deskthority

mike52787 wrote: FWIW Back in the day when I had one of these I tried to fit it into a normal model m case. No go. It's definitely not ibm made, its just a question as to why they decided to clone a model M instead of making their own boards like every other manufacturer did back in the day.

Given the fact that the keyboard is branded IBM, it is a fake copy if not IBM made. Clearly, IBM keyboards were much more expensive than other brands during 1980s.

neozhou wrote: Wow..what is your NIB Model M? 1390120 or 1390131? I'm jealous of you

It says on the rear of the keyboard, with what looks like a clear laminated, paper label - Part No - 1390131.

Unusual to see a clear coating applied to a paper label because most other Model-Ms I bought over the years, just had ordinary paper that was either damaged slightly or about to come off.

Every 1390131 that I have owned is buckling springs.

elecplus wrote: Every 1390131 that I have owned is buckling springs.

And is still the very BEST switch to use daily .

As we know these have shown up more than once before which suggests that they are not "fake". Furthermore looking at the elaborate packaging with this NIB'sh one it would have to be one hell of a "fake". Everything looks very real. Possibly a drop-in replacement for the asian market? No idea.

seebart wrote:
As we know these have shown up more than once before

And pretty much every previous specimen has been nasty and disgusting.

Knowing that something like this can exist new-in-box has created a new unicorn for me to dream about.

Fake IBM but real Alps? Not a problem to me!

PS - I have never seen a black IBM SDL cable with PS/2 connection rather than AT

fohat wrote: PS - I have never seen a black IBM SDL cable with PS/2 connection rather than AT

Come to think of it me neither, more weirdness.

I have to say, this is spectacular. How much did you pay for it?

I mean, holy crap! NIB Blue Alps!

seebart wrote: As we know these have shown up more than once before which suggests that they are not "fake".

Why would the quantity justify that it's not a fake ?

seebart wrote: Possibly a drop-in replacement for the asian market? No idea.

But then why wouldn't it have the regular asian layout ?

Myoth wrote: Why would the quantity justify that it's not a fake ?

In this case it's more the whole package but you are right it does not rule anything out, like I said before IF this one is fake it's a pretty elaborate good fake.

You think it would be easy to produce something like this? Think about that...and look at all the documentation etc.

The more I look at neozhou's pictures the less I think it's a fake.

This is whats known as an anomaly a.k.a. what the f*ck.

JP! wrote: This is whats known as an anomaly a.k.a. what the f*ck.

seebart wrote:

Myoth wrote: Why would the quantity justify that it's not a fake ?

In this case it's more the whole package but you are right it does not rule anything out, like I said before IF this one is fake it's a pretty elaborate good fake.

You think it would be easy to produce something like this? Think about that...and look at all the documentation etc.

The more I look at neozhou's pictures the less I think it's a fake.

FYI it doesnt fit into a regular M case. Why would IBM themselves make a separate case design? Here's my hypothesis. IBM only sold buckling spring units. Some geniuses in Taiwan bought brand new model ms, removed the keyboard, sold the keyboard as new without packaging, inserted their own cheaper clones, resealed the box and sold them as new.

That's an interesting theory. Perhaps take out the original keyboard, sell as new or bundled with a complete system. Next purchase replacement keyboard cases, insert cloned parts, reseal the original box and resell as a nib keyboard. Also it seems quite odd that the case does not have a part number stickered to the bottom.

fohat wrote:

seebart wrote:
As we know these have shown up more than once before

And pretty much every previous specimen has been nasty and disgusting.

Knowing that something like this can exist new-in-box has created a new unicorn for me to dream about.

Fake IBM but real Alps? Not a problem to me!

PS - I have never seen a black IBM SDL cable with PS/2 connection rather than AT

IS it PS/2? It looks AT to me Oo .

Man this looks like the perfect keyboard lol. Too bad its prob a clone.

Looks like a period correct AT cable to me also. Also if it is a clone, it is still damn cool and has nice switches.

mike52787 wrote: FYI it doesnt fit into a regular M case. Why would IBM themselves make a separate case design? Here's my hypothesis. IBM only sold buckling spring units. Some geniuses in Taiwan bought brand new model ms, removed the keyboard, sold the keyboard as new without packaging, inserted their own cheaper clones, resealed the box and sold them as new.

OK I did not know that, good point. Most likely a clone then. But a good one.

Chyros wrote: IS it PS/2? It looks AT to me Oo .

I does look AT you're right.

Clone or not, it's still a very cool keyboard. I'd love to have one in my collection just the same. Thanks for sharing the pics.

Since the PCB board is flat, I am assuming the key stems are longer at the top/bottom because of the curve in the keyboard case?

JP! wrote: Looks like a period correct AT cable to me also. Also if it is a clone, it is still damn cool and has nice switches.

