Converting an IBM Pingmaster

__red__

Unread post by __red__ » 25 Apr 2017, 05:30

Show me the full output...

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just_add_coffee

Unread post by just_add_coffee » 25 Apr 2017, 05:36

OldIsNew wrote: - including the rather loud beeper!
It's kind of funny to imagine, way back in 1980-something, there was a meeting of IBM people and the consensus was that this beeper was a good idea. Maybe a subsequent meeting resulted in this particular BEEP being selected over BUZZT and THWOK.

It's also funny to think about the sheer amount of work people got done using the noisiest keyboards ever made; but nowadays people gripe about MX blues being too loud!
It does seem to randomly drop some letters at times - still beeps but no screen output for C once then D then Z and Y - and require a reboot of the Teensy ...
Are you also using the TMK keyboard editor to get your .hex file?

Glad you got your board working! And if you find a solution for the dropped keys issue, please let us know.

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just_add_coffee

Unread post by just_add_coffee » 25 Apr 2017, 05:39

__red__ wrote: Show me the full output...
dfucommand2.jpg

__red__

Unread post by __red__ » 25 Apr 2017, 12:13

umm, internal compiler error? That's special. That's a problem with your build environment :-(

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just_add_coffee

Unread post by just_add_coffee » 25 Apr 2017, 19:52

__red__ wrote: umm, internal compiler error? That's special. That's a problem with your build environment :-(
Not even sure where to begin with that.

Can I ask for a favor? Build a .hex file on your machine based on this for me to use to see if the issues do indeed disappear. If they do, then there's a problem with the TMK editor website; if they don't, then the problem is on either my machine or keyboard.

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SaltyMcSushi

Unread post by SaltyMcSushi » 25 Apr 2017, 20:08

Do you have the wrong make file for a Pingmaster layout? Try "Makefile.unimap.alps.rev1" instead of "Makefile.rev1".

That would explain the error you got- "keymap_fn_to_action" finds the action to send based on the keyboard signal, if it's looking regular 4704 keys but you've got a Pingmaster configured layout then it'll look for something that isn't there and complain.

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just_add_coffee

Unread post by just_add_coffee » 25 Apr 2017, 21:37

SaltyMcSushi wrote: Do you have the wrong make file for a Pingmaster layout? Try "Makefile.unimap.alps.rev1" instead of "Makefile.rev1".
Hmmm ... worth a shot ...
dfucommand3.jpg
... I'm not sure what that means. Or exactly how this process is supposed to go.

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Wingklip

Unread post by Wingklip » 26 Apr 2017, 11:25

Problems compiling a layout? Apparently the command to bake the hex like that does not exist, according to screenie.

Sumting is Wong

__red__

Unread post by __red__ » 26 Apr 2017, 17:48

So remember, when you're doing this you're not "compiling the layout", you're compiling the actual assembly language as well and that's what it's exploding at. Your cross-compilation environment is broken.
Can I ask for a favor? Build a .hex file on your machine based on this for me to use to see if the issues do indeed disappear. If they do, then there's a problem with the TMK editor website; if they don't, then the problem is on either my machine or keyboard.
I can't reach that file from my corporate network (which is where I am now) but as long as it's valid - no problem. It will be later this evening...

Thanks,


Red

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just_add_coffee

Unread post by just_add_coffee » 27 Apr 2017, 18:46

Yesterday, Hasu updated the binaries for this keyboard on the TMK Editor. I haven't had any dropped keys yet. The board being unresponsive after not being used for a couple of minutes hasn't entirely gone away, but it seems to be less frequent, and has only happened two times since the update.

And that key that I couldn't assign previously ... it's assignable now ... by assigning the key below it. The last column's bottom two keys are flipped. Assigning the problem key to Page Down and the one below it is Page Up results in Page Up being above the Page Down key in my configuration.

I wish I knew C well enough to be able to help Hasu debug. :oops:

Edit: Here's the GitHub page in case anyone else wants to report an issue.

