Keytronic Industrial Find

Invisius · 02 Apr 2016, 22:06

Picked up a generic board and trackball this week just for the caps and steel case, but ended up with a surprise inside

The board:

Caps and spring:

Trackball:

Never seen this mount or type of reed switch before. Compgeke pointed out that some of the date codes go up to 1990, so who knows when the switches were actually made! It seems to be a case of leftover stock, but I'm not sure about the trackball variant. There's no visible reeds under those three.

Abstractions · 02 Apr 2016, 22:12

That has to be the Manliest trackball I have ever seen! Nice find on that and the keyboard!

Chyros · 02 Apr 2016, 22:29

Interesting, so they used the Butterfly switch slider and well for the magnetic reed switch. That's funny because I've also seen the butterfly switch with the magnetic reed slider on one of Seebart's boards iirc xD . Seems like the slider designs may have overlapped two-way, then.

What part of this is "generic", again? xD

zslane · 02 Apr 2016, 22:32

Wow. I love those beautiful sphericals!

seebart · 02 Apr 2016, 22:46

There is nothing "generic" about this awesome keyboard! Great find! I won't even get started on that beast of a trackball. WOW. The Key Tronic Corp. Magnetic Reed shots in our wiki and the link below look slightly different in setup but even that does not suprise me. This is a rare one. We need to add this to our Key Tronic Corp. Magnetic Reed page also, I'll get started on that soon if you don't mind Invisius. Thanks for sharing!

wiki/Key_Tronic_Corp._Magnetic_Reed

https://www.flickr.com/photos/adevriesc ... 8349882553

Invisius · 02 Apr 2016, 23:30

Thanks everyone, by generic I only meant it was very unassuming. No Keytronic branding on the outside case at all- just a few sets of initials and a 12lb chunk of steel.

The trackball definitely could be used as a deadly weapon.. I'd love to get the 9-pin serial connectors on these working on a modern machine! I'll be taking more shots once I remove the (very tightly packed) keyboard assembly. maybe the top PCB has some more clues about manufacturing.

One more thing- the caps with little windows in the corner appear to allow light through, but I don't see any LEDs on the stems. Is this common or am I missing something

seebart · 02 Apr 2016, 23:44

Well these old keyboards very often did not have any branding on the outside, especially if it was used in an industrial / commercial setting which may have been the case here judging by some of the priniting on the keycaps. Have a look at all the numbers that appear on the PCB, also look on the inside of the case for any numbers / dates. Thanks. That trackball is just as impressive.

Invisius wrote: One more thing- the caps with little windows in the corner appear to allow light through, but I don't see any LEDs on the stems. Is this common or am I missing something

If I could tell you I would. No idea.

With these type of keyboards there is little that is common.

Chyros · 03 Apr 2016, 02:02

Few old keyboards actually have very obvious branding. In the 90s brand names became more common on them, but often of the companies they were made for, not the actual OEM.

timmo · 03 Apr 2016, 02:39

Those look like must-have accessories for anybody's nuclear bunker.

XMIT · 03 Apr 2016, 03:08

Fascinating. These Key Tronic reed switch keys have the same exact mount and appearance as many foam and foil boards. I'll have to look this much harder at the recycling center next time. Thanks for sharing!

Redmaus · 03 Apr 2016, 03:42

The trackball has the same type of switches of that gas station panel you sold me XMIT.

Neat thing about these is that you can remove them via the screws without any soldering, the magnetic sensor is not attached to the switch.

berserkfan · 04 Apr 2016, 07:33

OMG

Even for a non keytronic fan like me, I am drooling over this board. Luckily I decided early on to stick only with buckling springs and Cherry MX, and avoid all other money-spending activities on other boards no matter how awesome.

Or else I would also be selling big hunks of metal like this one now. Maybe my home would have 30 cubic meters of keyboards instead of just 3.

Invisius · 05 Apr 2016, 03:26

Was able to take some of it apart today, but need to pick up some small nut drivers to remove the connectors and finish the job.

These are the wires I'm trying not to snap

Turns out that unlike the trackball, the LED-window caps do have LEDs under them!

I also measured the switches between 85g and 100g, the top function keys seem to be heaviest of all. Any of you think it's feasible to adapt this to PS/2 or USB?

Chyros · 05 Apr 2016, 09:17

HaaTa probably could xD .

ohaimark · 06 Apr 2016, 03:30

I think these deserve their own wiki page due to the classification structure that's in place. The current Key Tronic Corp. Magnetic Reed page is classified as a vertical reed; this one is a horizontal reed.