As long as you can connect it and use it on any of today's PC's, then it's a PURE win for the owner.

Onya for sharing such a truly unique Keyboard that most experts here on DT, have thought was an illusion .

Definitely a big thank you for sharing this. I don't have a favorite theory about what or why it is, but it's very interesting. In all my years in the surplus electronics biz I never saw one of these, and I definitely would have noticed it. The internal XT/AT jumper is unusual, and suggests this wasn't sold (in IBM or "other" form) as an aftermarket item. Almost all aftermarket boards of the period had external switching for that, either dip switches or a slide switch.

I'm wondering out loud if some research into the IBM XT/286 model might shed some light on this? I have some IBM tech references packed away; I'll see if I can dig those out when I have a bit of time.

A couple months back there was a likely counterfeit IBM computer and keyboard posted from an ebay listing, and that one was very obviously built from generic clone pieces. But it also had some IBM features including a dish or curve to the key cap profile. And it did not have a detachable cord, and was almost certainly not Alps-based. And the fake IBM badges were made to fit the clone keyboard and case.

Polecat wrote: Definitely a big thank you for sharing this. I don't have a favorite theory about what or why it is, but it's very interesting. In all my years in the surplus electronics biz I never saw one of these, and I definitely would have noticed it. The internal XT/AT jumper is unusual, and suggests this wasn't sold (in IBM or "other" form) as an aftermarket item. Almost all aftermarket boards of the period had external switching for that, either dip switches or a slide switch.

I'm wondering out loud if some research into the IBM XT/286 model might shed some light on this? I have some IBM tech references packed away; I'll see if I can dig those out when I have a bit of time.

A couple months back there was a likely counterfeit IBM computer and keyboard posted from an ebay listing, and that one was very obviously built from generic clone pieces. But it also had some IBM features including a dish or curve to the key cap profile. And it did not have a detachable cord, and was almost certainly not Alps-based. And the fake IBM badges were made to fit the clone keyboard and case.

Indeed - that one looks like a keytronic foam and foil board.

snuci wrote: Clone or not, it's still a very cool keyboard. I'd love to have one in my collection just the same. Thanks for sharing the pics.

Since the PCB board is flat, I am assuming the key stems are longer at the top/bottom because of the curve in the keyboard case?

yeah, that's how it is. the stems on the f row are comically long. even longer than those on the apple aek.

mike52787 wrote:

snuci wrote: Clone or not, it's still a very cool keyboard. I'd love to have one in my collection just the same. Thanks for sharing the pics.

Since the PCB board is flat, I am assuming the key stems are longer at the top/bottom because of the curve in the keyboard case?

yeah, that's how it is. the stems on the f row are comically long. even longer than those on the apple aek.

This is true. If a keycap is broken, it would be hard to find a replacement keycap. Also, as I remember, the letters are pad printed, not dye-sub.

arkanoid wrote:
This is true. If a keycap is broken, it would be hard to find a replacement keycap. Also, as I remember, the letters are pad printed, not dye-sub.

Yup, they are pad printed abs. I think I may still have a few of the caps lying around if I didn't throw them away.

Yes, they were made cheap considering the age they were made. Blue alps was a common clicky switch in 1986/87 when IBM 1390120/131s were made. There was no white Alps switch came out. Probably, Alps clone switches were not developed either? and Cherry switches were as much expensive as the Alps.

Wow, this is really cool. I'd love to see shots of the inside of the top and bottom halves of this case, side by side with one of the (genuine) buckling spring Model M cases. There are certainly differences if a buckling spring internal assembly won't fit.

I just find this... whatever it is... endlessly fascinating. I weighed in on the thrashed ones by saying I thought for sure they were counterfeits. But they sure look awfully well constructed, packed, and accessories for fakes.

Techno Trousers wrote: But they sure look awfully well constructed, packed, and accessories for fakes.

Even if any were in fact "fakes" why would that make them worth anything less?

If they do in fact perform fully with the switches and hardware used, then they have fulfilled their purpose. I would dare say that the so-called "Fakes" could well be worth more particularly now when so much that we knew about previous model releases, has been turned upside down.

That is where all keyboard collecting should be, questions the standard knowledge and delivers something weird from left field, that surprises and enlivens this whole debate about certain model(s) of keyboards.

Good to know that the IBM family has a much less known 'blue' cousin, which in time may prove to be far more valuable than the traditional Buckling Spring releases .

"The fake is of far greater value. In its deliberate attempt to be real, it's more real than the real thing."

-Kaiki Deishu

Persoanally I don't collect any clones or "fakes" so to me it's more of an interesting oddity to me, if I did buy it I'd sell it. When I buy IBM keyboards I want actual IBM keyboards not strange clones or fakes. Interesting no more.