Some bolt modding questions
-
- Location: United States
- DT Pro Member: -
Hey all, I'm about to embark on my first bolt mod. There are many different guides on the internet insofar as the process is concerned and it seems everyone tends to do things at least a little differently.
My question is, would you consider it easier for a first timer to only do a partial disassembly? In this video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsJvKGXGG-M
it seems this guy uses the backplate holes as a guide with which to drill. To my eyes, this seems easier than a full disassembly and drilling from the barrel plate. Or am I wrong, and this is riskier than it seems? Just a bit concerned on the best way to do this -- my M is an SSK and it isn't like I can be provided replacements from Unicomp should I crack the barrel plate, which I hear is a potential risk.
Cheers.
My question is, would you consider it easier for a first timer to only do a partial disassembly? In this video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsJvKGXGG-M
it seems this guy uses the backplate holes as a guide with which to drill. To my eyes, this seems easier than a full disassembly and drilling from the barrel plate. Or am I wrong, and this is riskier than it seems? Just a bit concerned on the best way to do this -- my M is an SSK and it isn't like I can be provided replacements from Unicomp should I crack the barrel plate, which I hear is a potential risk.
Cheers.
- kokokoy
- Location: Singapore
- Main keyboard: FC660C
- Main mouse: CST L'trac
- Favorite switch: Topre, Green Alps, Vintage Black
- DT Pro Member: 0145
Learned it the hard way, did my first bolt mod on my SSK (full disassembly) and ended up cracking the barrel plate on the center; pressed the drill to hard on the last few rivets. Luckily the cracked remained in the center and didn't reached either end. When I heard and saw the crack, it hit me, that its curved.
If I have to do it again, I'll still go with full disassembly but will remember to put support when drilling on the middle rivets. I think going full is much cleaner, gives you a chance to properly wash the plate which also ensure any of the bits of the plastic from the drilling is out at one go.
If I have to do it again, I'll still go with full disassembly but will remember to put support when drilling on the middle rivets. I think going full is much cleaner, gives you a chance to properly wash the plate which also ensure any of the bits of the plastic from the drilling is out at one go.
-
- Location: United States
- DT Pro Member: -
Appreciate the response, it's good to hear from the experience of others. Did you use a hand drill?kokokoy wrote: ↑06 Sep 2019, 05:58Learned it the hard way, did my first bolt mod on my SSK (full disassembly) and ended up cracking the barrel plate on the center; pressed the drill to hard on the last few rivets. Luckily the cracked remained in the center and didn't reached either end. When I heard and saw the crack, it hit me, that its curved.
If I have to do it again, I'll still go with full disassembly but will remember to put support when drilling on the middle rivets. I think going full is much cleaner, gives you a chance to properly wash the plate which also ensure any of the bits of the plastic from the drilling is out at one go.
The SSK I have was NIB so no cleaning (I think) should be necessary, which is one of the reasons why I'm considering only a partial disassembly.
-
- Location: United Kingdom
- Main keyboard: Modded IBM Model F AT
- Main mouse: Mionix Naos 8200
- Favorite switch: Capacitive Buckling Springs
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
I would say since your SSK is NIB just dont do any bolt mod you know the old saying if it ain't broke don't fix it but no seriously if it is NIB it will most likely have no rivets broken at all. I have done bolt mods and screw mods on IBM Model M's. One of the model M's I restored had 22 broken plastic rivets i did actually make a restoration log on that exact keyboard.
Generally with model M's if they have 3 or 4 broken plastic rivets I don't bother doing any bolt/screw modding 10 missing rivets I would say is getting to the point of needing a bolt mod. Then finally 15 to 20 missing rivets I would say bolt mod/screw mod is needed for sure.
With all this being said if you are missing some rivets and you are dead set on bolt modding it do a partial bolt mod only replacing the broken rivets but as I said above 4 or even 6 missing rivets won't do anything to the keyboards functionality
Here is the link to the restoration of one of my IBM Model M's I also show the screw/bolt mod process in that thread.
