Leopold FC660C with Topre to MX sliders - questions

[Luna]

I would like to recap a Leopold FC660C with MX style keycaps (round 6). I know this is possible with topre to MX sliders. Not sure if al sliders work with Leopold though and what sliders are of good quality.

So here are a few questions:
Is there a whole set I can buy that includes sliders for the larger keys?
Is there any particular brand I should choose that fits well or is of good quality? Maybe some sliders don't work with Leopold?
What is the best place to source these, somewhere they have great quality sliders and the price is normal?

[Laser]

The best set would be that taken from the insides of a CM Novatouch keyboard. Since this is quite impractical, you are left with the following options, which are *worse*:

- JTK sliders, these includes sliders for the larger keys. They were available in a Groupbuy, but they pop up at reddit/mechmarket sometimes, and it's possible other keyboard sites are still selling them. I have a set, and they have two problems (also reported by others): first, the key mount is loose, and many keys fall if you mount them and place the keyboard upside down; second, some of the stems have the plastic bump (created in the manufacturing process, plastic injection etc.) in the middle, and can hamper the function of the key, so that it can stuck. Both problems are solvable, use some thin plastic between stem and keycap, file the bump.
- KBDFans sliders, here: https://kbdfans.cn/products/topre-keyca ... -adapter-x (I don't have them, I heard that they are similar to the JTK sliders, but they do look different). These also seem to include the sliders for the larger keys.
- Older, usually white, Topre-MX adapters similar to those found in Plum keyboards (I also bought some) - these do not include the sliders for the larger keys, and are somewhat brittle (the legs can break easier than for other type of sliders).

In your place, I'd use the KBDFans link. Maybe I'll even do it when my next Topre keyboard arrives

The same site has some pretty thin silencer rings too - you can buy them both (sliders and rings) from the first link actually.

[Luna]

Thank you for the info.
Not sure I like all that though. Maybe try to find a used Novatouch?
I wonder what the chances will be and the price ....

But if I do put different sliders in, will any type of MX keycaps work or are there problems with some types? (higher profiles,...)

[Laser]

Novatouches are pretty expensive, since they are not produced anymore. The key profile *should* not matter, but don't take my word for it. Maybe invest in Hasu's alternative controller for the FC660C instead, which makes the keyboard completely programmable?

[Luna]

Will check that controller out, thanks!
And while I'm at it, should I lube the sliders or not? What lube would be good for that and would it be good for MX stems as well or do those need a different kind?

[Laser]

I used this - but only lube the the inside of the two corners, where the slider legs touch, and only use a small amount. As a warning, there are people that didn't like the outcome (maybe they used the thicker grease?) - perhaps search some more here and on the geekhack.org forum.

[Luna]

Thanks, reading up on lubing and saw a few videos for lubing Topres.
Indeed, though in some videos thick lube was use I see it's mostly not recommended for Topres.
Now checking out the why and why not, or maybe only stabs.
Man, am I glad I asked this on the forum, sure got me on track!

Do you use hyperspheres on your Topres by the way and do you like them?

Edit: I don't care about the sound however, only the feel matters to me.

[Laser]

Do you use hyperspheres on your Topres by the way and do you like them?

Can't help you there I'm afraid, I had a mousepad having a back layer made from a very thin rubber, and I used it to made my own custom silencing rings with a pair of punchers. If you don't care about the sound, DON'T silence the keyboard, since it reduces the tactility.

[Luna]

The mousepad thing is compable IMO.
But your answer is clear, it's not for me if it doesn't improve the feel or rather makes it worse. Thanks!
Now to score some parts ....

[Laser]

Good luck

[Luna]

Thanks!
And thanks a lot for the very helpful advice!

Will post some pics when it's done but that will take some time to get all the parts in.

[nsmechkb]

It looks like your questions have been answered, but I'll just add a few anecdotal points from when I used JTK sliders on my 660c:

I had to trim the mount point (the female to the switch's male stem) on some of my caps (inexpensive Gateron blanks), because the bottoms of the caps would hit the raised metal platforms of the stabilized keys. I later used the modified Gateron blanks on an MX board with no noticeable difference. Your mileage may vary.

Re. silencing: I used ironed landing pads (foam pads from elitekeyboards ironed paper-thin) and they have had no noticeable effect on tactility. Changing sliders and key sets will likely change tactility. I wouldn't say it changes tactility for the worse, but there is a difference.

And--I'm confident you already know this, but just in case--the 660 layout requires two 2.25u shift keys. Some key sets will only come with one.

Good luck!

[Luna]

Good thing you mentioned the shift key!

[Luna]

And a 6u spacebar instead of 625. Is that right?
It seems like a 6u spacebar from round 6 doesn’t even exist.

EDIT: Yep, the FC660C, unlike the FC660M, can't get the 7bit treatmeant due to no 6U spacebar being available.

[Laser]

In general, it's hard to change the spacebar from a Topre keyboard, even if you have the MX adaptors. The spacebar is usually stabilized in a way not compatible with its MX counterpart. I don't know how things stay exactly for the FC660C; somebody did manage to mod a HHKB by replacing the spacebar Topre stabilizers with Costar ones, I think it was a post on geekhack.org forum but it's pretty hard to find.

[Luna]

Yep, I'm giving up on the FC660C with 7bit combo.

For the FC660C I'm hoping for Massdrop to actually release this some time in the future:
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/custom-topre-keycap-set
As I understood it hasn't been released yet.

For my 7bit set I'll use either the NovaTouch or Varmilo VA68M as these have no different sized keys.

Luckily I wass still able to find a NovaTouch and a 87U Anniversary so I'll have a nice Topre collection anyway.
Some red escapes have just come in and I'm still looking for lavender or red cursors and enter keys.
The FC660C will be a long term project it seems.

