Cursed model F thread
- Wazrach
- Location: Tyne and Wear, United Kingdom
- Main mouse: Razer Viper 8KHz/ Viper Mini
- Favorite switch: Buckling springs
- DT Pro Member: -
Oh cool, so the bolt mod isn't actually working now? I've been messing with the tension a few times, and now the key feel is shit regardless of how tight the bolts are. I can see in the light that the bolts have actually created dimples in the barrel frame. I don't know if this is normal for the bolt mod, or what. I also don't know if my packing foam has simply compressed fully and will not expand anymore. Really though, I'm just about fed up. I can't believe this shit. I really can't.
I ordered F122 foam from Ellipse for $60 shipped, so if this doesn't work then I'm going to take a fucking hammer to it.
I ordered F122 foam from Ellipse for $60 shipped, so if this doesn't work then I'm going to take a fucking hammer to it.
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- Location: United Kingdom
- Main keyboard: Modded IBM Model F AT
- Main mouse: Mionix Naos 8200
- Favorite switch: Capacitive Buckling Springs
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
Sorry to hear you are having trouble with your IBM Model F122 I would say remove the bolts completely then put in Ellipses foam and see how it goes good luck
- fohat
- Elder Messenger
- Location: Knoxville, Tennessee, USA
- Main keyboard: Model F 122-key terminal
- Main mouse: Microsoft Optical Mouse
- Favorite switch: Model F Buckling Spring
- DT Pro Member: 0158
You complain about money for shipping, yet numerous people have volunteered to put this together for you for the cost of round trip postage.
I think that it is about time that you send your keyboard to someone, in another country if necessary, and have them do it for you, or shut the fuck up.
It's not rocket science, and you don't even have to figure it out for yourself like most of us do.
PS - that said, I have run across the occasional 122 that is considerably more obstreperous than usual
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- Location: United Kingdom
- Main keyboard: Modded IBM Model F AT
- Main mouse: Mionix Naos 8200
- Favorite switch: Capacitive Buckling Springs
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
OK first of all you have to use relatively thick foam (3mm) otherwise the barrels closer to the centre will be extremely loose. Second thing don't use any bolts and I'm not saying this because the bolts ruin the originality. The reason I am saying this and this is from my experience from the 10 Model F Keyboards I have refurbished and none of them I have ever performed a bolt mod on. Bolt modding a Model F goes against all the engineering the Model F has for instance Model M's use melted plastic rivets and plastic deteriorates thus NEEDING bolts or screws. Model F's have the steel tabs for a reason. Doing the bolt mod on an Model F is just a waste of time and doubling your work IMO not to mention risking damaging the PCB drilling through it. As long as you use thick enough foam you will not mess up the feel.
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- DT Pro Member: -
Congratulations for the issue solved.
I'm also restoring my new "shit condition" F122 these days. For the foam replacement, I think 2mm EVA is a nice option in any way, its soft and hard, useful and cheap.
Some pics I taken, hope bit help for someone in the future:
15mm-diameter punch really help a lot:
Finally what's it looks like, far away from perfect but typing feeling awesome after whole keyboard reassembled:
I'm also restoring my new "shit condition" F122 these days. For the foam replacement, I think 2mm EVA is a nice option in any way, its soft and hard, useful and cheap.
Some pics I taken, hope bit help for someone in the future:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
- Wazrach
- Location: Tyne and Wear, United Kingdom
- Main mouse: Razer Viper 8KHz/ Viper Mini
- Favorite switch: Buckling springs
- DT Pro Member: -
I originally asked if you would be able to link the product you used, but you can never get the same stuff in the UK. I made yet another mat out of the exact stuff Fkazim mentioned, but again, it's far too firm and will not compress near the middle three tabs. Foam companies are still ignoring me when I go to them for soft, 3mm foam. I mean, how hard can it fucking be to get this material? Seriously.John Doe wrote: ↑28 May 2019, 18:24Congratulations for the issue solved.
I'm also restoring my new "shit condition" F122 these days. For the foam replacement, I think 2mm EVA is a nice option in any way, its soft and hard, useful and cheap.
Some pics I taken, hope bit help for someone in the future:
15mm-diameter punch really help a lot:Spoiler:Finally what's it looks like, far away from perfect but typing feeling awesome after whole keyboard reassembled:Spoiler:Spoiler:
I'll try the 2mm version of this, instead of 3mm: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BLACK-NEOPRE ... 2749.l2649
I did originally order replacement F122 foam from Ellipse, but I decided to change it to a down payment for a brand new F-77.
Is there not a set-in-stone way I can compress the foam near the three middle tabs under the 24 function keys? Is there not some kind of special clamp that will evenly distribute pressure there?
- Wazrach
- Location: Tyne and Wear, United Kingdom
- Main mouse: Razer Viper 8KHz/ Viper Mini
- Favorite switch: Buckling springs
- DT Pro Member: -
The bolt mod "not working" is mostly my fault, as I did rush with the thin packaging foam, which is filled with little bubbles of air. Through overtightening, I obviously crushed it completely so that it was no better than the original, disintegrated foam. I'm not sure about the huge dimples in the metal though.
