IBM 5100 find
- inmbolmie
- Location: Spain
- Main keyboard: Model M SSK
- Main mouse: Some random Logitech
- Favorite switch: Buckling Spring
- DT Pro Member: 0230
- Contact:
This is a recent awesome "barn find". An IBM 5100 with its matching IBM 5103 printer. At last a laptop with a proper keyboard! but you will need a very strong lap by the way as this thing weights some 23Kg . The printer is simillary weighted.
It is a spanish machine, but the only localized parts are the front panel switch legends, that is a good thing because localized Beam Spring keycaps are usually of a lower quality than the standard keycaps. It is a 32K RAM and BASIC only machine. With 32K the 5100 cost about $13.000 in its day or $62.000 adjusted for inflation. No idea of the printer cost but I imagine it was also substantial.
Has very nice "nuclear white" keycaps with BASIC sublegends. A few of them have scratches and some stems are bent, but nothing terrible. Contamination shield is disintegrated but no evidence of rust whatsoever, contrary to other Beam Spring keyboards the top plate seems to be made of aluminium, so not even a single trace of rust is visible from the top. Keyfeel is great, even by Beam Spring standard, the sound is very bassy as could be expected with the keyboard mounted in such a massive metal chassis.
The good news is that it seems to be almost complete, rust free and only lacking two keys (CMD and left shift) and the BASIC reference card. It came also with a rotten storage tape I doubt I can get anything from.
The bad news is that the working status is unknown after so many years badly stored. I will take some time checking the AC wiring, power supply, capacitors etc. before proper testing can begin. If anything important is broken inside I will have a very bad time fixing it.
To be continued if anything interesting comes from the restoration.
It is a spanish machine, but the only localized parts are the front panel switch legends, that is a good thing because localized Beam Spring keycaps are usually of a lower quality than the standard keycaps. It is a 32K RAM and BASIC only machine. With 32K the 5100 cost about $13.000 in its day or $62.000 adjusted for inflation. No idea of the printer cost but I imagine it was also substantial.
Has very nice "nuclear white" keycaps with BASIC sublegends. A few of them have scratches and some stems are bent, but nothing terrible. Contamination shield is disintegrated but no evidence of rust whatsoever, contrary to other Beam Spring keyboards the top plate seems to be made of aluminium, so not even a single trace of rust is visible from the top. Keyfeel is great, even by Beam Spring standard, the sound is very bassy as could be expected with the keyboard mounted in such a massive metal chassis.
The good news is that it seems to be almost complete, rust free and only lacking two keys (CMD and left shift) and the BASIC reference card. It came also with a rotten storage tape I doubt I can get anything from.
The bad news is that the working status is unknown after so many years badly stored. I will take some time checking the AC wiring, power supply, capacitors etc. before proper testing can begin. If anything important is broken inside I will have a very bad time fixing it.
To be continued if anything interesting comes from the restoration.
- SneakyRobb
- THINK
- Location: Canada
- Main keyboard: KB-5161A, F122, Dc2014, Typeheaven, Beamspring FXT
- Main mouse: MX518 Legendary
- DT Pro Member: 0242
Wow! Top tier. NICE FIND. Looking forward to this!
Very interesting that top aluminium plate. I wonder if the fact it was portable meant they tried to save weight, notwithstanding that 24kg size
Very interesting that top aluminium plate. I wonder if the fact it was portable meant they tried to save weight, notwithstanding that 24kg size
- Bass
- Location: United States
- Main keyboard: IBM Model F104 "Unsaver"
- Main mouse: Logitech G9x
- Favorite switch: Beamspring / Capacitive Buckling Spring
- DT Pro Member: 0206
That 5100 of yours looks to be in pretty good shape considering it's a barn house find. I suggest wearing gloves when you begin your restoration as the foam underneath the card cage will most likely have turned into a nasty puddle of tar that can be very difficult to wash off.
Good luck on the restoration. A few others here (snuci and I) have also found and restored some 5100's but were unable to get them working. The ROS cards are especially prone to failure, so it would indeed be very impressive if you can get yours to work!