Link: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21739
Generally with model M's if they have 3 or 4 broken plastic rivets I don't bother doing any bolt/screw modding 10 missing rivets I would say is getting to the point of needing a bolt mod. Then finally 15 to 20 missing rivets I would say bolt mod/screw mod is needed for sure.
With all this being said if you are missing some rivets and you are dead set on bolt modding it do a partial bolt mod only replacing the broken rivets but as I said above 4 or even 6 missing rivets won't do anything to the keyboards functionality
Here is the link to the restoration of one of my IBM Model M's I also show the screw/bolt mod process in that thread.
Link: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21739
Last edited by Fkazim on 06 Sep 2019, 11:59, edited 1 time in total.
- Muirium
- µ
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
- Main keyboard: HHKB Type-S with Bluetooth by Hasu
- Main mouse: Apple Magic Mouse
- Favorite switch: Gotta Try 'Em All
- DT Pro Member: µ
Give the board a tilt, side to side, and listen for bits of plastic running around inside. My NIB SSK has several broken rivets. They can and will do that, all by themselves, with time.
-
- Location: United States
- DT Pro Member: -
I should have specified, even though it's NIB it's in dire need of a bolt mod. The rivets on the left side are busted as that cluster of keys is entirely unresponsive and not tactile. You can hear the many broken rivets floating around in there, like skittles.
- adamcobabe
- Location: London
- Main keyboard: Norbatouch
- Main mouse: Razer
- Favorite switch: Beamspring
- DT Pro Member: -
If you decide to do a bolt mod, I highly recommend using a soldering iron with an old sharp tip to melt some pilot holes for the drill. Use the tip to melt a bit of the plastic for each hole. If you don't, it's very easy for the drill to slip off the smooth plastic and make a janky shredded-up, poorly angled hole. Also, as others have mentioned, make sure to be super careful with the barrel plate. Depending on the generation, they can be pretty fragile. Later generation versions have beefed up supports. Early models can be folded very easily and can snap into multiple pieces. If you do end up snapping one in half (as I did) you can order replacements from Unicomp. But that kinda ruins the vintage authenticity a bit, eh.
Last edited by adamcobabe on 06 Sep 2019, 13:24, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Location: United States
- DT Pro Member: -
My SSK is from 1992, so one of the early blue labels. Unfortunately if I break the barrel plate that's probably it for me -- I contacted Unicomp about replacement parts for the SSK and they said they're all out.adamcobabe wrote: ↑06 Sep 2019, 13:20If you decide to do a bolt mod, I highly recommend using a soldering iron with a old sharp tip to melt some pilot holes for the drill. Use the tip to melt a bit of the plastic for each hole. If you don't, it's very easy for the drill to slip off the smooth plastic and make a janky shredded-up, poorly angled hole. Also, as others have mentioned, make sure to be super careful with the barrel plate. Depending on the generation, they can be pretty fragile. Later generation version have beefed up supports. Early models can be folded up very easily and can snap into multiple pieces. If you do end up snapping one in half (as I did) you can order replacements from Unicomp. But that kinda ruins the vintage authenticity a bit, eh.
- Wazrach
- Location: Tyne and Wear, United Kingdom
- Main mouse: Razer Viper 8KHz/ Viper Mini
- Favorite switch: Buckling springs
- DT Pro Member: -
I know it sounds a bit rudimentary, but surely you can just SAW the numpad off a fullsize M's barrel plate?Dikkus wrote: ↑06 Sep 2019, 13:24My SSK is from 1992, so one of the early blue labels. Unfortunately if I break the barrel plate that's probably it for me -- I contacted Unicomp about replacement parts for the SSK and they said they're all out.adamcobabe wrote: ↑06 Sep 2019, 13:20If you decide to do a bolt mod, I highly recommend using a soldering iron with a old sharp tip to melt some pilot holes for the drill. Use the tip to melt a bit of the plastic for each hole. If you don't, it's very easy for the drill to slip off the smooth plastic and make a janky shredded-up, poorly angled hole. Also, as others have mentioned, make sure to be super careful with the barrel plate. Depending on the generation, they can be pretty fragile. Later generation version have beefed up supports. Early models can be folded up very easily and can snap into multiple pieces. If you do end up snapping one in half (as I did) you can order replacements from Unicomp. But that kinda ruins the vintage authenticity a bit, eh.
