deskthority

I was piddling around on Ebay and a couple of Topre clones popped up. Not sure if anyone else has run across these, but I searched the forum and could not find any results for the keyboard brands.

Hansung CHL8 HappyTypist 50g

ABKO Hacker K965P Electro-Capacitive (topre similar) No-LED PBT Waterproof (!!!)

ABKO HACKER K985P White RGB PBT LED USB Keyboard

EDIT: GH was at least aware of the Hansung a few months ago.

Looking at the sliders on the Hansung, they seem to be about the same as what I have seen on the Plum and Noppoo electrostatic capacitive topre-clone keyboards.

I've noticed these on Aliexpress and Taobao at $90-130 for a while now, about time resellers over here got a hold of them.
I wonder if they're actually half decent clones. At that price I'd actually want one for quiet work!

Well, i wouldn't call them "resellers over here" because the sellers seem to be located in South Korea, but are listing them for international sale on ebay.com. I have not seen them on Aliexpress, and I tend to check Aliexpress quite often. I trust that site way more than Taobao, as Aliexpress is publicly traded company marketing directly to Westerners and has a firm delivery policy.

Didn't even notice the seller location. Aliexpress is also much stricter about clone and knockoff products, and removes them pretty quickly now. Yea Taobao is much more of a wild west, but there's some good stuff to be found.

https://world.taobao.com/item/532230604655.htm
https://world.tmall.com/item/43276639259.htm

Oh yea, I am familiar with the Plum and Royal Kludge products, and I would not be surprised if all these clones use the same switches.. I actually own a Plum 84 35g myself. I think it is a decent keyboard for the price. Does not feel as quality as a Topre switch, but the key weighting is consistent.

Hmm interesting, so these are worth their price?

Still to much to salvage sliders!

seebart wrote: Hmm interesting, so these are worth their price?

I would guesstimate that the Hansung is worth the price, if it didn't cost $50 in shipping. The ABKO seem ridiculously overpriced, but probably are much more affordable off Taobao or a similar direct-from-China online retailer.

As an owner of a Plum Topre clone, I think they are worth the price. If you like the lights of Las Vegas on your keyboard, I've also heard the Royal Kludge products are perfectly serviceable.

I do have a Realforce Variable Force in the mail, so I am excited to compare the genuine Topre and Topre clone right next to each other. Even with my little Realforce 23U numpad, you can feel the difference in quality of materials and construction. The Topre clones are not terrible, but it is easy to discern where corners might have been cut.

cookie wrote: Still to much to salvage sliders!

I thought that I read somewhere that Cooler Master would begin selling the sliders separately, so the savior is upon us!

They are out of stock though!

cookie wrote: They are out of stock though!

Fire up the machinery and get those things cooking again!

Even though I find 35€ a bit expensive for slider!!! I'd go for 2 sets

I did not know that they were selling the sliders! Aren't they a bit useless for Topre boards as the stabiliser inserts won't fit them?

vivalarevolución wrote: I do have a Realforce Variable Force in the mail, so I am excited to compare the genuine Topre and Topre clone right next to each other. Even with my little Realforce 23U numpad, you can feel the difference in quality of materials and construction. The Topre clones are not terrible, but it is easy to discern where corners might have been cut.

Looking foreward to your comparison!

The question of "is it worth it for the price?" is an interesting one. Since I don't value, at all, a rubberdome switch that is in any way inferior to a genuine Topre switch, there is no price point low enough to make these cheap knock-offs "worth it" to me.

My experience with the Noppoo EC108 Pro demonstrated to me that I might as well stick with MX reds since the Noppoo offers no improvement in typing feel over my Filcos and Varmilos. Those "40g" Noppoo switches feel more like cheap 30g linear switches, not Topre clones. And the overall construction of the board is pretty poor; e.g., the switches aren't all level in height, making some keys sit higher than others. Just bad all around.

I've found that in life, high quality is usually worth the extra cost. Alas, not everyone can afford high quality. That means Topres are overpriced for some, but not for others, even though the quality is the same (very high) regardless.

