.
Or the very least not expect their custom fees to be responsibility of the exporter.

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tentator

17 Jan 2020, 23:48

@ellipse: I had do change the wire stabilizer in the end to make it work -> I used one from a Model M I had and with that the space bar works well.. even the sound is decent now.. the one you shipped, not sure if it's only on mine most likely, was bent a little bit too early on the long side of the wire.. so it even slightly touched the alt caps and was just not moving well enough in the clips etc.. the original model m stab is also very much perfectly 90 degrees wire angles and no convexity or so on the edges..

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Cubelia

18 Jan 2020, 05:59

Just unpackaged the good stuff,I must resist drooling when taking the photos!

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Ellipse

18 Jan 2020, 06:30

Great Cubelia, glad your new Model F arrived safely! Hopefully you can test each of the keys/springs and have it up and running soon.

Everyone please do post some updates on your new arrivals if you don't mind, even if everything is working so far! I have sent out 76 of these keyboards to date and have only heard from a handful of you.

Thanks for the update tentator - I will try to keep improving my wire stabilizer QC.

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DMA

18 Jan 2020, 11:25

XMIT wrote:
17 Jan 2020, 15:19
How would you set up SpaceFn on Windows? Someone was asking me this the other day. Not really being a Windows user I had no clue.
One word: AHK.

Also macros were fixed EONS ago.

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tentator

18 Jan 2020, 13:45

Hi DMA!
I've space-fn in firmware in all my keyboards a part from model Fs and beamsprings so it would be much better to have it in xwhatsit or commonsense and not need to think about os etc. I also do a lot of keyboard rotation.
Do you plan to fix the tap macro in commonsense? I see it in the macro drop down in the GUI but it never worked.. I'd consider swapping the xwhatsit with a commonsense if that's going to be the case.
Other than this i agree that ahk is probably one of the best pieces of windows sw there is! In linux you can't do something as flexible as that, especially if you want to combine it with mouse controlling..

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DMA

18 Jan 2020, 22:43

tentator wrote:
18 Jan 2020, 13:45
Hi DMA!
I've space-fn in firmware in all my keyboards a part from model Fs and beamsprings so it would be much better to have it in xwhatsit or commonsense and not need to think about os etc. I also do a lot of keyboard rotation.
Do you plan to fix the tap macro in commonsense? I see it in the macro drop down in the GUI but it never worked.. I'd consider swapping the xwhatsit with a commonsense if that's going to be the case.
That thing is in trunk since June.

"John, buy a fucking lottery ticket."

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tentator

18 Jan 2020, 23:11

DMA wrote:
18 Jan 2020, 22:43

That thing is in trunk since June.
are you saying you fixed it? But I'm using latest fw.. will try again wait..

Also the sentence were you say "So you couldn't use space for Fn" does not sound reassuring..

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Elrick

19 Jan 2020, 01:26

Cubelia wrote:
18 Jan 2020, 05:59
Just unpackaged the good stuff,I must resist drooling when taking the photos!

Image
Yes indeed, a huge puddle of drool is worthy for this keyboard release.

Drool away cheerfully :D .

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DMA

19 Jan 2020, 06:00

tentator wrote:
18 Jan 2020, 23:11
Also the sentence were you say "So you couldn't use space for Fn" does not sound reassuring..
How about "So, now those are fixed", 5 lines down the page? :D

trojankid5

19 Jan 2020, 17:31

Elrick wrote:
19 Jan 2020, 01:26
Cubelia wrote:
18 Jan 2020, 05:59
Just unpackaged the good stuff,I must resist drooling when taking the photos!

Image
Yes indeed, a huge puddle of drool is worthy for this keyboard release.

Drool away cheerfully :D .
how long did it take yours to arrive

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Cubelia

19 Jan 2020, 17:52

trojankid5 wrote:
19 Jan 2020, 17:31
how long did it take yours to arrive
From the email notification to package arriving at my doorstep,11 days.

=
The keyboard is up and running!

The only 3 problems I encountered with the keyboard are:
1.Left shift doesn't seat properly and no clicks. Reseating multiple times fixed it.(another keycap also came off when I unpackaged the keyboard)
2."," doesn't register reliably. Adjusting the voltage threshold to 120 fixed this.

3.
Solved,just remap the same Fn key at the target layer.
An interesting behavior with specific Fn key position and combination of keys,not sure if this was a firmware bug or not.
Assigning specific keys(e.g. 2,1 and 4,8 on F77 matrix in the ibm-capsense GUI,which are the two 1U keys at the bottom,there seems to be more that are affected by this) into an Fn key(which enables a layer). Pressing Fn+ "~" or some other keys will cause the key to spam like crazy. I discovered this while trying to type "~" after I remapped the Fn key to 4,8. Assigning it to Shift instead of Fn doesn't seem to have this issue.