Edit: You can identify the keyswitches by listening for a light "ting" noise cause by the reeds moving together. At least that was my experience with KTC reeds.

0100010 · 08 Apr 2016, 21:09

That EEPROM is getting exposed to light...

Scottex · 09 Apr 2016, 18:36

0100010 wrote: That EEPROM is getting exposed to light...

EPROM is the kind of memory that can be erased using UV light, not EEPROM (Electrically Eraseable Programmable Read-Only Memory)

gcardinal · 10 Apr 2016, 18:03

just wow! looks amazing

Rama · 19 Apr 2016, 03:34

Wow dude, where did you score this from??
It is BEAUTIFUL.
I'd love to have a keyboard like this :O

elecplus · 19 Apr 2016, 06:43

Before you go trying to adapt those serial ports, have you tried an inexpensive serial to USB converter? I have used them to test 9-pin trackballs, mice, and one really weird joystick that actually was serial, and they all worked flawlessly. I have never tried it on a 9-pin keyboard though. If you can find a Sun monitor/terminal that took a Type 3 keyboard, those also are 9-pin serial. Even older would be some of the 8086 and 8088, maybe even an 80286 motherboard. The serial ports were commonly used for keyboards before the 5-pin DIN that IBM came out with.

Invisius · 22 Apr 2016, 03:21

Sorry guys, I've been really busy in the last week and haven't had keyboard time. I got this one from an industrial auction in Colorado, asked if they have any more and got "let me see what I can dig up"

elecplus wrote: Before you go trying to adapt those serial ports, have you tried an inexpensive serial to USB converter? I have used them to test 9-pin trackballs, mice, and one really weird joystick that actually was serial, and they all worked flawlessly. I have never tried it on a 9-pin keyboard though. If you can find a Sun monitor/terminal that took a Type 3 keyboard, those also are 9-pin serial. Even older would be some of the 8086 and 8088, maybe even an 80286 motherboard. The serial ports were commonly used for keyboards before the 5-pin DIN that IBM came out with.

Tried one I had on hand, but apparently it was a printer/parallel adapter only so no go. I picked up a new serial -> USB today, hooked into both ports on the keyboard and the trackall, but still no luck

This one is a Prolific PL2303-RA - the driver works great and I tried a few different bit settings on device manager, but I feel like I'm missing something here. http://www.prolific.com.tw/US/ShowProdu ... 25&pcid=41

Here's what I get in the test program

Is there something I need to do in Windows to set the protocol type? I do have OSX and linux machines available if that'd help troubleshoot.

Parak · 22 Apr 2016, 04:35

Note that just because a serial (RS232 specifically) looking connector is used (DB9), it doesn't mean that the protocol is RS232. Pinout and protocol might be only used on whatever obscure thing that this was made for, and trying to poke it with a different pinout might even cause some escapement of magic smoke.

Invisius · 22 Apr 2016, 04:59

Parak wrote: Note that just because a serial (RS232 specifically) looking connector is used (DB9), it doesn't mean that the protocol is RS232. Pinout and protocol might be only used on whatever obscure thing that this was made for, and trying to poke it with a different pinout might even cause some escapement of magic smoke.

So I'd need a scope to see for sure where the signals are? I only have a multimeter on-hand, but I could borrow one. No smoke or smells yet but I won't push it if you think this adapter is capable of that.

richfiles · 01 May 2016, 00:27

You can find power by using your continuity test to trace between the (-) side of a polarized electrolytic capacitor (if the board has any). That will find your ground pin on the connector. You can also try looking up datasheets for the chips. That'll find pinouts for them.

The big chip with the window Intel 8751 and 87C51 belong to MCS-51 family of 8-bit microcontrollers. The MCUs include 128 bytes of RAM and 4 KB programmable ROM. The chips also have 2 16-bit timers, 32 I/O lines, a serial port, and on-chip oscillator. The quartz window allows the contents of EPROM to be erased, and then re-programmed. Exposure to a UV lamp, sunlight, or any light source with UV light will erase the program contents if the intensity and exposure time are long enough. You should tape over the window if you have any intention of trying to preserve the program, though it could be too late already.

If the program is gone already, or you are unsure how to interface it, you also have the option of removing the big chip, and reverse engineering the pin connections to the keys. You can then wire in a Teensy 2.0 or 2.0+ in it's place.