F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

OxC0FFEE

20 Aug 2020, 15:24

Ellipse wrote:
19 Aug 2020, 18:01
Interest check: ultra durable modern style powdercoating for classic zinc and/or compact aluminum cases?
Count me in for modern powder coat on my F77 zinc case please Joe.
Last edited by OxC0FFEE on 20 Aug 2020, 17:41, edited 1 time in total.

OxC0FFEE

20 Aug 2020, 15:26

Zcool31 wrote:
20 Aug 2020, 15:07
Fixed the keycap shape. The spacebar now has the proper hump.
render_new2_small.png
Gorgeous cel shading. True keyboard porn.

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darkcruix

20 Aug 2020, 15:30

Zcool31 wrote:
20 Aug 2020, 15:07
Fixed the keycap shape. The spacebar now has the proper hump.
render_new2_small.png
Can I use it in the manual and if so, can I get a high resolution version of it? :)

Zcool31

20 Aug 2020, 16:43

render_new2_big.png
render_new2_big.png (1.37 MiB) Viewed 1249 times
Just mention me somewhere in the list of contributors in very small text.

Also, tell me if you want other angles/POV or tweaks to the contrast or line thickness.

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darkcruix

20 Aug 2020, 17:29

Zcool31 wrote:
20 Aug 2020, 16:43
...
Just mention me somewhere in the list of contributors in very small text.
Also, tell me if you want other angles/POV or tweaks to the contrast or line thickness.
For now I have just added it to the second page for checking out the look and feel. http://www.linux-tin.org/ModelFManual.pdf
Can you create it with slightly thicker lines and maybe the background as alpha channel? I can imagine it would look great as the cover picture somewhere.

OxC0FFEE

20 Aug 2020, 17:45

darkcruix wrote:
20 Aug 2020, 17:29
Zcool31 wrote:
20 Aug 2020, 16:43
...
Just mention me somewhere in the list of contributors in very small text.
Also, tell me if you want other angles/POV or tweaks to the contrast or line thickness.
For now I have just added it to the second page for checking out the look and feel. http://www.linux-tin.org/ModelFManual.pdf
Can you create it with slightly thicker lines and maybe the background as alpha channel? I can imagine it would look great as the cover picture somewhere.
A second on the alpha channel, please. I would love more angles and versions. I may make an album of desktop images of these with halftone dots in the background, comic style.

Zcool31

20 Aug 2020, 18:55

Ask and receive.
render_new4_alpha.png
render_new4_alpha.png (1.75 MiB) Viewed 1184 times

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darkcruix

20 Aug 2020, 19:08

http://www.linux-tin.org/ModelFManual.pdf... and the update is out there ... I like it a lot

Zcool31

20 Aug 2020, 19:22

render_new5_alpha.png
render_new5_alpha.png (1.26 MiB) Viewed 1169 times
Instead of putting my name right there, maybe have a page at the end. like

Special thanks to:
Ellipse
darkcruix
...
Zcool31

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darkcruix

20 Aug 2020, 19:24

Zcool31 wrote:
20 Aug 2020, 19:22
Instead of putting my name right there, maybe have a page at the end. like

Special thanks to:
Ellipse
darkcruix
...
Zcool31
I have planned for that when I have the manual in a format, which is presentable. For now it is just work in progress. After all, I think the text on the top right just looks professional ... :lol:

Unicorn

20 Aug 2020, 23:01

I'd also be interested in the more durable powder coat finish (I'd happily pay more for it). I placed my order over a month ago. If this becomes an option, would it be possible to upgrade my existing order?
Ellipse wrote:
19 Aug 2020, 18:01
Thanks darkcruix for your update on the case powdercoating and on the Model F manual.

Interest check: ultra durable modern style powdercoating for classic zinc and/or compact aluminum cases?

Just to show everyone how far powdercoating has come: here's a video of me taking the end of a screwdriver and trying to damage these samples. Only the faintest of marks was left on these cases.

I am wondering if anyone would be interested in tough coatings for the final round. I am planning on switching at least the compact cases to the tough powdercoating instead of the anodizing. The appearance is great for both of them and the powdercoating is far more durable than anodizing. You'll still be able to get the classic powdercoating no matter what, as a possible option for the classic style cases.
Great keyboard setup ro0llo!

Ellipse

21 Aug 2020, 04:39

Unicorn all classic case orders will be with the original style powdercoating.

The new powdercoating is not available to order and to keep things simple, I will only consider the alternative powdercoating maybe towards the end of the final round and will not be offering upgrades.

latemodel24

21 Aug 2020, 06:30

Do you know what the name of the grey is so I could maybe could have my soon to be f77 case sent off and powercoated then in that color.

