BOX switches

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abrahamstechnology

03 Oct 2018, 21:20

Sorry for forgetting to update this, I am now completely sure the Wyse's caps were likely ruined by the retrobriting, not the switches (the plastic on the cap itself cracks very easily on this set that I have since got rid of)
Last edited by abrahamstechnology on 13 Mar 2019, 02:33, edited 1 time in total.

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abrahamstechnology

03 Oct 2018, 22:36

An update: I am able to remove the nubs with some pliers. It's a temporary solution for now but the keycaps still look very skewed.

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snacksthecat
✶✶✶✶

03 Oct 2018, 22:48

What a bummer man. I'm interested to hear if anyone else has given them a shot yet.

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abrahamstechnology

04 Oct 2018, 00:49

Another update: After careful shaving I have finished the board and made the keys much less skewed. It's not perfect but it's workable.
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Techno Trousers
100,000,000 actuations

04 Oct 2018, 05:05

How did you shave them? I'm looking at a stockpile of 550 jades I need to fix somehow.

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abrahamstechnology

05 Oct 2018, 00:20

Techno Trousers wrote: How did you shave them? I'm looking at a stockpile of 550 jades I need to fix somehow.
Using my pair of pliers, I squeezed gently on the nub and pulled the pliers up while still squeezing, then repeat for the other nub (see above photo). Doing this once seems to remove the nub, but doing it more than once may make them too loose. Make sure to have spare switches so you can find the way that works best for you.

davkol

05 Oct 2018, 00:24

Someone suggested installing metal keycaps on the switches in some other thread. I wonder if that works too.

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Techno Trousers
100,000,000 actuations

05 Oct 2018, 01:47

abrahamstechnology wrote:
Techno Trousers wrote: How did you shave them? I'm looking at a stockpile of 550 jades I need to fix somehow.
Using my pair of pliers, I squeezed gently on the nub and pulled the pliers up while still squeezing, then repeat for the other nub (see above photo). Doing this once seems to remove the nub, but doing it more than once may make them too loose. Make sure to have spare switches so you can find the way that works best for you.
Thanks for the recommendation. I'll give that a try. Fortunately, I have some extra box pale blues that I don't really care for, so a few of them will be sacrifices for the greater good.

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abrahamstechnology

06 Oct 2018, 21:49

Update: Many of the keycaps are heavily damaged, much worse than I first thought. I don't know if some of them are salvageable.

My caps were likely ruined by the retrobriting, not the switches (the plastic on the cap itself cracks very easily on this set that I have since got rid of)
Last edited by abrahamstechnology on 13 Mar 2019, 02:30, edited 1 time in total.

Paspie

17 Feb 2019, 01:21

abrahamstechnology wrote:
03 Oct 2018, 21:20
Kailh, I am very disappointed. I defended you...
What is the point of this trend of consumers feeling the need to 'defend' a company's problem, ostensibly out of goodwill? Is it for a sense of entitlement? If it's a culture that said companies encourage (e.g using marketing that makes consumers feel cared for) then we all need to be more conscious of it so that it does not affect our purchasing decisions.

Lbibass

17 Feb 2019, 01:58

Paspie wrote:
17 Feb 2019, 01:21
abrahamstechnology wrote:
03 Oct 2018, 21:20
Kailh, I am very disappointed. I defended you...
What is the point of this trend of consumers feeling the need to 'defend' a company's problem, ostensibly out of goodwill? Is it for a sense of entitlement? If it's a culture that said companies encourage (e.g using marketing that makes consumers feel cared for) then we all need to be more conscious of it so that it does not affect our purchasing decisions.
Okay I'm definitely making a macro of this so I can stop typing this out EVERY TIME.

Kbdfans accidentally sold old stock box switches as new stock. That's where these issues are coming from. Actually new box switches will not crack your caps.

User avatar
Elrick

21 Feb 2019, 03:09

Lbibass wrote:
17 Feb 2019, 01:58
Kbdfans accidentally sold old stock box switches as new stock. That's where these issues are coming from. Actually new box switches will not crack your caps.
The question here, is KBDFans still selling those old stock BOX switches on their website in February 2019?

If so then avoid them like the Plague but if not, then where is the proof?

Spending money on old, damaged switches that are no longer being produced is a crime for any Retail Outlet to do. Despite being located in China, they still need to follow their customers which won't be coming back to purchase anything from them again.

To stay is business you need to publicly mention what you are actually selling now, across your whole website because they're still being extremely quiet about the old BOX switch controversy.

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jani80k

22 Feb 2019, 11:19

Fair enough. The question though is - even if I get my hand on some New Stem Box Jades, will they crack my Double Shot ABS GMK Caps or not? The insecurity around this issue is huge.