The interest in a Topre clone, for me at least, derived from the options that are not available in a genuine Topre keyboard. For example, 35g switches in an ANSI layout, programmability, backlighting, and greater variety of layouts. The price is nice, too. I did find the 35g Plum switches to be almost linear at first, but my fingers have adjusted and the tactility is more pronounced to create a unique switch feel.

When compared with genuine Topre, they fall short in many categories. I do not consider the clones as equal, competing products, but more so an obvious low cost knock-off attempt. I agree, high quality is worth the price, you get what you pay for. But in this case, the high quality had less desirable options for my personal preferences, so I knowingly went with lower quality.

Now if I find the Realforce keyboard on the way to my front door to be satisfactory, I will enthusiastically join in the the Topre clone bashing!

vivalarevolución wrote: But in this case, the high quality had less desirable options for my personal preferences, so I knowingly went with lower quality.

I hear ya. I don't use Topre boards either, and for the same reasons. However, rather than spend my money on inferior Topre clones, I just stick with simple MX reds. More board choices that way.

Of course, once Topre starts shipping their MX-stemmed Topre board, I will be lining up to buy one or two of those. I have great hopes for that product.

Personally, I hope Topre-clones will get their act together more quickly and produce a comparable product at a much lower cost than Topre are now. I think much of the price that we now pay for Topre goes into either the branding or salvaging another part of Topre Corp.'s business. For all I currently know, they're great product, but patently not worth $225. In fact, I find it hard to believe that any keyboard still in production warrants a $225 price tag; keyboards out of production are another matter, though.

y11971alex wrote: Personally, I hope Topre-clones will get their act together more quickly and produce a comparable product at a much lower cost than Topre are now. I think much of the price that we now pay for Topre goes into either the branding or salvaging another part of Topre Corp.'s business. For all I currently know, they're great product, but patently not worth $225. In fact, I find it hard to believe that any keyboard still in production warrants a $225 price tag; keyboards out of production are another matter, though.

I do not think that Topre uses the keyboard business to cover losses in other parts and I do not think that they are banking on fans to keep being faithful.
They are a huge corporation that have all kinds of technology patents and products besides keyboard tech: metal press forming, refrigeration and air conditioning, touch screen/panel (which is actually their core tech).
The Realforce TKL is priced ok-ish in Japan (about 170 USD), but the licensed keyboards (see Leopold FC660C, HHKB) are overpriced, because of the licensing. One other exampl of licensing price increase are the JustSystems Keyboards
One thing that Topre does very well, even with Chinese made licensed keyboards (FC660C) is quality control and build quality. I opened my FC660C 3 times and this thing is put together extremely well.
The reason why Realforce TKL and HiPro (and some others) are so expensive is that they are made in Japan. The main effect of this are higher manufacturing costs (better QA, higher salaries, higher raw materials costs, etc). Also, the Chinese made keyboards first go to Japan where they have to pass QA and only then are sold to customers (this is written on the Leopold's label).
Also, from what I understand, the main consumers for Topre keyboards are Japanese government institutions and companies. Which could explain very well why they are reserved to sell them overseas and why they have kept the same classic no-frills design for all this time
So, the higher manufacturing costs + the fact that Topre does not really want to sell their keyboards overseas = higher prices for the average Joe consumer.
They have started to take notice though, or they would not have started showing new keyboards at Tech shows (I.E.: Computex 2016).
And let's put it this way: how many times have you read/heard about Topre keyboards that have failed, had manufacturing defects, faulty electronics, etc?
But with all these Chinese clones, it's only a matter of time until some of them will equal Topre in feel and maybe in quality.

Stabilized wrote: I did not know that they were selling the sliders! Aren't they a bit useless for Topre boards as the stabiliser inserts won't fit them?

There is such thing called Dremel

zslane wrote: I've found that in life, high quality is usually worth the extra cost. Alas, not everyone can afford high quality. That means Topres are overpriced for some, but not for others, even though the quality is the same (very high) regardless.

I often have the feeling that people who cry the most about Topre not worth the money, are those who spend their kids collage savings on caps...

@derzemel: This is what I constantly preach to the Razer-Loving infidels

Great response, derzemel. I doubt the clones will rival Realforce build quality anytime soon, as the discount pricing is one of the main selling points and that pricing requires some sacrifices on build quality and QA.

