Pet mysteries

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depletedvespene

10 Aug 2017, 05:40

Right now, my pet mistery is... where did the "Spanish (Latin America)" keyboard layout come from? Who designed it? HOW exactly is it "the official norm" in Spanish-speaking Latin American countries? Is it really?

All I know is that it's more recent than the "Spanish (Spain)" layout, but nothing else. Damn.

orihalcon

10 Aug 2017, 05:51

seebart wrote: OK so purely keyboard related?

Will we ever see a Beamspring Series1 here?
Someone who is not me (unfortunately) on deskthority does have one :)

photos-f62/ibm-4412501-4978-display-sta ... 16725.html

Yet to be seen is the one with red colored keys:
4506VV4024.jpg
4506VV4024.jpg (38.92 KiB) Viewed 1773 times

User avatar
seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

10 Aug 2017, 09:29

orihalcon wrote:
seebart wrote: OK so purely keyboard related?

Will we ever see a Beamspring Series1 here?
Someone who is not me (unfortunately) on deskthority does have one :)

Yet to be seen is the one with red colored keys:
I know I saw that, the only instance of one so far though.

unxmaal

10 Aug 2017, 18:36

I really, really want to know what happened to Soarer.

If nothing awful happened to him, it'd be really nice of him to bless any type of reverse-engineering effort for his code, or better yet, to release the source code to the community.

User avatar
Daniel Beardsmore

01 Apr 2018, 16:19

Daniel Beardsmore wrote: Are we ever likely to get the series name/part number(s) of the [wiki]Philips keyswitch[/wiki]?
We are one step closer. I found the patent on Espacenet (while trying to find a patent for the switches in the Loewe keyboard), where there is more detail. Laurence Finlayson, the inventor, was working at Pye Electro-Devices at the time, who in 1983—just before those switches went into the BBC Micro—were renamed PED:

https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/PED

So now they need to be renamed back to PED, as PED really was the manufacturer!

psl

02 Apr 2018, 00:35

I thought this was going to be a thread about Commodore PET keyboards. I demand a refund!

User avatar
Daniel Beardsmore

02 Apr 2018, 00:53

That would be "PET" not "Pet" though. Refund refused.

User avatar
Elrick

02 Apr 2018, 01:44

Myoth wrote: What happened to IvanIvanovich ? (as in this is a pet mystery to me)
Stole all the MONEY from a GMK Group Buy and disappeared but no doubt, created a NEW name/identity for himself to help alleviate his public shame/thievery. Geekhack had of course protected him because all the higher up Admins stayed quiet and removed all posts linked to his crime.

One of the most despicable shysters to ever roam Geekhack Hall of Theft and he's still protected by them. Looks like when it comes to stealing, you always need a helper and GH certainly did help him escape justice and recompense to his victims.

So this is no mystery at all when dealing with a human slime bucket, who is still protected by Geekhack, hence the Admins of that felching site need to answer for their inaction and cover-up of this despicable character.

User avatar
Blaise170
ALPS キーボード

02 Apr 2018, 15:07

Daniel Beardsmore wrote:
Daniel Beardsmore wrote: Are we ever likely to get the series name/part number(s) of the [wiki]Philips keyswitch[/wiki]?
We are one step closer. I found the patent on Espacenet (while trying to find a patent for the switches in the Loewe keyboard), where there is more detail. Laurence Finlayson, the inventor, was working at Pye Electro-Devices at the time, who in 1983—just before those switches went into the BBC Micro—were renamed PED:

https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/PED

So now they need to be renamed back to PED, as PED really was the manufacturer!
There is probably a good chance to find these in Japan since Philips was quite big over there, especially with their MSX machines.

User avatar
Daniel Beardsmore

02 Apr 2018, 16:02

What we know for certain:

1981: The patent applicant was Philips Electronics, and the inventor was Laurence Finlayson, whose address was given as c/o Pye Electro-Devices.
1983: Pye Electro-Devices is renamed PED
1984: These switches are used in the BBC Micro
19__: A parts catalogue lists the space bar, keytop set and switches as "PED"

It's hard to explain, but the catalogue is confusing. For example, it lists "Keytop set 'Comtec'" which makes no sense as Comptec made three of the four keycap types, all totally incompatible! Which type would you get if you ordered them? "Keytop Set PED" is one of the three Comptec types! (The SMK-made keyboard came with SMK's own keycaps.)