Good luck on the restoration. A few others here (snuci and I) have also found and restored some 5100's but were unable to get them working. The ROS cards are especially prone to failure, so it would indeed be very impressive if you can get yours to work!
- Redmaus
- Gotta start somewhere
- Location: Near Dallas, Texas
- Main keyboard: Unsaver | 3276 | Kingsaver
- Main mouse: Kensington Slimblade
- Favorite switch: Capacitative Buckling Spring
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
where can I find these "barns" lol
also great find
also great find
- inmbolmie
- Location: Spain
- Main keyboard: Model M SSK
- Main mouse: Some random Logitech
- Favorite switch: Buckling Spring
- DT Pro Member: 0230
- Contact:
For the missing keycaps I've thought about making reproductions. The left shift is easy as it is the same as the right shift. For the "CMD" I think it is the same mould than the 5251 "Enter" key but rotated 180 degrees, I have to take some measurements to check that.
-
- Location: UK
- Main keyboard: Filco ZERO green alps, Model F 122 Terminal
- Main mouse: Ducky Secret / Roller Mouse Pro 1
- Favorite switch: MX Mount Topre / Model F Buckling
- DT Pro Member: 0167
That is amazing. That thing is just built to insane standards, we simply do not get anything made to that standard any more.
- inmbolmie
- Location: Spain
- Main keyboard: Model M SSK
- Main mouse: Some random Logitech
- Favorite switch: Buckling Spring
- DT Pro Member: 0230
- Contact:
- inmbolmie
- Location: Spain
- Main keyboard: Model M SSK
- Main mouse: Some random Logitech
- Favorite switch: Buckling Spring
- DT Pro Member: 0230
- Contact:
As you said it seems there is something wrong and it points to the ROS board. I've checked the AC circuits, power supply, display connections, buses, etc, everything is OK but doesn't boot. In this site the author explains that booting the machine halted with the SHOW REGISTERS mode enabled you should see in the screen the contents of the first 512 bytes of executable ROS like this:Bass wrote: ↑20 Jan 2020, 00:18That 5100 of yours looks to be in pretty good shape considering it's a barn house find. I suggest wearing gloves when you begin your restoration as the foam underneath the card cage will most likely have turned into a nasty puddle of tar that can be very difficult to wash off.
Good luck on the restoration. A few others here (snuci and I) have also found and restored some 5100's but were unable to get them working. The ROS cards are especially prone to failure, so it would indeed be very impressive if you can get yours to work!
But in my case I can see only this:
I'll investigate a bit deeper into the issue. That keyboard deserves a second opportunity.
- inmbolmie
- Location: Spain
- Main keyboard: Model M SSK
- Main mouse: Some random Logitech
- Favorite switch: Buckling Spring
- DT Pro Member: 0230
- Contact:
Well, after all it wasn't the ROS the bad component causing the issues. The screen capture with supposedly ROS data that I post wasn't really the right one, the correct is this:Bass wrote: ↑20 Jan 2020, 00:18That 5100 of yours looks to be in pretty good shape considering it's a barn house find. I suggest wearing gloves when you begin your restoration as the foam underneath the card cage will most likely have turned into a nasty puddle of tar that can be very difficult to wash off.
Good luck on the restoration. A few others here (snuci and I) have also found and restored some 5100's but were unable to get them working. The ROS cards are especially prone to failure, so it would indeed be very impressive if you can get yours to work!
Spoiler:
Then finally detected the real problem: Someone tinkering inside the computer prior to me left this blue jumper cable broken:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
The BASIC prompt, so... It works! But the keyboard doesn't. So now It's time for some keyboard action .
- ZedTheMan
- Location: Central US
- Main keyboard: IModel F77/IBM 3101/Omnikey 102/96Kee
- Main mouse: Logitech G430/Logitech M570/Kensington Expert
- Favorite switch: Beamsprings. Alps SKCM Blue, Capacitive Buckling S
- DT Pro Member: 0219
Oh man, it's like the entirety of the thread before this was just foreplay, haha.