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St0ckz

22 Feb 2019, 11:55

I tend to avoid the issue by not using box switches at all, given the fact they're not that good and the Kailh Speed clickies are imo better

Findecanor

22 Feb 2019, 13:11

I find Gateron Blue to be louder and more tactile than Box Navy, and they don't have an annoying click on the up-stroke.

Lbibass

22 Feb 2019, 15:11

jani80k wrote:
22 Feb 2019, 11:19
Fair enough. The question though is - even if I get my hand on some New Stem Box Jades, will they crack my Double Shot ABS GMK Caps or not? The insecurity around this issue is huge.
No, they shouldn't.

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jani80k

22 Feb 2019, 15:54

Lbibass wrote:
22 Feb 2019, 15:11
jani80k wrote:
22 Feb 2019, 11:19
Fair enough. The question though is - even if I get my hand on some New Stem Box Jades, will they crack my Double Shot ABS GMK Caps or not? The insecurity around this issue is huge.
No, they shouldn't.
Ok, I want to believe you. Still the risk is pretty darn high.

Do we have any actual examples where ABS of GMK (weakest material and tightest margin manufacturer) was not cracked by retooled BOX stems? Be it on youtube or an any forum...? I have done some research but could not find any example where someone actually took off the GMK ABS or even MAXKEY SA keycaps after some use on new stem Box switches and showed them into the camera and they were ok.

Lbibass

22 Feb 2019, 16:24

jani80k wrote:
22 Feb 2019, 15:54
Lbibass wrote:
22 Feb 2019, 15:11
jani80k wrote:
22 Feb 2019, 11:19
Fair enough. The question though is - even if I get my hand on some New Stem Box Jades, will they crack my Double Shot ABS GMK Caps or not? The insecurity around this issue is huge.
No, they shouldn't.
Ok, I want to believe you. Still the risk is pretty darn high.

Do we have any actual examples where ABS of GMK (weakest material and tightest margin manufacturer) was not cracked by retooled BOX stems? Be it on youtube or an any forum...? I have done some research but could not find any example where someone actually took off the GMK ABS or even MAXKEY SA keycaps after some use on new stem Box switches and showed them into the camera and they were ok.

there aren't photos, but you could ask the guys here. https://www.keebtalk.com/t/kailh-box-sw ... ?u=lbibass

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jani80k

22 Feb 2019, 19:06

Nice find. These guys have no issues with GMK ABS on retooled Box Stems. Perfect, thanks a lot. I guess I'm gonna have to pull the trigger on some Box Jades, now.

gianni

04 Mar 2019, 13:51

On geekhack there is ample consensus that retooled box switches still crack gmk or OG keycaps.

"all keycaps right away audibly crack on first insertion.
I notified KBDfans about the problem, they said they will take it to Kailh.. (again..)."

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=96323.400

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jani80k

04 Mar 2019, 15:25

gianni wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 13:51
On geekhack there is ample consensus that retooled box switches still crack gmk or OG keycaps.

"all keycaps right away audibly crack on first insertion.
I notified KBDfans about the problem, they said they will take it to Kailh.. (again..)."

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=96323.400
Jesus Christ, good thing I haven't ordered, yet.
I mean to be honest, the concept of box switches is tempting but it seems to take them a long time to stabilize the production quality.
Not only that you can't be sure whether you are getting retooled or not from some vendors, now it seems that even retooled ones crack some keycaps but not others.
Holding back on my box switches order until the issue is solved.

samuelcable

04 Mar 2019, 15:47

jani80k wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 15:25
gianni wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 13:51
On geekhack there is ample consensus that retooled box switches still crack gmk or OG keycaps.

"all keycaps right away audibly crack on first insertion.
I notified KBDfans about the problem, they said they will take it to Kailh.. (again..)."

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=96323.400
Jesus Christ, good thing I haven't ordered, yet.
I mean to be honest, the concept of box switches is tempting but it seems to take them a long time to stabilize the production quality.
Not only that you can't be sure whether you are getting retooled or not from some vendors, now it seems that even retooled ones crack some keycaps but not others.
Holding back on my box switches order until the issue is solved.
Honestly even if they do get fixed finally, I don't believe they are worth it. I've tried majority of them and none of them felt very good. Royals were by far the worst though

Lbibass

04 Mar 2019, 17:16

gianni wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 13:51
On geekhack there is ample consensus that retooled box switches still crack gmk or OG keycaps.

"all keycaps right away audibly crack on first insertion.
I notified KBDfans about the problem, they said they will take it to Kailh.. (again..)."

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=96323.400
Okay. I'm not sure how to tell people this in a way that they will believe me. Look at the time stamp on that post. It is October of 2018. It is a confirmed FACT that kbdfans accidentally sold old stock box switches as new, retooled ones DURING THAT TIME PERIOD. I've typed this out so many times just on my phone, that Gboard automatically came up with the rest of the above sentence.