-
- Location: United States
- DT Pro Member: -
I thought about that as well, though I've never done such a thing.Wazrach wrote: ↑06 Sep 2019, 13:28I know it sounds a bit rudimentary, but surely you can just SAW the numpad off a fullsize M's barrel plate?Dikkus wrote: ↑06 Sep 2019, 13:24My SSK is from 1992, so one of the early blue labels. Unfortunately if I break the barrel plate that's probably it for me -- I contacted Unicomp about replacement parts for the SSK and they said they're all out.adamcobabe wrote: ↑06 Sep 2019, 13:20If you decide to do a bolt mod, I highly recommend using a soldering iron with a old sharp tip to melt some pilot holes for the drill. Use the tip to melt a bit of the plastic for each hole. If you don't, it's very easy for the drill to slip off the smooth plastic and make a janky shredded-up, poorly angled hole. Also, as others have mentioned, make sure to be super careful with the barrel plate. Depending on the generation, they can be pretty fragile. Later generation version have beefed up supports. Early models can be folded up very easily and can snap into multiple pieces. If you do end up snapping one in half (as I did) you can order replacements from Unicomp. But that kinda ruins the vintage authenticity a bit, eh.
- Muirium
- µ
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
- Main keyboard: HHKB Type-S with Bluetooth by Hasu
- Main mouse: Apple Magic Mouse
- Favorite switch: Gotta Try 'Em All
- DT Pro Member: µ
Unicomp—incompetent as they are—do in fact sell SSK barrel plates. They just don't know what they are.
https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/CVSET
Select: Frame 84 key. I bought one myself. Sold it just recently.
As for sawing a regular barrel plate… nah. Case mods are one thing, but the barrel plate is directly involved in key feel. Sounds like a recipe for a fuck-up.
https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/CVSET
Select: Frame 84 key. I bought one myself. Sold it just recently.
As for sawing a regular barrel plate… nah. Case mods are one thing, but the barrel plate is directly involved in key feel. Sounds like a recipe for a fuck-up.
-
- Location: United States
- DT Pro Member: -
Wow, thanks. I guess the customer service guys were incorrect. Still, hopefully it doesn't come to buying oneMuirium wrote: ↑06 Sep 2019, 13:35Unicomp—incompetent as they are—do in fact sell SSK barrel plates. They just don't know what they are.
https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/CVSET
Select: Frame 84 key. I bought one myself. Sold it just recently.
As for sawing a regular barrel plate… nah. Case mods are one thing, but the barrel plate is directly involved in key feel. Sounds like a recipe for a fuck-up.
One of the other reasons I want to do this on a partial disassembly -- like on the video I showed -- is that I've heard it gives the barrel plate some more support while working on it.
- adamcobabe
- Location: London
- Main keyboard: Norbatouch
- Main mouse: Razer
- Favorite switch: Beamspring
- DT Pro Member: -
If you're only doing a partial mod, then a partial disassembly is obviously the only way. Full disassembly gives you the ability to clean the barrel plate better. It also makes it possible to cut the leftover rivets flush. Super dusty specimens are hard to clean between all the barrels. Blue badge models should have the drainage channels and extra supports. It'll probably be much less fragile than a first gen.
One other suggestion. If the rivets under the back sticker are broken, don't try to completely remove the label. It always goes wrong. You'll just destroy the sticker and scratch up the metal. I'd recommend just shaving off a section of the sticker to get to the broken rivets instead. Trust me, much less ugly.