- Bass
- Location: United States
- Main keyboard: IBM Model F104 "Unsaver"
- Main mouse: Logitech G9x
- Favorite switch: Beamspring / Capacitive Buckling Spring
- DT Pro Member: 0206
Congrats man! I could be wrong but I don't think you'll have much trouble diagnosing your keyboard problem unless there is physical damage somewhere. It's quite easy to remove from the rest of the machine and can then be disassembled just like any other beamspring.
- inmbolmie
- Location: Spain
- Main keyboard: Model M SSK
- Main mouse: Some random Logitech
- Favorite switch: Buckling Spring
- DT Pro Member: 0230
- Contact:
Let's get to it. First some images in its original unrestored state.
One weird thing is that the back plate is made of plastic instead of metal. It's like after committing to a zinc-cast chassis for the computer they suddenly developed some kind of weight-consciousness when finally adding the keyboard.
Keycaps off!
Derusting bath for the spacebar stabilicer.
Now we go for the creepy part, there is a ton of grime inside this thing. It's unbeliebable how good this keyboard feels giving the amount of crap that it has inside.
Closeup over THAT FOAM.
Holy crap!!!! What's THAT THING inside the keyboard . It looks to me like some kind of alien microscopic civilization from planet Krypton. This is when I started worrying and got some gloves and masks for the rest of the restoration.
After annihilating the poor things, the worst part came, removing that yellow residue took an entire can of glue remover and 3 hours of scrubbing.
Now the switches, there was only 3 casualties, one bent stem, one dislodged flyplate and one broken slider arm. All easily fixed. The broken slider was fixed with some superglue.
Final result for the cleaned parts.
Cutting some new foam.
One thing I wasn't aware of, it seems that this particular beam spring has a symmetrical stem. Here compared with a regular sloped stem.
The aluminium top plate is pretty light, weighting only 220 grams.
The keyboard with switches in place. I applied some PTFE dry lube to the sliders for extra smoothness.
The whole assembly without caps weights only 1,32 Kg. Or approx. two and a half apple aluminum keyboards in Standard Chyros Units (SCU).
Testing it before putting keycaps in, everything working now.
Posing next to a distant relative.
The space where the keyboard goes inside the case.
Keyboard installed and working.
Next step will be creating reproductions for the missing keycaps. This is going to take some time because It's a first for me.
And also try to make the tape unit work. When I started with this project I thought that I would have for sure to replace the DC motor rubber band... But why using a DC motor and rubber band when you can use an AC motor and a frikkin' transmision belt?
This thing is definitively built like a truck.
Spoiler:
One weird thing is that the back plate is made of plastic instead of metal. It's like after committing to a zinc-cast chassis for the computer they suddenly developed some kind of weight-consciousness when finally adding the keyboard.
Spoiler:
Keycaps off!
Spoiler:
Derusting bath for the spacebar stabilicer.
Spoiler:
Now we go for the creepy part, there is a ton of grime inside this thing. It's unbeliebable how good this keyboard feels giving the amount of crap that it has inside.
Spoiler:
Closeup over THAT FOAM.
Spoiler:
Holy crap!!!! What's THAT THING inside the keyboard . It looks to me like some kind of alien microscopic civilization from planet Krypton. This is when I started worrying and got some gloves and masks for the rest of the restoration.
After annihilating the poor things, the worst part came, removing that yellow residue took an entire can of glue remover and 3 hours of scrubbing.
Spoiler:
Now the switches, there was only 3 casualties, one bent stem, one dislodged flyplate and one broken slider arm. All easily fixed. The broken slider was fixed with some superglue.
Spoiler:
Final result for the cleaned parts.
Spoiler:
Cutting some new foam.
Spoiler:
One thing I wasn't aware of, it seems that this particular beam spring has a symmetrical stem. Here compared with a regular sloped stem.
