Hi-Profile PBT Dye-sub (the time has come)

matt3o · 22 Aug 2016, 17:35

I like M3 profile

lot_lizard · 29 Aug 2016, 00:13

M3 is PERFECT... Love.

I would argue you that when you are ready for different stems (other than MX), please consider making these as the second piece in a 2-piece bucking spring cap. I realize the design gets altered slightly, but it is a market BEGGING for this. It would save me from having to harden the buckling spring MX adapter further for these special keys (shifts, capslock, etc), and ultimately is a better profile than SA anyway. We will be making flat plate bucking spring designs sometime next year. This would be a brilliant addition.

If it is interesting, I would love to team up to assist in the "special keys", as there are 5-8 depending on SSK vs. full-size (101-key). I have put a significant amount of research into what needs to be done, and could assist in the process. Again... these are beautiful. Well done

matt3o · 29 Aug 2016, 08:00

the cost of manufacturing a new set with a different stem like buckling spring is pretty high, I'm not sure there would be enough demand to justify it.

XMIT · 29 Aug 2016, 16:12

Remind me - is this just Cherry MX mount, or is Alps mount an option as well?

matt3o · 29 Aug 2016, 16:14

we will start with cherry MX, if it works we will expand.

lot_lizard · 29 Aug 2016, 17:57

matt3o wrote: ↑the cost of manufacturing a new set with a different stem like buckling spring is pretty high, I'm not sure there would be enough demand to justify it.

No worries... just for clarity though, I am not talking about producing the whole keycap (with the stem), I was implying the key cap top of the 2-piece only. We can source the stems very easily

matt3o · 29 Aug 2016, 18:04

that would be definitely easier but it requires a new mold anyway

7bit · 29 Aug 2016, 18:08

I would also prefer the key cap only, ideally as double shot. Without a stem it should be a much simpler design. Also, it would be possible to glue them on, if there is no 100% perfect fit, while the stems must be 100% perfect, which is not so easy.

Ray · 29 Aug 2016, 18:17

I just had the silly idea about a modular system. Probably not practical with keycaps at all, though.

matt3o · 29 Aug 2016, 19:21

7bit wrote: ↑I would also prefer the key cap only, ideally as double shot. Without a stem it should be a much simpler design. Also, it would be possible to glue them on, if there is no 100% perfect fit, while the stems must be 100% perfect, which is not so easy.

aren't some of the keys on model M actually in just one piece? I'm thinking ISO enter for example, but I seem to remember that some other keys do not have the stem+cap.

emdude · 29 Aug 2016, 19:26

Yeah, all wide keys (and the space bar, of course), specifically (for ANSI at least): both Shifts, Enter, Backspace, Caps Lock, and the Numpad +, Enter and 0/Insert keys.

matt3o · 29 Aug 2016, 19:37

that would be a problem

7bit · 29 Aug 2016, 21:11

We only need 2 key caps: 1 and 1.5 units. The 1.5 units keys will be hat caps and therefore the legend molds can be used for all keys. We don't need stabilisers and no stems, just the 2 caps in doubleshot spherical!

lot_lizard · 29 Aug 2016, 22:31

Agree with 7bit, with a twist. You just leverage the same keystem as the stabilizer on oversized keys. So the keystem is always the generic 2-piece keystem base (regardless if it is an active switch). Then the caps just snap on. A picture below of a 1.5u to add context. For the anything >1.5u, you just have multiple of these oversized clips (2 for anything ANSI with ISO enter needing three. Definitely doable. I would be up for helping to fund mold costs (assuming I get a cut until reimbursed).

Any extra stems we need, we source (plenty floating around without tops), or crawl to Unicomp when that supply dwindles. Moral, avoid designing stems.

Sorry for hijacking the thread with this, but we (BS fans) need help. I'll let it rest, but demand will be there... You build it, they will come.

: image.jpeg (430.71 KiB) Viewed 5175 times

Techno Trousers · 29 Aug 2016, 23:05

DS caps for buckling spring stems would be in-freaking-credible. The best part is that although multiple molds would be needed because of the larger keys, there would only be a single "row" profile for them all, thanks to the IBM curved plate.

Shihatsu · 30 Aug 2016, 09:22

Wodan wrote: ↑ make it a little less obvious, we have to sell this to SP after all

Why that? I thought SP will be avoided?

pomk · 30 Aug 2016, 09:49

Actually I got an email this morning from SP that they will produce some pbt dyesub SA caps that will be up for grabs on the 1st of Sep. From the photo it looks like row3 only

chzel · 30 Aug 2016, 09:57

I got mail from SP today, apparently they decided to do a small run of SA Dye-sublimated black on white, run through PMK.