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SaltyMcSushi

Unread post by SaltyMcSushi » 27 Apr 2017, 22:23

That's great news! Those two keys may be getting switched but at least the keyboard is 100% usable now. Thanks a lot for reporting the issue.

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Wingklip

Unread post by Wingklip » 05 May 2017, 14:12

Does hasu's stuff work with PS2 boards like soarer's does?

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Stabilized

Unread post by Stabilized » 05 May 2017, 14:26

Wingklip wrote: Does hasu's stuff work with PS2 boards like soarer's does?
Yup, you can find the details here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=14618.0
And Hasu's selling them here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=72052.0

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just_add_coffee

Unread post by just_add_coffee » 12 May 2017, 18:17

If you're using the TMK Editor, it looks like Hasu has fixed just about all of the issues. I'm still experiencing the board occasionally not being immediately responsive upon switching to a new active window.

(I don't know if that's the best explanation I can muster, but better alternatives would be much wordier.)

Is anyone else experiencing this with the Pingmaster using the TMK Editor?

_Red_ ... I'm still interested in trying the .hex file. I didn't want to bug you about it, but I haven't forgotten either.

Edit:
In the Soarer's Converters docs, I came across this ...
But, if the keyboard has a very long cable (3m+), I recommend adding two pull-up resistors of 1Kohm - one between Clock and +5V, the other between Data and +5V. These can really help to clean up a dirty signal (see here).
I've been using a USB extension. After two hours of use plugged directly into the computer, I haven't had any responsiveness issues.

Off to purchase some 1Kohm resistors to try this!

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bolbi

Unread post by bolbi » 14 May 2017, 21:35

just_add_coffee wrote: If you're using the TMK Editor, it looks like Hasu has fixed just about all of the issues. I'm still experiencing the board occasionally not being immediately responsive upon switching to a new active window.

(I don't know if that's the best explanation I can muster, but better alternatives would be much wordier.)

Is anyone else experiencing this with the Pingmaster using the TMK Editor?

_Red_ ... I'm still interested in trying the .hex file. I didn't want to bug you about it, but I haven't forgotten either.

Edit:
In the Soarer's Converters docs, I came across this ...
But, if the keyboard has a very long cable (3m+), I recommend adding two pull-up resistors of 1Kohm - one between Clock and +5V, the other between Data and +5V. These can really help to clean up a dirty signal (see here).
I've been using a USB extension. After two hours of use plugged directly into the computer, I haven't had any responsiveness issues.

Off to purchase some 1Kohm resistors to try this!
Wait are you using TMK or Soarers for this? Me and my friends have been having issues getting ours to work as well

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just_add_coffee

Unread post by just_add_coffee » 14 May 2017, 21:47

bolbi wrote: Wait are you using TMK or Soarers for this? Me and my friends have been having issues getting ours to work as well
TMK. I've been using the TMK Editor to generate the .hex, dragging and dropping it into the Teensy Loader, and pushing the bootloader button on the Teensy. It works pretty well now, and hopefully will work perfectly after I put those resistors on! :D

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bolbi

Unread post by bolbi » 14 May 2017, 21:56

just_add_coffee wrote:
bolbi wrote: Wait are you using TMK or Soarers for this? Me and my friends have been having issues getting ours to work as well
TMK. I've been using the TMK Editor to generate the .hex, dragging and dropping it into the Teensy Loader, and pushing the bootloader button on the Teensy. It works pretty well now, and hopefully will work perfectly after I put those resistors on! :D
So does the Soarers just not work?? I've seen plenty of other people use it but it isn't working for us. Could it be that it's because we have the Chinese version and not the Japanese version?

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just_add_coffee

Unread post by just_add_coffee » 14 May 2017, 22:12

bolbi wrote: So does the Soarers just not work?? I've seen plenty of other people use it but it isn't working for us. Could it be that it's because we have the Chinese version and not the Japanese version?
I have the Chinese version also. I don't think whether you're using the Japanese or Chinese version matters, but I also was unable to get the Soarer's to work. I attributed the issue to some sort of Windows funkiness.

