Model F PING dampen methods comparison

User avatar
SneakyRobb
THINK

26 Apr 2020, 23:36

Hi,

I will update this later today as I finish.

I was thinking about this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=23394

In terms of model F sound dampening.

Then today I saw this thread with a discussion about the existing superfloss model F dampening:
viewtopic.php?p=463154#p463154

THINK:

I have a model F AT that is not assembled that I was thinking of doing the space bar mod. I got part of the way through and I thought... I really like the XT space bar. I honestly would rather keep it. I dremelled part of it away but, nah XT spacebar.

So I thought, how can I have fun with this F AT?

I will do a sound comparison! So right now I have assembled the the Numpad flippers on the AT with foam bottom plug dampened flippers like on the AT&T buckling spring and I will use the super floss on the F1-10 keys on the left.

Then I can see what PING reducing method is best.

I will film a sound comparison tonight, just assembling now. Here are some images of the process.

Basically if this sound dampen method works, the main benefit is that its pretty easy/fast to do and you can use the same foam from the rest of the restore process.

Basically you can use the same foam you use to cut the Model F foam mat, so this seem easy.

Anyway, Here are some photos. Hopefully done soon.
foam1.png
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foam2.png
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1 should I mod space.jpg
1 should I mod space.jpg (3.56 MiB) Viewed 576 times
nah.jpg
nah.jpg (4.04 MiB) Viewed 576 times
2 beamspring hole cutter works.jpg
2 beamspring hole cutter works.jpg (3.54 MiB) Viewed 576 times
3 spring ID 2.15 or so mm.jpg
3 spring ID 2.15 or so mm.jpg (3.36 MiB) Viewed 576 times
4 beamspring hole cutter too small.jpg
4 beamspring hole cutter too small.jpg (3.51 MiB) Viewed 576 times
5 leather punch arrives.jpg
5 leather punch arrives.jpg (3.48 MiB) Viewed 576 times
6 tools leather punch with stick.jpg
6 tools leather punch with stick.jpg (3.55 MiB) Viewed 576 times
7 the stick is a metal rod about 1.5mm diameter.jpg
7 the stick is a metal rod about 1.5mm diameter.jpg (3.71 MiB) Viewed 576 times
8 first attempt put foam bottom of spring.jpg
8 first attempt put foam bottom of spring.jpg (4.58 MiB) Viewed 576 times
9 what if put top and ram with stick down.jpg
9 what if put top and ram with stick down.jpg (3.93 MiB) Viewed 576 times
10 STICK WORKS.jpg
10 STICK WORKS.jpg (4.03 MiB) Viewed 576 times
11 model f flipper rat king careful not to break.jpg
11 model f flipper rat king careful not to break.jpg (4.1 MiB) Viewed 576 times
12 cut foams ready to insert.jpg
12 cut foams ready to insert.jpg (3.66 MiB) Viewed 576 times
13 yes this is good.jpg
13 yes this is good.jpg (3.64 MiB) Viewed 576 times
14 ready to ram.jpg
14 ready to ram.jpg (4.25 MiB) Viewed 576 times
15 use 2 hadns.jpg
15 use 2 hadns.jpg (3.98 MiB) Viewed 576 times
16 works great.jpg
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20 foam plugs made in 10 mins.jpg
20 foam plugs made in 10 mins.jpg (4.42 MiB) Viewed 576 times
Last edited by SneakyRobb on 27 Apr 2020, 19:21, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
DMA

27 Apr 2020, 08:31

how about a small blob of silicone sealant on the underside of the barrel assembly? I've got pretty good noise abatement out of that. There's even a post somewhere around..

User avatar
SneakyRobb
THINK

27 Apr 2020, 16:30

DMA wrote:
27 Apr 2020, 08:31
how about a small blob of silicone sealant on the underside of the barrel assembly? I've got pretty good noise abatement out of that. There's even a post somewhere around..
Hi that is interesting. Do you have a photo of that, not sure where you mean.

Also I mostly put the board together. I was having issues with the big spacebar so for now I have a 4 key comparison sound test.

https://youtu.be/fLq2PKu_uWY

The order of keypresses is

3x normal click,
then 3x super-floss mod click
then 3x one-foam plug click
then 3x two-foam plug click

Repeats again.

The foam as mentioned is simply the same foam used in the F AT restoration, ie Michaels foam.