One other suggestion. If the rivets under the back sticker are broken, don't try to completely remove the label. It always goes wrong. You'll just destroy the sticker and scratch up the metal. I'd recommend just shaving off a section of the sticker to get to the broken rivets instead. Trust me, much less ugly.
-
- Location: United States
- DT Pro Member: -
Thanks for the advice, it's very helpful.adamcobabe wrote: ↑06 Sep 2019, 14:08If you're only doing a partial mod, then a partial disassembly is obviously the only way. Full disassembly gives you the ability to clean the barrel plate better. It also makes it possible to cut the leftover rivets flush. Super dusty specimens are hard to clean between all the barrels. Blue badge models should have the drainage channels and extra supports. It'll probably be much less fragile than a first gen.
One other suggestion. If the rivets under the back sticker are broken, don't try to completely remove the label. It always goes wrong. You'll just destroy the sticker and scratch up the metal. I'd recommend just shaving off a section of the sticker to get to the broken rivets instead. Trust me, much less ugly.
- Wazrach
- Location: Tyne and Wear, United Kingdom
- Main mouse: Razer Viper 8KHz/ Viper Mini
- Favorite switch: Buckling springs
- DT Pro Member: -
I haven't dealt with them all that much, but the staff are extremely friendly and helpful. Troy spent a lot of time helping me customise my keyset. I'll be showing it off soon when I get the (hopefully) painted case from the autoshop.
- fohat
- Elder Messenger
- Location: Knoxville, Tennessee, USA
- Main keyboard: Model F 122-key terminal
- Main mouse: Microsoft Optical Mouse
- Favorite switch: Model F Buckling Spring
- DT Pro Member: 0158
Yes you absolutely can. Make a clean cut and it works fine.
Also, even if it is cracked somewhat, the new screws will keep it all tight and together.
- fohat
- Elder Messenger
- Location: Knoxville, Tennessee, USA
- Main keyboard: Model F 122-key terminal
- Main mouse: Microsoft Optical Mouse
- Favorite switch: Model F Buckling Spring
- DT Pro Member: 0158
I have tried that method, but it pushes up a rim of plastic that may or not be balanced.adamcobabe wrote: ↑06 Sep 2019, 13:20
I highly recommend using a soldering iron with an old sharp tip to melt some pilot holes for the drill.
Easier and more precise is to use the smallest spherical burr tip in your Dremel.
- adamcobabe
- Location: London
- Main keyboard: Norbatouch
- Main mouse: Razer
- Favorite switch: Beamspring
- DT Pro Member: -
Nice! If you have a Dremel, that's a good idea.fohat wrote: ↑06 Sep 2019, 15:00I have tried that method, but it pushes up a rim of plastic that may or not be balanced.adamcobabe wrote: ↑06 Sep 2019, 13:20
I highly recommend using a soldering iron with an old sharp tip to melt some pilot holes for the drill.
Easier and more precise is to use the smallest spherical burr tip in your Dremel.
-
- Location: United States
- DT Pro Member: -
What do you think about drilling from the holes in the backplate? To my eyes that seems like it would be easier than drilling into slippery plastic. I mean, the holes are already there for you to guide yourself, right?fohat wrote: ↑06 Sep 2019, 15:00I have tried that method, but it pushes up a rim of plastic that may or not be balanced.adamcobabe wrote: ↑06 Sep 2019, 13:20
I highly recommend using a soldering iron with an old sharp tip to melt some pilot holes for the drill.
Easier and more precise is to use the smallest spherical burr tip in your Dremel.
- fohat
- Elder Messenger
- Location: Knoxville, Tennessee, USA
- Main keyboard: Model F 122-key terminal
- Main mouse: Microsoft Optical Mouse
- Favorite switch: Model F Buckling Spring
- DT Pro Member: 0158
I learned the Sandy55 method and that is what I have always done.
In that scenario, after cutting off the broken end of the rivet, you want to shave the top of the "mesa" into a smooth flat plane. That shaft is perhaps 3 mm in diameter, and you are looking to drill out a 1.5mm hole through the center to create a hollow cylinder for your 2mm machine screw to go in.