From this, it's clear that PED supplied the keyboard assembly, but then sourced the keycaps from Comptec.

So, who made the switches, Philips or PED? Were they made here in the UK in a Pye factory, or abroad in a Pye subsidiary or joint venture, or did Philips provide the manufacturing (as the owner of the Pye group at the time)?

They're so rare, that it's impossible to tell. The patent is for a centrally lit switch, that we have never seen. The torsion spring switches in the Loewe keyboard (the ones constantly mistaken for RMD 973) do appear to be Philips, as only Philips details appear on the patent for a very similar switch (same idea but with a single perimeter wire instead of a torsion spring). Those also appear in confirmed Philips products. Since PED did not use these switches, you could argue that they were Pye's own product, possibly ones that originally achieved a different set of objectives to the Philips-designed switches.

There was a patent for a Philips switch with a drawing of what looked like an MSX console, but it was some cheap plastic switch.

User avatar
Riff

04 Apr 2018, 23:57

I've considered this question.

I'm very new to the whole "keyboard love" thing (that sounded much better in my head than in print, to be fair) but having thought about it lots, the burning question is

"where the hell do I start?" :lol:

I guess I've used keyboards as a functional necessity until very recently but I remember my mother had a small publicity business and there was always interesting typewriters, composers, keyboards, duplicators, litho printing machines floating around.

I'm now approaching it more from a perspective of having a keyboard worthy of my PC (I just splashed out on a Ryzen 5 1500X with a 1060GTX) and 27" display, so seems silly to have a nasty cheap keyboard as the main input device. I'm probably more interested in customising a KB for my own needs, than the historical aspects - but as I look into this it definitely seems like a rabbit hole and an onion combined.

Lots of fun but lots to learn.

User avatar
Daniel Beardsmore

05 Apr 2018, 01:10

If you ask me such questions, you will not like the answers I give ;-)

User avatar
Riff

05 Apr 2018, 01:29

Daniel Beardsmore wrote: If you ask me such questions, you will not like the answers I give ;-)

Try me! :evilgeek: :evilgeek: :evilgeek:

User avatar
Blaise170
ALPS キーボード

05 Apr 2018, 02:01

You know, when I joined DT four years ago, I never thought I'd care about obscure, obsolete, vintage keyboards. Now look at me, I'm one of the foremost experts on vintage Japanese keyboards (maybe I should put that on my resume)! :? :lol:

User avatar
Daniel Beardsmore

05 Apr 2018, 02:37

Riff wrote: Try me! :evilgeek: :evilgeek: :evilgeek:
It would take time to provide a carefully-considered path for you, but somehow it would inevitably involve improving the wiki's completeness and comprehensiveness. That is always my primary goal for the community.

User avatar
Elrick

05 Apr 2018, 02:50

Riff wrote: I'm now approaching it more from a perspective of having a keyboard worthy of my PC (I just splashed out on a Ryzen 5 1500X with a 1060GTX) and 27" display, so seems silly to have a nasty cheap keyboard as the main input device.
Should of bought a brand new 1800X which are so dirt cheap now, it's unbelievable. It should last till this time next year when it's time again to update towards Ryzen+ series with their new X470 motherboards (bugs all worked out by then).
Riff wrote: I'm probably more interested in customising a KB for my own needs, than the historical aspects - but as I look into this it definitely seems like a rabbit hole and an onion combined.

Lots of fun but lots to learn.
Same here, but I have divested away from anything Cherry based simply because already, have too many of their tech in the house hence it's far more interesting looking at various older keyboards that are no longer produced. Have to say they are far superior in design and construction compared to the mundane garbage being produced today.

You will still have decent keyboards like Leopold, Filco and Ducky BUT they all start looking the same with casings that are all quite boring. The beauty of older keyboards are the vast differences in shape and layouts so for me personally, I appreciate all that diversity because it breaks away from the dull and mundane reality of currently produced input devices.

