Round 5 and Round 6 kits for sale!

[Norman_]

I'm in between serious and total sarcasm. We did indeed go through two full years in Round 5 before any caps shipped. Round 5a has been taking orders concurrently with the last year or so of that, but when will they be manufactured? SP seems to have a long waiting list now, and the last time 7bit submitted an order, we wound up with… what… 6, 8, 10 months of total tumbleweed? Pick a number larger than that for 5a, and add it to whenever you think 7bit will place his order. (The only one that actually matters.)

Then rinse and repeat for Round 6. Assuming there isn't a Round 5b or anything else from 7bit in the meantime. I would not be surprised if there is!

Also, Round 6 is meant to be a new design, not just a colour refresh like 5a. So I think it could easily take more than 2 years from now to ship. Possibly 3. And honestly, I wouldn't put any money against even more. It depends on 7bit's own mania for adding more kits and delaying everyone, over and over, for far longer than he ever said. And then the just as comprehensive delays we get from SP. They treated Round 5 as a lowest priority task. It took ages. Round 6 will be just as bad or worse.

And I'm not kidding here.

Ok, those are all pretty fair assumptions. It didn't occur to me how long 5a ordering has been open, this'll pretty easily hit two years, seeing as we're already like...halfway there

[Muirium]

The key is to never believe a single deadline he ever tells you.



We tease him a lot about them, and rightfully so. They're fake! He even made that gif himself and put it on the Round 5 wiki page. They're a mean trick to play on newcomers, but that's a core part of the 7bit group buy experience, apparently. As is the irritating bot process, and the ridiculous payment collection system. You couldn't make it up!

[7bit]

Hey 7bit, I suppose it is too late for Round 5a to make use of the R4 SHIFT key molds that just got finished over at SP? If so, when do you suppose you'll run a repair GB for those?

I didn't know they are finished.

If they exist, sure the SHIFT keys should come in row 4.

What about the 1.25 units keys, did they make those tools as well?

[zslane]

They've had 1.25u keycaps in R4 profile for a while now. Carbon ships with R4 mods on either side of the R3 spacebar.

[Muirium]

SA Retro has them too:


http://deskthority.net/photos-f62/sa-re ... 11954.html

I'm not convinced row 4 mods are better, right beside a row 3 spacebar, but they're worth exploring.

[7bit]

OK, then I can change all of them to row 4.

[Muirium]

Not so sure that's a good idea!

[7bit]

Why not?

[Halvar]

[Muirium]

Why not?

Clashes badly with the spacebar, at least in looks, but potentially feel as well. Just look at that picture.

[chzel]

I think it looks just as bad as the R3 shifts next to R4 alphas...
We were nagging SP for R4 shifts forever and now we got them we're not using them? Madness...
I say use them and then nag SP for R4 spacebars!

[zslane]

Well, something's gonna clash with something. The 0 and . on the numpad are R4. The arrow keys are R3, except on your boards, Muirium, where you like to make them R4. I realize you are measuring clash potential by proximity, but I would judge based on the entire row of an ANSI 104 or ISO 105 keyboard. Don't pretend that those numpad keys don't exist just because you don't use boards that have them. The clash potential extends the entire length of a full board AFAIC.

For the record, I'm not a fan of the R4 thumb row like on Carbon and SA Retro. I prefer an R3 thumb row. I plan to use the "standard" R3 arrow keys, so at least the clash doesn't happen until you get to the numpad, and then only for two keycaps, so the discord will have minimal impact.

[chzel]

Oh come on...full R4 arrows are perfect...

[Muirium]

Row 2 / row 4 arrows are sublime. Full row 4… hmm… I like the up arrow to have its own feel. Full row 4 is better than all flat row 3 though, I will admit.

I realize you are measuring clash potential by proximity

Bingo! Immediately adjacent keys are the problem. I obviously don't mind about inconsistency between separate blocks, as my arrow preference gives away. But the spacebar is a very significant key indeed, surrounded by frequently used neighbours which, I for one, slide my thumb to meet. That row 3/4 ledge is going to drive me nuts! Judging by the look of it.

I plan to use the "standard" R3 arrow keys, so at least the clash doesn't happen until you get to the numpad, and then only for two keycaps, so the discord will have minimal impact.

That'll be fine. Adjacent caps are where it matters.

[zslane]

At the end of the day I agree with you, Muirium, regardless of which way I finally go with my arrow keys. I don't want to see R4 mods at the bottom until spacebars go R4 as well.

[Norman_]

With a deadline looming so close (apparently) this wouldn't be a good time to have to change around packs and rows. I'm buying for a custom layout, and i would be seriously pissed if some of those kits changed to R4 and half stayed at R3.

Just change the shifts, for now

Edit: Also, why are the shift175 all row 3? Apparently, SP has had 1.75u R4 molds for a while

[Muirium]

You're new here indeed!

[Norman_]

You're new here indeed!

Oh great, what did i say this time?

[romevi]

You're new here indeed!

Oh great, what did i say this time?

You spoke of the deadline and assumed changes couldn't be made.

[zslane]

You asked a serious question with the word "deadline" in it.

All SHIFT keys are R3 in Round 5a, presumably for consistency's sake. However, they can now all become R4.

[Norman_]

I kinda assumed the whole no longer being able to remove items is a pretty solid indication we're getting closer...

[romevi]

I kinda assumed the whole no longer being able to remove items is a pretty solid indication we're getting closer...

You can't remove, but you can always add. The Shifts may also happen and just take over where necessary.

[zslane]

Locking down the ability of customers to remove items from their orders is mostly for 7bit's convenience. He, of course, is still free to change anything (except maybe legend shapes at this point) that he feels like changing.

[jbondeson]

At the end of the day I agree with you, Muirium, regardless of which way I finally go with my arrow keys. I don't want to see R4 mods at the bottom until spacebars go R4 as well.

Well at least now we've decided what we need to nag SP about now that they've finally given us R4 Shifts!

[zslane]

SP isn't keen on making new spacebars it seems. They don't even have a 6u spacebar in SA format. The chances that they are going to start making spacebars in R4 profile is likely nil.

[McPwned]

7bit, would be it be possible to split up the HONEY/NUMROW set? I just want the white caps, and it seems like an odd grouping for leftovers. Thanks.

[jbondeson]

SP isn't keen on making new spacebars it seems. They don't even have a 6u spacebar in SA format. The chances that they are going to start making spacebars in R4 profile is likely nil.

But that's perfect! We'll never have to go through this awkward moment where we don't know what exactly to complain about to SP!

On a more serious note, let's hope the continued interest in the SA line helps persuade them to continue investing in it. If they time it right they can hit up the community for hundreds of bottom row R4 kits

[zslane]

Well, the thing about R3 vs. R4 on the bottom row is that R3 is a design choice, not a design compromise. It's not the same thing as the Shift key issue. Being stuck with R3 Shift keys on a row that should be entirely R4 is simply a deficiency of manufacturing capability (which has finally been addressed). However, an R3 bottom row is a completely valid keyset design choice, and switching to R4 wouldn't simply be a case of "repairing" some keys, it would be a case of blatantly changing someone's carefully designed set.

[gnarlsagan]

Hey guys, is the color gray used on Cadet the same color gray that is used on the regular gray (not SPH) caps?

[romevi]

Hey guys, is the color gray used on Cadet the same color gray that is used on the regular gray (not SPH) caps?

No.