And honestly, maybe I gave up too soon. My first "programmable" keyboard was a custom-built Ergodox in which key assignments are done graphically with the process I described. So maybe I'm guilty of not wanting to leave my comfort zone.

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bolbi

Unread post by bolbi » 14 May 2017, 22:18

just_add_coffee wrote:
bolbi wrote: So does the Soarers just not work?? I've seen plenty of other people use it but it isn't working for us. Could it be that it's because we have the Chinese version and not the Japanese version?
I have the Chinese version also. I don't think whether you're using the Japanese or Chinese version matters, but I also was unable to get the Soarer's to work. I attributed the issue to some sort of Windows funkiness.

And honestly, maybe I gave up too soon. My first "programmable" keyboard was a custom-built Ergodox in which key assignments are done graphically with the process I described. So maybe I'm guilty of not wanting to leave my comfort zone.
I'm just wondering because of all the ones I see that work with Soarers they have been Japanese. I could be wrong but I have no clue. I also have to ask, did you pull the original microcontroller off and solder the teensy to the board?

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just_add_coffee

Unread post by just_add_coffee » 14 May 2017, 22:33

bolbi wrote: I also have to ask, did you pull the original microcontroller off and solder the teensy to the board?
On my first two attempts ... yes, I did that. Being new to soldering/desoldering and an all-around idiot, I destroyed some traces getting the old controller out. But people have successfully replaced the original controller with either a Teensy2.0 or a Pro-Micro.

The 3rd time, and the board I'm typing on right now, the Teensy2.0 is soldered to the original cable's connection like so ...
Image

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bolbi

Unread post by bolbi » 14 May 2017, 22:46

just_add_coffee wrote:
bolbi wrote: I also have to ask, did you pull the original microcontroller off and solder the teensy to the board?
On my first two attempts ... yes, I did that. Being new to soldering/desoldering and an all-around idiot, I destroyed some traces getting the old controller out. But people have successfully replaced the original controller with either a Teensy2.0 or a Pro-Micro.

The 3rd time, and the board I'm typing on right now, the Teensy2.0 is soldered to the original cable's connection like so ...
Image
okay I was just making sure because we have one working with a db9 adapter to ps2 and have that connected to the teensy using the basic clock, ground, data, and 5v pinout, but when we tried desoldering the original microcontroller and using the pinouts Soarer provided and checked to make sure all pads and traces were still good, it didn't work. I don't know why but the only ones we could find that were using Soarers are the Japanese and there are a good bit of them. I don't know if it's a coincidence or not but it seems like it isn't and we can't find any working Chinese ones using Soarers. Everyone we have seen with the Chinese layout has had issues with Soarers and had to switch to using TMK so I don't know I just wish there was a straightforward answer to this

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just_add_coffee

Unread post by just_add_coffee » 14 May 2017, 23:30

The Japanese versions definitely seemed more popular and the Ebay seller has been out of that version for a while now.

If you do find an answer, please post it here and shout it from the rooftops because it was frustrating when I first set out to do this with lots and lots of contradictory info out there. These boards are amazing and the switches blow the doors off just about anything out there nowadays (as long as you don't want another keyset on them or a clicky switch).

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bolbi

Unread post by bolbi » 14 May 2017, 23:40

just_add_coffee wrote: The Japanese versions definitely seemed more popular and the Ebay seller has been out of that version for a while now.