All the BRILLIANT stuff was produced during the late 1980's and mid 1990's so that was a real interesting period for historians to analyze and investigate keyboard usage in general.

Nice to be able to still find and use old keyboards within Trojan 10, which still surprises me.
Last edited by Elrick on 05 Apr 2018, 05:02, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Riff

05 Apr 2018, 03:40

Daniel Beardsmore wrote:
Riff wrote: Try me! :evilgeek: :evilgeek: :evilgeek:
It would take time to provide a carefully-considered path for you, but somehow it would inevitably involve improving the wiki's completeness and comprehensiveness. That is always my primary goal for the community.

Interesting response. Encourage a novice to provide in depth encyclopaedic knowledge. I think you have a cunning plan!

User avatar
digital_matthew

05 Apr 2018, 04:18

Riff wrote: ...
"where the hell do I start?" :lol:
...

Lots of fun but lots to learn.
...fall under the spell of EYEBEEEEEEMMMmmm... :evilgeek:

User avatar
JP!

05 Apr 2018, 04:55

digital_matthew wrote:
Riff wrote: ...
"where the hell do I start?" :lol:
...

Lots of fun but lots to learn.
...fall under the spell of EYEBEEEEEEMMMmmm... :evilgeek:
No! Don't do it. :!:

User avatar
Daniel Beardsmore

05 Apr 2018, 09:12

Riff wrote: Interesting response. Encourage a novice to provide in depth encyclopaedic knowledge. I think you have a cunning plan!
Same mistake everyone seems to make: to believe that they have nothing to contribute. And there it sits.

User avatar
Riff

05 Apr 2018, 17:57

Daniel Beardsmore wrote:
Riff wrote: Interesting response. Encourage a novice to provide in depth encyclopaedic knowledge. I think you have a cunning plan!
Same mistake everyone seems to make: to believe that they have nothing to contribute. And there it sits.

Don't think of it as a mistake, think of it as a lack of knowledge. Which, I hope, is a situation that can change over time :!:

User avatar
Clavius
IBM aficionado

05 Apr 2018, 18:10

JP! wrote:
digital_matthew wrote:
Riff wrote: ...
"where the hell do I start?" :lol:
...

Lots of fun but lots to learn.
...fall under the spell of EYEBEEEEEEMMMmmm... :evilgeek:
No! Don't do it. :!:
Join us brother :lol:

User avatar
Riff

06 Apr 2018, 00:06

Must...

resist...

temptatibm....

User avatar
JP!

06 Apr 2018, 01:13

Riff wrote: Must...

resist...

temptatibm....
Yes, heed my warning and reject materialism and any vestiges of capitalism.

lest this happens to you :o
Spoiler:
1.JPG
1.JPG (858.44 KiB) Viewed 1364 times

User avatar
fohat
Elder Messenger

06 Apr 2018, 01:38

Riff wrote:
seems silly to have a nasty cheap keyboard as the main input device.
An IBM Model M is the obvious place to start if you like vintage gear. A modern Filco with MX switches is probably the most standard current starting point, or a Topre Realforce if you are sufficiently flush.

Start with the basics, then branch out.

User avatar
Riff

06 Apr 2018, 10:51

JP! wrote:
Riff wrote: Must...

resist...

temptatibm....
Yes, heed my warning and reject materialism and any vestiges of capitalism.

lest this happens to you :o
Spoiler:
1.JPG

My god, it's full of keys!

User avatar
Blaise170
ALPS キーボード

06 Apr 2018, 15:38

My storage area is a mess right now, but here's a glimpse into the stuff I have. I keep saying that I'll get all of my stuff together but that seems a bit unlikely, at least for awhile.

Image

User avatar
Riff

06 Apr 2018, 17:52

I'm trying to work out why you'd need a scissor jack for a keyboard! :lol: :lol: :lol:

User avatar
Blaise170
ALPS キーボード

06 Apr 2018, 17:58

Obviously it's because I have so many keyboards that I need a jack to pick all of them up. :lol:

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Riff

06 Apr 2018, 21:18

What's the board with the pink keys? It seems to have two rows of qwerty and a trackpad too

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