Guys. Box switches are fixed. If you don't trust KBDfans, then fine. Don't buy from them. Buy from novelkeys. They have CONFIRMED that they have retooled box switches that are CONFIRMED TO NOT CAUSE ANY ISSUES. There have been tests, and the retooled box switches NO LONGER CRACK KEYCAPS.

Lbibass

04 Mar 2019, 17:18

samuelcable wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 15:47
jani80k wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 15:25
gianni wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 13:51
On geekhack there is ample consensus that retooled box switches still crack gmk or OG keycaps.

"all keycaps right away audibly crack on first insertion.
I notified KBDfans about the problem, they said they will take it to Kailh.. (again..)."

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=96323.400
Jesus Christ, good thing I haven't ordered, yet.
I mean to be honest, the concept of box switches is tempting but it seems to take them a long time to stabilize the production quality.
Not only that you can't be sure whether you are getting retooled or not from some vendors, now it seems that even retooled ones crack some keycaps but not others.
Holding back on my box switches order until the issue is solved.
Honestly even if they do get fixed finally, I don't believe they are worth it. I've tried majority of them and none of them felt very good. Royals were by far the worst though
They have been fixed. People are continuing to spread false information based off of one post on geekhack last October. As far as I can tell, and from all the experiments that people like WalkerStop on Reddit have performed, box switches are fixed. Just make sure you aren't buying pre-retool ones.

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jani80k

05 Mar 2019, 00:04

Yes, I think you are right.

People need to look at this comparison. At the middle of the page there is a table with measurements.

https://www.keychatter.com/2018/08/16/u ... h-debacle/

It shows that the new stems of Kailh Box Switches are thinner than Cherry MX on average.

The author also provided pictures on how to tell the old and the new stems apart - the old ones have visible knobs on them.

User avatar
Elrick

05 Mar 2019, 00:18

Lbibass wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 17:18
Just make sure you aren't buying pre-retool ones.
Easier said than done.

The retailers are NOT ever going to tell you that their stock is the cursed key-cap damaging ones.

Also now there are a lot more BOX Whites in Keyboards being offloaded onto Ebay these days. What are the odds every single one of them has the Old Stock, Key-cap Shredder Switches inside them :evilgeek:?

User avatar
jani80k

06 Mar 2019, 12:31

Elrick wrote:
05 Mar 2019, 00:18
Lbibass wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 17:18
Just make sure you aren't buying pre-retool ones.
Easier said than done.

The retailers are NOT ever going to tell you that their stock is the cursed key-cap damaging ones.

Also now there are a lot more BOX Whites in Keyboards being offloaded onto Ebay these days. What are the odds every single one of them has the Old Stock, Key-cap Shredder Switches inside them :evilgeek:?
In the US, use Novelkeys. In Europe, use Candykeys. Both are selling retooled only for sure. Even KBDFans seems to be selling retooled only nowadays.

Stay clear of ebay box switches unless you find the seller to be trustworthy.

User avatar
Elrick

07 Mar 2019, 01:48

jani80k wrote:
06 Mar 2019, 12:31
In the US, use Novelkeys. In Europe, use Candykeys. Both are selling retooled only for sure. Even KBDFans seems to be selling retooled only nowadays.

Stay clear of ebay box switches unless you find the seller to be trustworthy.
Thank you, I was never going to STOP buying any Box switches anyway ;) .

If I did get any from the old stock switches, I simply use cheap key-caps so no worries about breaking any further GMK sets.

User avatar
jani80k

07 Mar 2019, 09:25

Elrick wrote:
07 Mar 2019, 01:48
jani80k wrote:
06 Mar 2019, 12:31
In the US, use Novelkeys. In Europe, use Candykeys. Both are selling retooled only for sure. Even KBDFans seems to be selling retooled only nowadays.

Stay clear of ebay box switches unless you find the seller to be trustworthy.
Thank you, I was never going to STOP buying any Box switches anyway ;) .

If I did get any from the old stock switches, I simply use cheap key-caps so no worries about breaking any further GMK sets.
If you wanted to play it safe, you could get sth like this or this.

User avatar
jani80k

11 Mar 2019, 09:28

I ordered a Kailh Box Switch tester off of the KBDFans Website which arrived on Friday.
I can assure you that the Box Switches (one of every type there is except HAKO) in the tester were all fine.
I put some Cherry MX Browns next to them and tested them with the provided clear keycaps that come with the switch tester.
The keycaps fit the Box Switch stems more loosely than the MX Browns and Clears which proves that the Box Switches now have thinner stems than Cherry MX Switches which is a good thing.
This means that Re-Tooled Box Switches not only will not crack your keycaps anymore, they are far from it now, being not as thick as standard Cherry MX Stems.
I am posting this so people on the internet can read it in case they are unsure whether new Box Switches are safe now, like I was. Go for them!

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