IBM Model F 62 and F 107 Mod Ideas

[Muirium]

I'd go for a 1.75u stepped right Shift any day. No problem to me if I get HHKB layout from it! In fact, you could consider the step a useful prompt that this is no ordinary wasteful 2.75u Shift key!

[Hypersphere]

I'd go for a 1.75u stepped right Shift any day. No problem to me if I get HHKB layout from it! In fact, you could consider the step a useful prompt that this is no ordinary wasteful 2.75u Shift key!

Yes, there is something to be said for taking a stand against that monstrosity, the 2.75x Right Shift!

Provided the stem is centered under the 1.75x stepped key, I might end up swapping it out for a centered 1.50x key, and if Unicomp cannot be persuaded to print an "Enter" and/or an Enter arrow on the key, I know that they will supply unprinted 1.50x keys. I am actually fine with a 1.25x Right Shift, although this is my limit. I've tried keyboards with 1.00x Right Shift keys, and I tend to miss the key and hit the edges of others.

This opens up other possibilities for the Right Shift and Fn key to its right:

Right Shift: 1.25x, 1.50x, 1.75x
Fn (to right of Right Shift: 1.50x, 1.25x, 1.00x

It might look weird to have Fn larger than Right Shift, so the second option of 1.50x Right Shift and 1.25x Fn looks good.

[Muirium]

Yup, just like Scott said:

It might make more sense to have 1.5 + 1.25 instead of 1.75 + 1.0. It's not a perfect HHKB, but it works.

I'x prefer a perfect 1.75u right Shift, and failing that a stepped one, but this is a great compromise if we need it.

As for the bottom row, 7u spacebar symmetry like the Kishsaver is my favourite. The HHKB was always short a couple of outboard mods.

Yum!

[Hypersphere]

<snip> <snip>
As for the bottom row, 7u spacebar symmetry like the Kishsaver is my favourite. The HHKB was always short a couple of outboard mods.
<snip>

Isn't this sacrilege, at least on the HHKB side? Will you provoke the wrath of Wada? But perhaps this is counterbalanced by upholding the rite of Kish. The result maintains the symmetry of the HHKB but adds two modifiers, so that we end up with:

1.50, 1.00, 1.50, 7,00, 1.50, 1.00, 1.50.

Thus, Revision 3 would look like this:

HHKB-Rev3.png (34.1 KiB) Viewed 6878 times

And here is the link to the layout:
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/# ... c83707baf7
This is not bad at all. It requires only the CapsLock position to have a stepped 1.75x key, and Unicomp has blanks and Ctrl keys available.

One additional revision that could be considered is to shorten the Left Shift to 1.25x and to put an additional Fn key to its right (this one would be 1.00x). I have this arrangement on my XT just for symmetry of sorts, but in practice I never use the left Fn key.

[0100010]

Nice - that revision 3 is looking good! Add a couple barrels on the bottom row and you have these options (GIF) :

[webwit]

The right side of the bottom row isn't right. Wada designed it that if you put your ring finger and little finger down from the home row, they land exactly on the modifiers. This design negates that for visual symmetry.

[wcass]

It looks like the HHKB uses a 6x spacebar. Might be able to use the shorter Unicomp space bar (5.75) with an added pad to get something closer to HHKB "standard" spacing.

Oh, and for those that don't like a stepped 1.75, this:
http://www.shapeways.com/model/2875805/ ... erialId=66

Polished Metallic Plastic is pretty close to Unicomp gray. Print lines are only visible on the contoured top face giving it the appearance of a fingerprint. This might be an option for custom space bars.

[Hypersphere]

It looks like the HHKB uses a 6x spacebar. Might be able to use the shorter Unicomp space bar (5.75) with an added pad to get something closer to HHKB "standard" spacing.

Oh, and for those that don't like a stepped 1.75, this:
http://www.shapeways.com/model/2875805/ ... erialId=66

Polished Metallic Plastic is pretty close to Unicomp gray. Print lines are only visible on the contoured top face giving it the appearance of a fingerprint. This might be an option for custom space bars.

Thanks for these insights. I am fine with the 7.00x spacebar, which enables preservation of symmetry on the bottom row. At the same time, I am in favor of having a smaller spacebar. However, I think that the 7.00x spacebars might be more plentiful and also available in black. Regarding Unicomp colors, I prefer Pebble or Black rather than Gray for mods.

Here is HHKB-Rev4 with a 5.75x spacebar:

HHKB-Rev4.png (35.87 KiB) Viewed 6817 times

This revision explicitly shows that the 1.75x key in the customary CapsLock position is stepped. I don't mind having a stepped key in this spot. However, the bottom row is starting to look cluttered. While I like having a shorter spacebar, aesthetically, I prefer HHKB-Rev3 which has a nice symmetry.

[0100010]

I prefer the 7x spacebar or the 2.75 - 1.5 - 2.75 split space bar.

[Hypersphere]

I prefer the 7x spacebar or the 2.75 - 1.5 - 2.75 split space bar.

As do I. Symmetry! I should add that I favor the 7x spacebar version: symmetry plus simplicity.