Spoiler:
The aluminium top plate is pretty light, weighting only 220 grams.
Spoiler:
The keyboard with switches in place. I applied some PTFE dry lube to the sliders for extra smoothness.
Spoiler:
The whole assembly without caps weights only 1,32 Kg. Or approx. two and a half apple aluminum keyboards in Standard Chyros Units (SCU).
Spoiler:
Testing it before putting keycaps in, everything working now.
Spoiler:
Posing next to a distant relative.
Spoiler:
The space where the keyboard goes inside the case.
Spoiler:
Keyboard installed and working.
Next step will be creating reproductions for the missing keycaps. This is going to take some time because It's a first for me.
And also try to make the tape unit work. When I started with this project I thought that I would have for sure to replace the DC motor rubber band... But why using a DC motor and rubber band when you can use an AC motor and a frikkin' transmision belt?
Spoiler:
This thing is definitively built like a truck.
- SneakyRobb
- THINK
- Location: Canada
- Main keyboard: KB-5161A, F122, Dc2014, Typeheaven, Beamspring FXT
- Main mouse: MX518 Legendary
- DT Pro Member: 0242
Aluminium barrel plate, plastic backplate. Very interesting. That foam does look like some kind of moss collection as well. That plate is actually quite aesthetic tbh. Well done.
That weight is Actually shocking.
Absolute madman lubricating beamsprings!
That weight is Actually shocking.
-
- Location: Sweden
- DT Pro Member: -
Great find and nice detailed pictures!
I've modeled, printed and resin cast beamspring caps so I could potentially help you out with that, here are some thoughts:
I assume both your shift keys have identical stem placements, is that right?
I'd happily cast a copy for you for the cost of materials, but I only have the 3278 and Selectric sets so you'd have to send it. There's of course the risk of it getting lost in transit, I'm not sure I'd do it myself. Perhaps you could find someone local to do a 1:1 copy.
I could use my non-stepped 1.25 and 1.5u shift keys, but those would leave a gap and wouldn't be a great match.
A selectric 2u shift is probably the closest, the edges could be filed to 1.75u.
Is the CMD key unique to this series? I'd think a flipped 5251/displaywriter return key would be the closest fit but I don't have any of those either. If anyone does and is ok with sending it I'd happily cast a copy of it.
I recently made resin copies of SLA prints which turned out great, that's also an option for prints based on 3d scanned or modeled originals.
I don't have any real experience with the durability and longevity of more expensive SLA/SLS prints but my cheap ones yellowed significantly within a year, resin casting also allows for closer color matching.
Hope this helps
I've modeled, printed and resin cast beamspring caps so I could potentially help you out with that, here are some thoughts:
I assume both your shift keys have identical stem placements, is that right?
I'd happily cast a copy for you for the cost of materials, but I only have the 3278 and Selectric sets so you'd have to send it. There's of course the risk of it getting lost in transit, I'm not sure I'd do it myself. Perhaps you could find someone local to do a 1:1 copy.
I could use my non-stepped 1.25 and 1.5u shift keys, but those would leave a gap and wouldn't be a great match.
A selectric 2u shift is probably the closest, the edges could be filed to 1.75u.
Is the CMD key unique to this series? I'd think a flipped 5251/displaywriter return key would be the closest fit but I don't have any of those either. If anyone does and is ok with sending it I'd happily cast a copy of it.
I recently made resin copies of SLA prints which turned out great, that's also an option for prints based on 3d scanned or modeled originals.
I don't have any real experience with the durability and longevity of more expensive SLA/SLS prints but my cheap ones yellowed significantly within a year, resin casting also allows for closer color matching.
Hope this helps
- inmbolmie
- Location: Spain
- Main keyboard: Model M SSK
- Main mouse: Some random Logitech
- Favorite switch: Buckling Spring
- DT Pro Member: 0230
- Contact:
Thanks for your support, I have been for some time thinking about trying to cast some keycaps and this is one good opportunity so I think I will try first myself. I'm reading now some posts here and there looking for "inspiration".manisteinn wrote: ↑27 Jan 2020, 23:27
I'd happily cast a copy for you for the cost of materials, but I only have the 3278 and Selectric sets so you'd have to send it [...]