EDIT: Just had to cancel the NovaTouch. Ordered it from Amazon Italy and like often Amazon adversised the keyboard to be ANSI US while it was ISO Italian of course. Happens all the time here in Europe, and not only with Amazon, basically all big wbestores. They simply put US model numbers and ASIN codes on their websites so you can't check that either. Best to buy from dedicated keyboard vendors like Candykeys, Mechbox and KeyboardCo or else straight from the US.

[Luna]

Might reconsider recapping the Leopold with the new HiPro set on Massdrop.
Will be an expensive keyboard though!

[Laser]

As a very subjective opinion this time (after I put SA keycaps on a HHKB once) - high profile keycaps, and especially these new ones (Matt3o's /dev/tty set) look much better on a keyboard that has at least the F keys - maybe a 75%, a TKL or a full keyboard. It's a pity IMO not to have at least the F keys with this profile (especially since you can also use alternating F1-F4 F5-F8 F9-F12 colors). Also, money wise, a TKL format is the best ...

[Luna]

Thanks for the advice but for a Leopold Topre there aren't many options I guess.
I very much like the general look of the keyboard from a member in the picture below.
I guess these are SA as well? I believe they're 7bits.
What do you think, won't I get a similar look?

23017.jpg (364.35 KiB) Viewed 9750 times

[Luna]

@Laser
Any idea if an MX spacebar would work using NovaTouch stabs?

[Khers]

A 6u MX spacebar would fit if you use the stabiliser wire from the Leopold. It is at least true for the HHKB:

[Luna]

@Khers

Sounds great, should be doable then, thanks for the info!

[Laser]

Yes, but are you really ready to sacrifice an entire Novatouch just to get those spacebar stabs?

[Luna]

Yes, but are you really ready to sacrifice an entire Novatouch just to get those spacebar stabs?

Oh yes!
And it won’t only get me the stabs but the sliders as well.
As I read here the other two options have some drawbacks and after searching a bit more I found some youtube videos about the matter and I didn’t like what I saw.
No half work, I’d rather do a good job right away.

[Laser]

Well, it's a pity IMHO, the Novatouch is a great keyboard ... If you do it and have no use for the Novatouch "remains", give me a PM if you want (I may be interested in the PCB, case and/or the dome sheet). A silenced Novatouch is really a good TKL.

[Luna]

It is a pity indeed but it’s also a choice I need to make.
The FC660C is my favorite keyboard, I have a beige one I want to keep (mostly) stock since I like the oldschool color and a black one I want to mod all the way with sliders and caps.
The black one is preordered though but I’ll get started on it as soon as I get it.
I’ll let you know then and I will have everything but the sliders and stabs left.
I have no need for the domes, springs, PCB and case.

[Laser]

Alright then, maybe post your mods in the workshop thread, break our hearts

[Luna]

Will certainly do that every time I have a keyboard completed.

Some will be small changes like adding just a little color to the FC600C white and U23, then others like this black FC660C will get a real makeover.
It may all take some time though, I should have the caps for the first two end of March/beginning April.
The latter keyboard should come in in a few weeks but the caps for that wil be the Massdrop /dev/tty, I believe that one was for June or July ...

I have Hako switches coming in today, will try those out and then see if I need to order more of those or more Zealios. Switch replacement will be one of my first tasks then.

[Luna]

Novatouches are pretty expensive, since they are not produced anymore. The key profile *should* not matter, but don't take my word for it. Maybe invest in Hasu's alternative controller for the FC660C instead, which makes the keyboard completely programmable?

I looked into the Hasu controller, interesting and I'd like to install it.
I wonder what happens to the Fn key functionality I have now with the standard controller though, does that remain? I mean, can I still access the F keys and home, PgUp, etc ... like I do now or do I have to reprogram them?
I especially like the "one press shift" functionality of the Hasu, like a shift lock but for 1 keypress only.

The Nova is on it's way. It's an ISO Italian though, for me it doesn't matter much since I need the sliders and stabs only but it might matter for you.

[Laser]

I looked into the Hasu controller, interesting and I'd like to install it.
I wonder what happens to the Fn key functionality I have now with the standard controller though, does that remain? I mean, can I still access the F keys and home, PgUp, etc ... like I do now or do I have to reprogram them?
I especially like the "one press shift" functionality of the Hasu, like a shift lock but for 1 keypress only.

With Hasu's controller, using TMK firmware, you can make any key do whatever you want, so you can replicate your Fn key and re-create the same combinations that the Leopold already has. Knowing Hasu and his HHKB controller, I could almost bet there is already a keymap created to do just that. But, you can make *any* key a function key and create as many function layers as you want; also normal keys such as 'j' or 'f' or the spacebar can be made "dual-role keys" so that releasing them stand-alone keeps their original functionality (j, f, or spacebar), but combining them with other keys make them work as function keys. Also switching to a function "layer" can be temporary (while a function key is pressed), or permanent, so you can switch entire keyboard layouts back and forth, or keep them activated until the next time you press some special key or key combo. Also mouse emulation! It's very powerful - but I suppose you already read about TMK's keymap creation at his github page.

The Nova is on it's way. It's an ISO Italian though, for me it doesn't matter much since I need the sliders and stabs only but it might matter for you.

This isn't at all critical. I have a Plum dome sheet (55g) and enough springs to make a kind of "bastard" functional keyboard from it (i.e. Topre PCB, Plum domes, CM case), and gift it to an unsuspecting local friend (EDIT: actually I don't even have to change the dome sheet - I'll just have to put some Plum sliders and JTK stabs in it)