I flashed debounce threshold 6 or 11 firmware and the behavior still persists.
If you're experimenting with this,I suggest opening IBM-capsense utility in advance so you can use "Emergency halt" in case if the app you're typing on stops responding after spamming the bugged combination for multiple times.
Last edited by Cubelia on 20 Jan 2020, 05:40, edited 1 time in total.

clickclack

19 Jan 2020, 22:13

Cubella, have you tried adding the Fn key mapping on the 'target' layer of the Layer Condition as well as on the Base Layer?

I had the same spamming problem and setting Layer 1's mapping to be the same key seems to solve it (although after doing that it seems to still work even if I remove the Layer 1 mapping, hmm).

The ibm-capsense-usb manual's section on Layer selection has (section 7.1.1):

o Fn keys are also recognised on subsequent layers; this means you will probably want to choose the same Fn key in the same place on the layer that will be selected when that Fn key is pressed; otherwise the keyboard will rapidly flick between two layers

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Cubelia

20 Jan 2020, 05:37

clickclack wrote:
19 Jan 2020, 22:13
Cubella, have you tried adding the Fn key mapping on the 'target' layer of the Layer Condition as well as on the Base Layer?

I had the same spamming problem and setting Layer 1's mapping to be the same key seems to solve it (although after doing that it seems to still work even if I remove the Layer 1 mapping, hmm).

The ibm-capsense-usb manual's section on Layer selection has (section 7.1.1):

o Fn keys are also recognised on subsequent layers; this means you will probably want to choose the same Fn key in the same place on the layer that will be selected when that Fn key is pressed; otherwise the keyboard will rapidly flick between two layers
Oops,my bad. This should be it,thanks!

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wobbled

20 Jan 2020, 10:58

Mines out for delivery and I'm stuck at work! Fml :twisted:

Ellipse

20 Jan 2020, 18:00

A GH member posted Notch's video tweet of him using the new Model F!

https://twitter.com/notch/status/1219298173186904072

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E3E

20 Jan 2020, 19:13

Billionaire hands

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JP!

20 Jan 2020, 19:25

Image

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wobbled

20 Jan 2020, 20:14

Thanks ellipse, the board arrived today. Absolutely flawless, fucking love it!
Gonna need to add in my black keys soon so it isn't all SSK Blue, but it's staying like this for the time being.
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subcat

21 Jan 2020, 01:46

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Thanks Ellipse, i received mine today. While my unit also has the strange line on the case, everything else is very well done. Feel and sound are astoundingly close to the original. One difficultly I had was with my spacebar, which felt a bit slow to return. I was able to reseat it, but it took several tries because my spacebar switch has its spring slightly off centre. During this the keyboard (which was plugged in) stopped working and I had to restart my pc for it to come back.

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Overall i’m very impressed with this product - if i were to nitpick the finish gets a bit dodgy between the two halves of the housing, which i don’t remember being the case on my F107, but it doesn’t really matter. A great success overall. Cheers Ellipse :)

Ellipse

21 Jan 2020, 04:01

Great, subcat and wobbled, glad your keyboards are up and running. Yes as noted before, every case will have the extra line on the right side and the finish is not perfect to today's standards. For me the space bar is the trickiest key to re-seat properly. Small variances in the stabilizer wire bend can make a big difference in performance.

subcat what kind of mat is that? Is it an ergonomic mat?

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subcat

21 Jan 2020, 05:57

Ellipse wrote:
21 Jan 2020, 04:01
Great, subcat and wobbled, glad your keyboards are up and running. Yes as noted before, every case will have the extra line on the right side and the finish is not perfect to today's standards. For me the space bar is the trickiest key to re-seat properly. Small variances in the stabilizer wire bend can make a big difference in performance.

subcat what kind of mat is that? Is it an ergonomic mat?
Yeah it feels great now that I was able to get it worked out :D the mat is just a cherry deskmat i got from Korea, it has switch patents on it.

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Cubelia

21 Jan 2020, 16:45

My 90 degree USB Micro B male to USB Type-C female cable just came in,that's what I call perfection!

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If you're interested in getting this kind of adapter,always remember to double check the product information and your target header as Micro B header is directional.(or your adapter may went with the opposite direction)

consensual-penis

21 Jan 2020, 20:26

I really hope my board ships out before I move, I really don't want to deal with that headache

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0100010

22 Jan 2020, 03:09

I moved between ordering and it getting built, address change was one email to Ellipse.

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