I think in general the sound is comparable to the floss mod. It is pretty fast to do this mod if you have a leather hole punch too. You dont even need to disassemble the board, just use tweezers to insert and a metal stick to push it to the bottom.

An advantage the floss mod has over foam-plug is removing the floss is much easier. Simply tweezer it out. For foam-plug you can pull the springs out of the barrels and remove the foam, but obviously that could occasionally result in a bent spring when putting them back etc.

Over all I think it sounds pretty good and will try to finish the full assembly today for more comparisons.

User avatar
DMA

27 Apr 2020, 18:33

SneakyRobb wrote:
27 Apr 2020, 16:30
DMA wrote:
27 Apr 2020, 08:31
how about a small blob of silicone sealant on the underside of the barrel assembly? I've got pretty good noise abatement out of that. There's even a post somewhere around..
Hi that is interesting. Do you have a photo of that, not sure where you mean.
Image

User avatar
SneakyRobb
THINK

27 Apr 2020, 19:27

DMA wrote:
27 Apr 2020, 18:33
SneakyRobb wrote:
27 Apr 2020, 16:30
DMA wrote:
27 Apr 2020, 08:31
how about a small blob of silicone sealant on the underside of the barrel assembly? I've got pretty good noise abatement out of that. There's even a post somewhere around..
Hi that is interesting. Do you have a photo of that, not sure where you mean.
Image
Hi, that is an interesting method. I was more focused on a comparison to the floss method specifically targeting ping.

Regardless If one wanted to reduce noise I imagine that would take away some of the upward click noise. I wonder if there is an audio comparison with the sealant. So I think that is also a cool thought.

User avatar
DMA

27 Apr 2020, 20:52

SneakyRobb wrote:
27 Apr 2020, 19:27
Hi, that is an interesting method. I was more focused on a comparison to the floss method specifically targeting ping.

Regardless If one wanted to reduce noise I imagine that would take away some of the upward click noise. I wonder if there is an audio comparison with the sealant. So I think that is also a cool thought.
I found that ping is a minor contributor - at least on my foamless F122 testbed. The rebound is something like +12db to the actuation loudness

User avatar
Twst

27 Apr 2020, 21:12

Interesting topic!

I just had a go testing the floss mod on my F77;

User avatar
SneakyRobb
THINK

27 Apr 2020, 21:42

DMA wrote:
27 Apr 2020, 20:52
SneakyRobb wrote:
27 Apr 2020, 19:27
Hi, that is an interesting method. I was more focused on a comparison to the floss method specifically targeting ping.

Regardless If one wanted to reduce noise I imagine that would take away some of the upward click noise. I wonder if there is an audio comparison with the sealant. So I think that is also a cool thought.
I found that ping is a minor contributor - at least on my foamless F122 testbed. The rebound is something like +12db to the actuation loudness
Ah got you. Interesting notion. I will actually try this thin foam sticker material I have here. I need to disassemble the F AT to fix the spacebar, so I'll put the foam on the top of several flippers.

Hopefullly it will dampen the up click a bit. I don't know if I will personally like the result of less noise, but I will do it to experiment/fun.
thin foam sticker 1.jpg
thin foam sticker 1.jpg (3.92 MiB) Viewed 382 times
Twst wrote:
27 Apr 2020, 21:12
Interesting topic!

I just had a go testing the floss mod on my F77;
Spoiler:

Nice video!. Yes I think the floss mod does work very well and is quite simple. I actually just got the F AT back together to make a comparison video.
The 10 left side function keys are Super-Floss moded

The alpha block is stock and of course very ping-y. (Space bar needs to be redone, is wobbly sad)

Numpad is mostly 1 piece of michaels craft foam, Except these 4 numpad keys -

Numlock-key is stock
Key to the right of numlock (F9) is floss mod
Key to right of that (blank) is 1 foam piece
Key to the right of that (blank the "top right key") is 2x foam pieces


The top right key has the 2 pieces stacked of foam and I think it is probably the best at eliminating the ping without having any dampening on the actual click feel. It might just be my imagination but I find the floss mod to add the slightlest bit of muting to the click.

The single pieces of foam are roughly comparable, imho, to the floss mod. When I rebuild I will do the whole numpad in 2 pieces of stacked foam, not just 1.

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