Out of all the off-the-shelf keyboards I have opened up over the years, Realforce is the most impressive in build quality. The attention paid to the little details is what impresses me the most. No shortcuts were taken.

vivalarevolución wrote: Great response, derzemel. I doubt the clones will rival Realforce build quality anytime soon, as the discount pricing is one of the main selling points and that pricing requires some sacrifices on build quality and QA.

Out of all the off-the-shelf keyboards I have opened up over the years, Realforce is the most impressive in build quality. The attention paid to the little details is what impresses me the most. No shortcuts were taken.

Really depend on the labour/parts cost ratio. I don't know any details, though.

seebart wrote:

vivalarevolución wrote: I do have a Realforce Variable Force in the mail, so I am excited to compare the genuine Topre and Topre clone right next to each other. Even with my little Realforce 23U numpad, you can feel the difference in quality of materials and construction. The Topre clones are not terrible, but it is easy to discern where corners might have been cut.

Looking foreward to your comparison!

The Realforce Variable Force arrived in the mail today (a couple days earlier than expected!). I cannot offer much of a comparison because my 35g Plum 84 is at my workplace. I will say that 30g Topre switches basically feel linear. The differences in quality are quite obvious. I probably will do a long review in the review section.

Lets face it, RF/HHKBs are just awesome to type on. I simply love them!

cookie wrote: Lets face it, RF/HHKBs are just awesome to type on. I simply love them!

But where is my backlighting?

I owned an HHKB for a couple weeks. Just not robust enough for my tastes. I love myself a solid metal plate and arrow keys.

Also tried out the Novatouch a couple of times. Whatever they did to that thing to make it feel considerably worse than a Realforce, that needs to be fixed. But that topic has been discussed to death, so I will stop.

vivalarevolución wrote: Also tried out the Novatouch a couple of times. Whatever they did to that thing to make it feel considerably worse than a Realforce, that needs to be fixed. But that topic has been discussed to death, so I will stop.

they used cheap flimsy thin ABS plastic for the case and the keycaps. The internals and plate are made by Topre anyway, so no lack of quality there.

derzemel wrote:

vivalarevolución wrote: Also tried out the Novatouch a couple of times. Whatever they did to that thing to make it feel considerably worse than a Realforce, that needs to be fixed. But that topic has been discussed to death, so I will stop.

they used cheap flimsy thin ABS plastic for the case and the keycaps. The internals and plate are made by Topre anyway, so no lack of quality there.

Maybe it was the standard Coolermaster case that turned me off...
But even with great keycaps the Novatouch did not manage to win me over. That board was unbearable without silencing. I did silence it later but... still a world of difference between it and the touring variable Realforce 104.
Looking forward to trying a HHKB some day just to see how much of a difference the plastic plate makes...

A colleague at work recently got himself a Novatouch and it was the first time I was able to use one myself. I was sceptical about the reports that it felt different to the Realforce and HHKB but it turns out they were well founded in the end. There's just something off about the Novatouch to me and I can't put my finger on it (no pun intended). Of course, the first thing my mate did was switch the caps to some dye-sub PBT and although that improved it, it's definitely got a shakier overall feel when compared to an HHKB or Realforce.

On the topic of knock-off Topre keyboards...I think it's only going to get worse, especially if the RGB Realforce starts to gain traction and generates more interest for Topre in the gaming crowd. There will be more people trying to see what the fuss is all about and going for these terrible Spud Murphy off-brand shitbox keyboards in order to save a bit of coin.

The Novatouch felt mushy to me rather than tactile and snappy, as Topre is supposed to feel. I know that some individuals have lubed and modified the switches to improve the feel, but I am not interested in doing that.

I don't know what direction we will see for Topre and the Topre clones, but my observations tell me that price is a stronger motivator than overall quality in keyboard purchases for many people. But perhaps the competition and bigger potential market will push Topre towards some innovation without sacrificing quality (keyboard knobs, anyone?!) and everybody wins.

I prefer to call it the MX RealForce. After all, It is the MX stems that make that board exciting to me. The fact that it will have RGB LED backlighting is a feature I will simply try to ignore/forget.