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Elrick

21 Aug 2020, 07:07

Ellipse wrote:
21 Aug 2020, 04:39
I will only consider the alternative powdercoating maybe towards the end of the final round and will not be offering upgrades.
Great to know, thanks.

Ellipse

21 Aug 2020, 19:54

latemodel24 wrote:
21 Aug 2020, 06:30
Do you know what the name of the grey is so I could maybe could have my soon to be f77 case sent off and powercoated then in that color.
The paint was custom mixed from an original Industrial SSK case part mailed to China. You can take an Industrial Gray case to a paint store and they can match the color.

kmnov2017

21 Aug 2020, 21:45

latemodel24 wrote:
21 Aug 2020, 06:30
Do you know what the name of the grey is so I could maybe could have my soon to be f77 case sent off and powercoated then in that color.
RAL7030 is a close match....

Zcool31

21 Aug 2020, 22:53

Now in 60% size:
render_60_alpha2.png
render_60_alpha2.png (424.42 KiB) Viewed 857 times
Also I can finally control the line thickness in proportion to resolution, so scaling pictures up won't result in thin-looking lines.
Next step - orthographic projection.

Some places where my guesses are particularly bad are the radius of the back plate, and the angle of the key cap. That is, suppose I somehow flattened the back plate and barrel plate. What would be the angle between the top of the keycap and the table upon which my now flat barrel plate lays?

Admiral

22 Aug 2020, 02:22

I am testing out my new Model F 77 and when testing the N-Key rollover I noticed that it's only allowing me to press 6 keys at once instead of n keys like on my F62s. Is it due to the QMK Software? I am pretty sure my older keyboards are on the older ibm capsense software or whatever it is called.

Also for the life of me I can't seem to get my left shift key to stop unbinding even when I try to reseat my key.

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darkcruix

22 Aug 2020, 11:56

Admiral wrote:
22 Aug 2020, 02:22
I am testing out my new Model F 77 and when testing the N-Key rollover I noticed that it's only allowing me to press 6 keys at once instead of n keys like on my F62s. Is it due to the QMK Software? I am pretty sure my older keyboards are on the older ibm capsense software or whatever it is called.

Also for the life of me I can't seem to get my left shift key to stop unbinding even when I try to reseat my key.
I also see this - with QMK I have a 6-key rollover

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darkcruix

22 Aug 2020, 11:59

Zcool31 wrote:
21 Aug 2020, 22:53
Now in 60% size:
render_60_alpha2.png

Also I can finally control the line thickness in proportion to resolution, so scaling pictures up won't result in thin-looking lines.
Next step - orthographic projection.

Some places where my guesses are particularly bad are the radius of the back plate, and the angle of the key cap. That is, suppose I somehow flattened the back plate and barrel plate. What would be the angle between the top of the keycap and the table upon which my now flat barrel plate lays?
Can you do a F77 in the angle of the latest F62?

Zcool31

22 Aug 2020, 21:41

darkcruix wrote:
22 Aug 2020, 11:59
Can you do a F77 in the angle of the latest F62?
Yes.
render_77_alpha.png
render_77_alpha.png (532.81 KiB) Viewed 616 times

Admiral

22 Aug 2020, 21:56

darkcruix wrote:
22 Aug 2020, 11:56
Admiral wrote:
22 Aug 2020, 02:22
I am testing out my new Model F 77 and when testing the N-Key rollover I noticed that it's only allowing me to press 6 keys at once instead of n keys like on my F62s. Is it due to the QMK Software? I am pretty sure my older keyboards are on the older ibm capsense software or whatever it is called.

Also for the life of me I can't seem to get my left shift key to stop unbinding even when I try to reseat my key.
I also see this - with QMK I have a 6-key rollover
Cool glad we kinda narrowed that down. Luckily I don't really have a need for N-Key rollover but hopefully Ellipse is aware.

And by the way those drawings everyone is doing are looking great.

And man I just love typing on these Model F keyboards so much. I cannot wait for the keycaps with the legends. I am awful at touch typing.

I'd say my only nitpick with my F77 is the powder coating seems a bit splotchier compared to my F62. Not really sure if it needed an extra coat or what it was, but I guess it kind of gives the keyboard some character being a bit different. By the way both of these cases are a beige color so maybe that is why I notice it a bit more.