With regard to the shift key...manisteinn wrote: ↑27 Jan 2020, 23:27
I assume both your shift keys have identical stem placements, is that right? [...]
Is the CMD key unique to this series? I'd think a flipped 5251/displaywriter return key would be the closest fit but I don't have any of those either. [...]
Luckily it has a double-mount so It can work as left or right shift indistinctively.
And about the 5251 Return...
It fits, but I think it has the wrong slopes, changed between upper and lower part. But it just works and will be good enough to use it as a mold.
Very nice keycaps by the way, with these I only aspire to "fill the gap" because I know no matter how hard I try the new keycaps won't ever look original.
-
- Location: Sweden
- DT Pro Member: -
Nice, it's quite fun
Feel free to ask if you want any tips. I'll mention that the stem shape being so deep and narrow makes the bottom mold fragile, there's quite some pulling force required when demolding and a loud pop when the vacuum finally breaks. Both of mine got progressively looser and eventually ripped (last picture)
It's not a big deal if you're just doing a couple of caps though, and you can of course reinsert the original keycap in the intact top mold and just repour the bottom.
For future molds I'm planning to try out metal stem inserts for improved consistency and longevity.
Interesting, the selectric 2u key also has a similar stem pattern
Great! You already have one
I figured it'd be the wrong profile, you should be able to get much closer to the original by filing the bottom surface to the correct angle.
- inmbolmie
- Location: Spain
- Main keyboard: Model M SSK
- Main mouse: Some random Logitech
- Favorite switch: Buckling Spring
- DT Pro Member: 0230
- Contact:
One final update to this thread, covering the making of reproduction keycaps and the tape drive operation.
Planning for the keycap reproductions I reviewed carefully some topic specific threads like those from manisteinn and others for “inspiration”. I bought locally some molding and casting materials, and it wasn’t cheap at all, as you have to buy all materials in quantities that far exceed what you really need for a couple of castings (silicone, curing agent, two-component polyurethane resin, clay, vaseline and pigments).
Some images of the keycap casting process.
Final result, as I said better than expected and much much better than having an empty space there.
Finally some images of the tape drive, and the discovery of the original purpose of this machine
And that’s all for this IBM 5100, I still have to finish the tape drive restoration and try to make the printer work, but that won’t be so relevant for keyboard enthusiasts.
Thanks for tuning in!
Planning for the keycap reproductions I reviewed carefully some topic specific threads like those from manisteinn and others for “inspiration”. I bought locally some molding and casting materials, and it wasn’t cheap at all, as you have to buy all materials in quantities that far exceed what you really need for a couple of castings (silicone, curing agent, two-component polyurethane resin, clay, vaseline and pigments).
Some images of the keycap casting process.
Spoiler:
Final result, as I said better than expected and much much better than having an empty space there.
Finally some images of the tape drive, and the discovery of the original purpose of this machine
Spoiler:
And that’s all for this IBM 5100, I still have to finish the tape drive restoration and try to make the printer work, but that won’t be so relevant for keyboard enthusiasts.
Thanks for tuning in!
- Raumfahrer
- Location: TPO
- Main keyboard: 3101, Magnavox Videowriter SKCL Green
- Main mouse: Viper Ult
- Favorite switch: Beamspring
- DT Pro Member: 0211
- Contact:
what an amazing thread, and a great job at bringing this thing back to life!
-
- Location: UK
- Main keyboard: Filco ZERO green alps, Model F 122 Terminal
- Main mouse: Ducky Secret / Roller Mouse Pro 1
- Favorite switch: MX Mount Topre / Model F Buckling
- DT Pro Member: 0167
Hey! We want to see it all !
Fantastic work getting this thing back up and running. Clearly a labour of love.
Show photos and videos ones its 100% !