We're excited to unveil our first Featured Keyset of the Month! Every month, we'll release a limited edition SA sublimated keyset. We're only producing a small amount of each keyset, so be sure to get yours as soon as possible.

The first set is called Ice Cap - it's our first all-white SA sublimated keyset with black sublimated legends in Gorton Modified Font. Ice Cap launches this Thursday, September 1st at 12 PM PDT. Mark your calendars for it, and stay tuned for next month's Featured SA Keyset! In the meantime, check out what we have available in the KeyShop.

derzemel · 30 Aug 2016, 10:57

SP SA dyesubs images . As pomk noted above, they look row 3 only.

matt3o · 30 Aug 2016, 11:37

SP SA profile is wrong in so many ways. that's why we designed a new one from scratch. that and the fact that SP is constantly overbooked.

regarding buckling spring project. the cost of designing a new set is roughly $20k, it's quite a commitment. Cherry MX has the numbers to cover the expenses, everything else is quite risky, but if there's a real interest we can talk about it.

chzel · 30 Aug 2016, 11:41

Ninja'd by pomk! I didn't notice your post! I blame Tapatalk! R3 SA sucks, full sculpted is rather nice, not beamspring nice though...

derzemel · 30 Aug 2016, 12:55

guys... I had a brainfart a few days ago, while playing with stamps and stencils. Hear me out please:

Can the DyeSub process of the keycaps be reversed? Meaning, instead of painting the letter, we paint the whole keycapt in dyesub paint, except the letter (like a stencil). For example, here is a Stark Banner stencil/rubber stamp I made where the details are represented by the thin unpainted lines:

I also found these DyeSub PBT keycaps which are a good (complicated) example of what I am talking about (taken from this etsy link):

Wodan · 30 Aug 2016, 15:01

matt3o wrote: ↑SP SA profile is wrong in so many ways. that's why we designed a new one from scratch. that and the fact that SP is constantly overbooked.

regarding buckling spring project. the cost of designing a new set is roughly $20k, it's quite a commitment. Cherry MX has the numbers to cover the expenses, everything else is quite risky, but if there's a real interest we can talk about it.

Advantage of BSpring keycaps is you don't need row profiles. Does that affect the estimated costs in any way?

Or is the goal here to create further profile to buckling spring boards?

matt3o · 30 Aug 2016, 18:15

derzemel wrote: ↑Can the DyeSub process of the keycaps be reversed? Meaning, instead of painting the letter, we paint the whole keycapt in dyesub paint, except the letter (like a stencil).

Yes-ish. It is technically feasible to dye-sub a whole white keycap --say-- black except for the legend (that would remain white). It is pretty tricky, with a huge margin of error. So you can do it for a bunch of keys not a whole set.

Wodan wrote: ↑ Advantage of BSpring keycaps is you don't need row profiles. Does that affect the estimated costs in any way?

yes, that definitely helps, but still you have multiple molds (1.5u, iso enter, shifts, ...)

emdude · 30 Aug 2016, 18:27

matt3o wrote: ↑
derzemel wrote: ↑Can the DyeSub process of the keycaps be reversed? Meaning, instead of painting the letter, we paint the whole keycapt in dyesub paint, except the letter (like a stencil).
Yes-ish. It is technically feasible to dye-sub a whole white keycap --say-- black except for the legend (that would remain white). It is pretty tricky, with a huge margin of error. So you can do it for a bunch of keys not a whole set.

One Chinese manufacturer has apparently accomplished this and a group buy for two entire keysets made with this 'negative dyesub' process might happen: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82848.0

matt3o · 30 Aug 2016, 18:38

like I said, it is technically possible but the result is hit-and-miss. From the picture on the thread on GH you can see some faded colors (look at the corners of the yellow key or ISO enter).

emdude · 30 Aug 2016, 18:41

Yes, I saw that as well and the OP did take note of the quality issues. Still, it will be interesting to see if this IC goes anywhere.

zslane · 30 Aug 2016, 20:37

matt3o wrote: ↑SP SA profile is wrong in so many ways.

Perhaps. But SP has made the row profile issue irrelevant in this case by only going with row 3. In effect, these new keycaps are just a taller DSA. I'm not sure I really see the point of that.

nateth · 30 Aug 2016, 21:11

zslane wrote:
matt3o wrote: ↑SP SA profile is wrong in so many ways.
Perhaps. But SP has made the row profile issue irrelevant in this case by only going with row 3. In effect, these new keycaps are just a taller DSA. I'm not sure I really see the point of that.

My thoughts exactly.

zabuza1997 · 03 Sep 2016, 14:27

Any news?