Ellipse

23 Aug 2020, 04:22

Those making the line art type renderings - feel free to work with the newer photos from this album. The renderings have stepped keys from the prototypes while the new Model F's do not have those keys stepped.

https://imgur.com/a/gw8FOl0

Zcool31

23 Aug 2020, 04:45

:( I want stepped caps-lock and right shift though!

Orthographic projection:
render_77_alpha2.png
render_77_alpha2.png (298.93 KiB) Viewed 527 times
Which shading style do you like better, this one, or the one I used there?
Zcool31 wrote:
22 Aug 2020, 21:41
Picture

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tentator

23 Aug 2020, 08:36

You can configure n-key rollover in qmk.. It's disabled by default to make keyboards compatible also with older BIOSes.. But I agree that it does not make much sense as a default...

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darkcruix

23 Aug 2020, 11:54

Zcool31 wrote:
23 Aug 2020, 04:45
:( I want stepped caps-lock and right shift though!

Orthographic projection:
render_77_alpha2.png

Which shading style do you like better, this one, or the one I used there?
Zcool31 wrote:
22 Aug 2020, 21:41
Picture
Wow - that is hugely useful for key layout descriptions (ANSI / ISO & split keys). I am also working on the "num-pad" on the F77 to explain the options. Using a zoom-out view like shown here at e.g. page 26: https://ibm.retropc.se/manuals/IBM_5150 ... _AUG81.pdf could be a wonderful addition.

Zcool31

23 Aug 2020, 16:43

darkcruix wrote:
23 Aug 2020, 11:54
Wow - that is hugely useful for key layout descriptions (ANSI / ISO & split keys). I am also working on the "num-pad" on the F77 to explain the options. Using a zoom-out view like shown here at e.g. page 26: https://ibm.retropc.se/manuals/IBM_5150 ... _AUG81.pdf could be a wonderful addition.
That document doesn't have page numbers. PDF-page-26 has "Setup 2-10" in the bottom left corner.
Did you mean something like "BASIC Keyboard Usage" on page "Keyboard 3-1"?

Also, that documentation is amazing. Simple, detailed. No wonder IBM PCs became so popular.

User avatar
darkcruix

23 Aug 2020, 17:21

Zcool31 wrote:
23 Aug 2020, 16:43
...
That document doesn't have page numbers. PDF-page-26 has "Setup 2-10" in the bottom left corner.
Did you mean something like "BASIC Keyboard Usage" on page "Keyboard 3-1"?
...
I meant something like the one attached here. A full picture, with a magnifying circle on the num-pad (which I already updated in the manual):
sample.png
sample.png (206.31 KiB) Viewed 277 times
Last edited by darkcruix on 24 Aug 2020, 17:11, edited 2 times in total.

BucklingSprings

23 Aug 2020, 19:06

darkcruix wrote:
20 Aug 2020, 17:29
Zcool31 wrote:
20 Aug 2020, 16:43
...
Just mention me somewhere in the list of contributors in very small text.
Also, tell me if you want other angles/POV or tweaks to the contrast or line thickness.
For now I have just added it to the second page for checking out the look and feel. http://www.linux-tin.org/ModelFManual.pdf
Can you create it with slightly thicker lines and maybe the background as alpha channel? I can imagine it would look great as the cover picture somewhere.
I just browsed through this manual. It is _excellent_ - giving the reader a lot of background
knowledge (even historic background knowledge). Bravo, seeing the start of such an in-depth
brochure is refreshing. It feels like the early 70's and early 80's where the product manuals
really explained something.

I think that the brochure should show all the standard modifier keys of the various keyboard
layouts available. On Ellipses project website it can be found - but I would have wished for
this information to be more "direct in my face".

Honestly: I picked the HHKB layout with split right-shift key because I was _guessing_ that
this probably leaves me the most options. I guessed because at the time I simply did not find
the exact layout options on Ellipses page.

@Ellipse: perhaps other people have trouble too finding this. Maybe worth a thought to make
your site easier to navigate.

BucklingSprings

23 Aug 2020, 19:22

One thing that has been driving me angry with other keyboards (Unicomp, Matias) was that, after a few weeks
of intensive use, key chatter started to occur. My Unicomp sometimes chatters on 'M' key presses and the
Matias for the 'J' key. Nothing tooooo bad - but it is aggravating if it happens twice in a row.

After more than 10 weeks of intense use, my F77 has no such problem. And even _if_ such a problem
developed, I am not helpless because it is maintainable - both its software and its hardware.

I am still happy having ordered it. One of the best buying decisions I have made in a long while. Its like
buying quality glasses. They are resting on my nose for the better part of my life - worth spending a little
more to get something good and enjoyable. Life is short - treat yourself to something good where it really
counts.

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