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- Location: United Kingdom
- Main keyboard: Modded IBM Model F AT
- Main mouse: Mionix Naos 8200
- Favorite switch: Capacitive Buckling Springs
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
Hi Wazrach I have recently done another foam replacement on an IBM Model F XT with the 3mm neoprene foam I linked you before. If you would like I could change the foam for you and I will also be sure to let you know any tips and tricks that I discover along the way of replacing the foam.
Last edited by Fkazim on 21 Mar 2023, 18:52, edited 1 time in total.
- Wazrach
- Location: Tyne and Wear, United Kingdom
- Main mouse: Razer Viper 8KHz/ Viper Mini
- Favorite switch: Buckling springs
- DT Pro Member: -
WTF? That sounds crisp and fantastic all over. HOW?Fkazim wrote: ↑28 May 2019, 22:47Hi Wazrach I have recently done another foam replacement on an IBM Model F XT with the 3mm neoprene foam I linked you before. If you would like I could change the foam for you and I will also be sure to let you know any tips and tricks that I discover along the way of replacing the foam. Anyway here is a video below of a sound test of the IBM Model F XT with the new foam please let me know what you think.
Thanks.
Link to the sound test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mdAQ9x1NqY
I hate to ask, but would you do a full-on typing demo by actually typing on it? I'd appreciate that. It does help to get a feel for the sound better. Thanks!
- Wazrach
- Location: Tyne and Wear, United Kingdom
- Main mouse: Razer Viper 8KHz/ Viper Mini
- Favorite switch: Buckling springs
- DT Pro Member: -
Really though, nice work. That sounds amazing. What I'd give to get my XTs (I have three disassembled) and my F122 to sound as firm as that. If we're using the same stuff, I must be doing something wrong.
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- Location: United Kingdom
- Main keyboard: Modded IBM Model F AT
- Main mouse: Mionix Naos 8200
- Favorite switch: Capacitive Buckling Springs
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
Not really sure what you are doing wrong but if it helps this is how I clamped my keyboard for the reassembly see the attached image
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- IMG_20190526_184706.jpg (610.62 KiB) Viewed 5545 times
- Wazrach
- Location: Tyne and Wear, United Kingdom
- Main mouse: Razer Viper 8KHz/ Viper Mini
- Favorite switch: Buckling springs
- DT Pro Member: -
- PlacaFromHell
- Location: Argentina
- Main keyboard: IBM 3101
- Main mouse: Optical piece of shit
- Favorite switch: Beamspring
- DT Pro Member: -
You have to be very careful with them, I damaged my plates a bit using C clamps.
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- Location: United Kingdom
- Main keyboard: Modded IBM Model F AT
- Main mouse: Mionix Naos 8200
- Favorite switch: Capacitive Buckling Springs
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
Also here is an image of my Foam all cut out compared to the original top is the original IBM Foam yes NOT disintegrated surprisingly and bottom is my new foam made out of the 3mm neoprene foam.
- Attachments
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- IMG_20190523_001310.jpg (820.04 KiB) Viewed 5525 times
- Wazrach
- Location: Tyne and Wear, United Kingdom
- Main mouse: Razer Viper 8KHz/ Viper Mini
- Favorite switch: Buckling springs
- DT Pro Member: -
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- Location: United Kingdom
- Main keyboard: Modded IBM Model F AT
- Main mouse: Mionix Naos 8200
- Favorite switch: Capacitive Buckling Springs
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
Yes I also deeply scratched the back plate but that was more because the protecting foam I put slipped out as I was tightening the clamp and I did not noticePlacaFromHell wrote: ↑29 May 2019, 00:13You have to be very careful with them, I damaged my plates a bit using C clamps.
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- Location: United Kingdom
- Main keyboard: Modded IBM Model F AT
- Main mouse: Mionix Naos 8200
- Favorite switch: Capacitive Buckling Springs
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
I cut my new foam shorter so it did not interfere with the locking tabs. It really makes no difference in the firmness and the strength of the keyboard assembly.
Last edited by Fkazim on 29 May 2019, 03:35, edited 1 time in total.
- Wazrach
- Location: Tyne and Wear, United Kingdom
- Main mouse: Razer Viper 8KHz/ Viper Mini
- Favorite switch: Buckling springs
- DT Pro Member: -
Sorry, just to confirm, we're talking about the little spikes on the barrels that poke through the barrel frame?
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- Location: United Kingdom
- Main keyboard: Modded IBM Model F AT
- Main mouse: Mionix Naos 8200
- Favorite switch: Capacitive Buckling Springs
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
ah sorry I misunderstood you for those they poke their own holes as the spikes are reasonably sharp.