Drilling blind into a rough surface that was obscured by sheet metal would be very hard to do precisely unless you have a very accurate drill press (I don't), but if you aren't concerned with preserving the integrity of the shafts or the alignment "crescents" (Sandy's term) then a crude screw addition would work.
- adamcobabe
- Location: London
- Main keyboard: Norbatouch
- Main mouse: Razer
- Favorite switch: Beamspring
- DT Pro Member: -
Yeah, I personally think it would be much harder with the backplate attached. The hole you are drilling is quite small, much smaller than the opening in the backplate. It won't guide you in any way or help you drill straighter.Dikkus wrote: ↑06 Sep 2019, 15:14What do you think about drilling from the holes in the backplate? To my eyes that seems like it would be easier than drilling into slippery plastic. I mean, the holes are already there for you to guide yourself, right?fohat wrote: ↑06 Sep 2019, 15:00I have tried that method, but it pushes up a rim of plastic that may or not be balanced.adamcobabe wrote: ↑06 Sep 2019, 13:20
I highly recommend using a soldering iron with an old sharp tip to melt some pilot holes for the drill.
Easier and more precise is to use the smallest spherical burr tip in your Dremel.
- swampangel
- Location: Canada
- Main keyboard: Northgate Omnikey 101
- DT Pro Member: -
I think it's fine to leave the backplate attached, but it's true that it won't help you at all.adamcobabe wrote: ↑06 Sep 2019, 15:32Yeah, I personally think it would be much harder with the backplate attached. The hole you are drilling is quite small, much smaller than the opening in the backplate. It won't guide you in any way or help you drill straighter.
I've done a partial screw mod (leaving the backplate on, only drilling to replace broken rivets, freehand with a hand drill) and it's very easy to mess up, have the drill slide to the side, and make that particular rivet location unusable for a screw.
This isn't a huge deal -- there are plenty of rivet locations and the screws give you pretty fine control over the tension -- but you really should use the dremel or soldering iron strategy to prepare the rivet locations first. And make sure to tape off your drill bit at the appropriate depth if you don't want to drill straight through the plate.
More info here if you haven't seen it viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9169&start=
- JP!
- Location: United States
- Main keyboard: Currently a Model M
- Main mouse: Steel Series Sensei
- Favorite switch: Beam Spring
- DT Pro Member: 0194
- Contact:
Seriously...#$%! I have a pretty much nos ssk with a crack all the way through the center of the barrel plate.
Edit: I didn't read the other posts
Muirium wrote: ↑06 Sep 2019, 13:35Unicomp—incompetent as they are—do in fact sell SSK barrel plates. They just don't know what they are.
https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/CVSET
Select: Frame 84 key. I bought one myself. Sold it just recently.
As for sawing a regular barrel plate… nah. Case mods are one thing, but the barrel plate is directly involved in key feel. Sounds like a recipe for a fuck-up.
-
- Location: United States
- DT Pro Member: -
So I did the disassembly today, which was relatively painless, but once I got to the barrel plate I realized -- just my luck -- there's already a crack in it. This is before drilling.
Pic:
Do you guys think I can still work with this, or should I just get a new one from Unicomp?
Pic:
Do you guys think I can still work with this, or should I just get a new one from Unicomp?
- JP!
- Location: United States
- Main keyboard: Currently a Model M
- Main mouse: Steel Series Sensei
- Favorite switch: Beam Spring
- DT Pro Member: 0194
- Contact:
Get a replacement but use this one for practice.
- Wazrach
- Location: Tyne and Wear, United Kingdom
- Main mouse: Razer Viper 8KHz/ Viper Mini
- Favorite switch: Buckling springs
- DT Pro Member: -
There's no reason why it shouldn't work - I suppose it's like a crack in the case. It's there, you know about it, it will probably bug you, but won't affect the usability of the keyboard.