[0100010]

I prefer the 7x spacebar or the 2.75 - 1.5 - 2.75 split space bar.

As do I. Symmetry! I should add that I favor the 7x spacebar version: symmetry plus simplicity.

I would expect that a single PCB / plate design could support both the 7x spacebar and the 2.75 - 1.5 - 2.75 split space bars. For someone wanting the 7x, there would just be a couple unused barrels underneath (subject to testing).

[Muirium]

I like the one I suggested, too!



Webwit may well be right it's insufficiently Wada, but I very much like the specific ways it deviates from the HHKB. Note the inner symmetry in the inverted T block of right Shift and its underlying mods? Handy for long cursor sessions in a layer lock! I use mods with my thumbs (cue Jacobius calling me a hypocrite*) so the overall bottom row symmetry is an advantage over the HHKB's vertical alignment at the cost of horizontal balance.

*Never one to fear being hypocritical, I have a bit of a defence on this one. I loathe tilted "thumb keys" but I don't mind normal mods on my thumbs at all. The spacebar is the one I actually rest on, and desire convex curved. I like the distinction between spacebar and the other keys. While I also like the homogeny of mods with the upper rows.

[Hypersphere]

@Muirium: Yes, I think this is my favorite as well. It is "HHKB-Rev3" above.

The only tiny downside is that I like light blue Fn keys, and Unicomp does not (yet) produce custom keys in color except for 1.00x. However, I have been gravitating to blank mods anyway, and Unicomp does provide all sizes of blank keys.

[scottc]

HHKB Rev. 3 / HHμB is exactly what I'd go for.

[quantalume]

I like Rev. 3 too, provided it can be converted to ISO. Wcass' PCB design on p. 2 seems to support this.

[0100010]

Yes, Rev 3 can support ISO (enter and split left shift) and it can support a 2x backspace if desired.

[wcass]

OK, i'll update the 60% design for v3. I'll need a Code cap or two to measure and test if it is to support split spacebar.

[Hypersphere]

Excellent! Glad to see the apparent general support for HHKB-Rev3!

I do not have a Code cap for a buckling spring switch -- just for a beam spring, which uses the same type of mount as a Selectric typewriter.

This is exciting! Let me know if there is any other way that I might be able to help with this project.

[elecplus]

I do not have a Code cap for a buckling spring switch -- just for a beam spring, which uses the same type of mount as a Selectric typewriter.

I tried the Selectric keys on the beam springs, and they are not an exact match. The beam springs have 2 little knobs, and the Selectrics use a thin wire. The difference is abt 1/16" too much play in the Selectric keys; they wobble front to back too much.

That being said, I am stripping 3 Selectrics, and have 3 full sets of caps for sale. Somebody make me an offer and take them home. Pics tomorrow.

[Hypersphere]

I do not have a Code cap for a buckling spring switch -- just for a beam spring, which uses the same type of mount as a Selectric typewriter.

I tried the Selectric keys on the beam springs, and they are not an exact match. The beam springs have 2 little knobs, and the Selectrics use a thin wire. The difference is abt 1/16" too much play in the Selectric keys; they wobble front to back too much.

That being said, I am stripping 3 Selectrics, and have 3 full sets of caps for sale. Somebody make me an offer and take them home. Pics tomorrow.

Which model and year of Selectric? And are the caps spherical double-shots?

[elecplus]

Yes, spherical double shots, pics tomorrow. THe Selectrics are brown, if that helps. Selectric IIs, I think.

Like these, I think http://s694.photobucket.com/user/mycadd ... 2.jpg.html

[elecplus]

IMG_4850.JPG (484.51 KiB) Viewed 6720 times

IMG_4851.JPG (442.97 KiB) Viewed 6720 times

IBM Selectric II, there are 3 of these to be scrapped. All the keys are there, I just pulled 2 to show the wire they sit on.
One does not power on, 2 do, but neither one works. So off to the grinder they go.
Shiny scooped caps! Kind of a dark charcoal grey color, white on the bottom side of the caps.

[scottc]

I'm definitely up for a set of these. If we can find another two people in the EU who want sets, I'd be happy to proxy them.

[elecplus]

I'm definitely up for a set of these. If we can find another two people in the EU who want sets, I'd be happy to proxy them.

Please see PM.

[elecplus]

$20 per set, 2 sets left. Anybody else in EU? Postage is flat rate for a priority mail box.

[Iacoizumi]

At that price I'll grab a set!

[elecplus]

OK, all 3 sets are gone now

[0100010]

Hopefully wcass will have some Code keys to measure in the next day or so.

[wcass]

Yep, arrived in the mail today. It is the same width as the right shift key (2.75 units), but the posts are different. The left side of the cap (left edge to buckling post) is the same as a 1.5x cap, then .928" to the stabilizer post (center to center).

I'll draw them up (along with all of the other "standard" keys) and post the DXF files for anyone that wants them.

[Muirium]

So what can a Code key actually do, layout wise? Sit in useful spots other caps can't? Is it curved at all, like a spacebar?

If I knew these things already, I clean forgot!