- Wazrach
- Location: Tyne and Wear, United Kingdom
- Main mouse: Razer Viper 8KHz/ Viper Mini
- Favorite switch: Buckling springs
- DT Pro Member: -
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- Location: United Kingdom
- Main keyboard: Modded IBM Model F AT
- Main mouse: Mionix Naos 8200
- Favorite switch: Capacitive Buckling Springs
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
yeah thats what I have done on all my IBM Model F keyboard foam changes
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- DT Pro Member: -
Wazrach wrote: ↑28 May 2019, 20:05I originally asked if you would be able to link the product you used, but you can never get the same stuff in the UK. I made yet another mat out of the exact stuff Fkazim mentioned, but again, it's far too firm and will not compress near the middle three tabs. Foam companies are still ignoring me when I go to them for soft, 3mm foam. I mean, how hard can it fucking be to get this material? Seriously.John Doe wrote: ↑28 May 2019, 18:24Congratulations for the issue solved.
I'm also restoring my new "shit condition" F122 these days. For the foam replacement, I think 2mm EVA is a nice option in any way, its soft and hard, useful and cheap.
Some pics I taken, hope bit help for someone in the future:
15mm-diameter punch really help a lot:Spoiler:Finally what's it looks like, far away from perfect but typing feeling awesome after whole keyboard reassembled:Spoiler:Spoiler:
I'll try the 2mm version of this, instead of 3mm: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BLACK-NEOPRE ... 2749.l2649
I did originally order replacement F122 foam from Ellipse, but I decided to change it to a down payment for a brand new F-77.
Is there not a set-in-stone way I can compress the foam near the three middle tabs under the 24 function keys? Is there not some kind of special clamp that will evenly distribute pressure there?
I do have the link where I get the EVA mat, hmmm, a big mat and then cut it into pieces for different ibm Fs actually, but no idea if you will be glad it's from Taobao. Good point is you could buy a huge one at once with a low cost for the mat itself, plus shipping cost still reasonable compared with the Ellipse's more perfect mat but 60$. I think I can sure this.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
- snacksthecat
- ✶✶✶✶
- Location: USA
- Main keyboard: SSK
- Main mouse: BenQ ZOWIE EC1-A
- DT Pro Member: 0205
- Contact:
Keyboard is curse how fix?
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- Location: United Kingdom
- Main keyboard: Modded IBM Model F AT
- Main mouse: Mionix Naos 8200
- Favorite switch: Capacitive Buckling Springs
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
Is that a Model F122 damn best thing I can think of is to use something like plastic weld or epoxy then paint over the repaired area.
- ZedTheMan
- Location: Central US
- Main keyboard: IModel F77/IBM 3101/Omnikey 102/96Kee
- Main mouse: Logitech G430/Logitech M570/Kensington Expert
- Favorite switch: Beamsprings. Alps SKCM Blue, Capacitive Buckling S
- DT Pro Member: 0219
Snacks, you find a disproportionate amount of cursed keyboards. I think it all comes back to the deal with the devil you made for all of those televideo keyboards.
- fohat
- Elder Messenger
- Location: Knoxville, Tennessee, USA
- Main keyboard: Model F 122-key terminal
- Main mouse: Microsoft Optical Mouse
- Favorite switch: Model F Buckling Spring
- DT Pro Member: 0158
I discussed that in my guide, and all my repairs have been successful. JB Weld is the greatest, but it is dark gray, so I used "Charcoal Gray" Dupli-Color from the auto supply store to make all my repaired cases modern and dark.
- dcopellino
- Location: Italia - Napoli
- Main keyboard: IBM 4704 F400 brushed chrome
- Main mouse: Logitech laser wired
- Favorite switch: Buckling spring
- DT Pro Member: 0229
- Contact:
Hi everyone and sorry if I ask something that might seem trivial to many veterans here. Surely I missed something in disassembling and assembling model F's early posts.
So I am going to take advantage of Fkazim's posto to ask WHY everyone here is opening and closing model F's using clamps and then have top and bottom plates slided with the help of an hammer or a even bigger clamp, if i didn't understand badly.
In my little experience with two foam replacements I find much easier and less traumatic opening and closing the assembly as if I had to open a book. Practically, I let meet the lower metallic tabs of the of the upper plate with the lower ones, slightly slanting it. Afterwards, I press the two plate approaching them in order to use the pliers for fastening the upper metallic tabs with a little twist allowing them to tightly fit together.
Given I don't think to be the only smart guy here, what do you think of my procedure? What is wrong with it? and above all which are the advantages of following the one that uses the clamps and complicates so much your lives? I don't think that the outcomes achieved with "my system" are so different from the other in terms of crispness of the click/clack pinging key press obtained at the end of the assembly.
Please let me know your thoughts about my considerations. Thanks for answering.
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- Location: UK
- Main keyboard: Planck
- Main mouse: Cyborg Rat 7
- Favorite switch: Alps skcm white
- DT Pro Member: -
i think by using clamps and forcing the backplate into the tabs rather then bending the tabs themselves means that there is no mechanical stress put on the tabs unlike what your method would involve by bending the tabs out of the way.
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- Location: United Kingdom
- Main keyboard: Modded IBM Model F AT
- Main mouse: Mionix Naos 8200
- Favorite switch: Capacitive Buckling Springs
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
Exactly and not to mention if you ever want separate the plates again by bending the tabs you risk snapping the tabs purely because of the metal fatigue.
So using clamps and a mallet is a much safer and more future proofed way of replacing the Model F foam.