If you do find an answer, please post it here and shout it from the rooftops because it was frustrating when I first set out to do this with lots and lots of contradictory info out there. These boards are amazing and the switches blow the doors off just about anything out there nowadays (as long as you don't want another keyset on them or a clicky switch).
If we can ever get our hands on one of the Japanese boards I'll let you know otherwise I know just as much as you do. The lack of clear and concise info is what's been the most frustrating thing I just want to use it because the switches feel seriously insane. Also, do you know how to remap on TMK because we've only Soarer so we're not that sure

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gazza341

Unread post by gazza341 » 15 May 2017, 00:03

ok, so i've joined this party fashionably late, but i'm just embarking on the chinese pingmaster conversion. i'd like to say a massive thanks to Coffee and Red for their input and documentation on this journey - no doubt has saved me a lot of frustration and kicking of cats. A few questions are still unanswered in my mind, but they will undoubtedly be answered as i delve into the guts of the board.
I am thinking of mounting a teensy inside the board, so i may just connect with a mini usb cable - can anyone advise if there is a downside of this approach?
I have read this and many other threads on this subject, so i am uncertain of the source of what i am about to ask. Does the internal speaker still sound upon key presses or has this now been ironed out? also, was it ever discovered if the micro controller should be removed or left in place? - i am obvz going with the latter, but i too have seen other tuts advising of the removal.

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just_add_coffee

Unread post by just_add_coffee » 15 May 2017, 00:45

gazza341 wrote: ok, so i've joined this party fashionably late,
But look at it like this: Experience ... learning from your mistakes. Wisdom ... learning from everyone else's mistakes. :D
I am thinking of mounting a teensy inside the board, so i may just connect with a mini usb cable - can anyone advise if there is a downside of this approach?
If you can get the Soarer's Converter version to work, then no.

But if you do it how I described previously, then you may need to press the Teensy button in order to flash it. Supposedly LShift + RShift + Pause or LAlt + RAlt + Pause will restart the bootloader, but I couldn't get it to work and I don't know why yet.

So in my situation, if I can't solve that issue, I'm either opening the case every time I want to change something, or I'll need to mount the Teensy so that I can push the button with a paper clip. And I think I can do that and be satisfied with the result. Other people might think having to manually push the button is annoying. It just depends I guess.

Another alternative would be an external box and db9 port that was discussed previously. You could access the Teensy button and not have to drill a hole in the case itself, and you preserve the original cable.
Does the internal speaker still sound upon key presses or has this now been ironed out? also, was it ever discovered if the micro controller should be removed or left in place? - i am obvz going with the latter, but i too have seen other tuts advising of the removal.
The speaker does indeed beep with each keystroke doing it my way (and with the volume knob on the back of the board turned up). The novelty wore off fairly quickly for me though. :D I don't think the speaker works using the controller removal method based on a discussion I had with someone. They had said that they ended up disconnecting the speaker because it would randomly chitter.

I personally would not recommend removing the micro controller. That plan can and has been done successfully; just not by me. It's easy to damage the traces; it's more work; and in the end, you wind up with the same product as you would've had you done it the easy way. And if you want to use TMK, then I'd argue that keeping the controller and doing it my way is the better end result.

Whatever way you decide, please post in this thread and let us know how it goes! I'll post the results of adding those resistors and whether that fixes the remaining quirks.

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bolbi

Unread post by bolbi » 15 May 2017, 00:57

You won't be able to use TMK if you remove the microcontroller from my experience, but then again Soarer's didn't work either :|

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gazza341

Re: Converting an IBM Pingmaster

Unread post by gazza341 » 15 May 2017, 01:52

Nice one, thanks for your replies. Think I'm going with the internal teensy option.
I'll be sure to document my progress on here


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Shean

Unread post by Shean » 16 May 2017, 06:12

I know that this is a little off topic but does anyone know how to add macros using the TMK converter because I can't figure it out.

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just_add_coffee

Unread post by just_add_coffee » 16 May 2017, 14:16

Shean wrote: I know that this is a little off topic but does anyone know how to add macros using the TMK converter because I can't figure it out.
I'm still learning, but here's how I set switching active panes ...
Clipboard01.jpg
... It's under the "Code Edit" tab.

Shean

Unread post by Shean » 16 May 2017, 18:49

thank you so much

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